Tyrone - Where to now?

bald eagle wrote:2 more Tyrone greats joined Dooher in retirement as McGuigan and Jordan hang up the Red Hand shirt for 2012. They owe Tyrone nothing but what does their departure mean for Tyrone in the future? Who will be next as the great Tyrone team are slowly being dismantled? Perhaps our Tyrone posters have joined them in retirement?

Sad to see great players call it a day and yes they no one anything. Although they caused us heartache I respect them as greats. Happy retirement boys don't rule out Tyrone's return to the top because Micky can now plan a team without having being loyal to the old guard.

cant say i am that surprised by the news, just surprised it took so long for either to reach the decision. And i think they wont be the last.

What both these men have given to Tyrone football is immeasurable, the commitment the sacrifices the hard work and graft over the last 14-15 years. They owe us nothing. Brian in particular has had a number of serious setbacks to overcome and its a credit to him that he came back time and time again.

Philip on the other hand was quite fortunate to avoid serious injury and played in almost every championship game under Mickey. That said with what he put his body through it is likely pain and suffering may not be too far away as he settles into retirement, he has had bother with groin and hip injuries. One of the most consistent footballers i ever seen play he was Mr Dependable in the Tyrone team and not too many forwards can say they got the better of him too often.

In some ways it now forces Mickeys hand in terms of bringing on the next bunch of players, had these guys hung about i have no doubt Mickey would have picked them next year, so whilst its sad to see them go after all they have given it will be interesting to see if the next generation can prove to be as good as these guys were.

Enjoy the retirement lads you've earned it.

Two wonderful footballers, both of whom, and this is rare, leave the scene with the medals and awards that their talents and commitment deserved. McGuigan has 7 all-ireland winning medals (3 Senior AI, 2 U21 AI, Minor AI, Hogan Cup), which must put him near the top of the tree for all footballers in the last 25 years or so.

Brian was a hugely gifted footballer, and his skill/vision was matched by his workrate, and he was brilliant on the broken ball. I'm virtually 100% certain that, from 2003-2006, Tyrone never lost a game in which he played at least 55 minutes. He was Tyrone's best player, when the side itself were at their best. The 2005 all-ireland final was his highpoint, gaining possession 34 times and never once wasting it, even weighing in with 3 points. He must've touched the ball 10 times in the last 5 minutes alone that day, as every Tyrone player gave him the ball, knowing that he would not lose it. Brian was never the same player after his broken leg and eye injuries but, at his best, he was an outstanding footballer.

As Boc has said, Philip Jordan played almost every minute of every championship game under Mickey Harte. His performances this year were still of a high standard, and he is definitely one of the old guard that I would liked to have seen stay on. Jordan was exceptionally consistent, to the extent that I can hardly recall him playing a bad game. Before the 2005 AIF, I remember Joe Brolly posing the rhetorical question 'Has anyone ever seen Philly Jordan make a mistake?'. 4 all-stars for a wing back is very rare, and Jordan would be an automatic choice at left half back on any team of the last decade. In my opinion, he was the best wing back of the last 20 years as, for me, his consistency in big games edges out Tomas O'Se.

Two great footballers, and Tyrone can't expect to see their like again anytime soon. Such stars don't come along that often., but we in Tyrone have been extremely lucky to enjoy them for the last 10-15 years.

perhaps its only now that we will start to appreciate what we in Tyrone had with so many wonderful players.

It does amke you wonder though how were we so fortunate to have so many really good footballers all come through at the one time.

Stephen O' Neill, Brian McGuigan, Philip Jordan, Cormac McAnallen, Kevin Hughes, Conor Gormley, Enda McGinley and Owen Mulligan to name but a few. Was it a case that they had the same manager from minor to senior and so were well versed in his ideas and practices or was it just a 'freak of nature'

PHILIP JORDAN believes Tyrone should have won more than three All-Ireland titles during the county’s golden era.
Jordan, who has called time on his inter-county career following a decade of distinguished service, pointed to unforeseen circumstances, most notably the sudden death of team captain Cormac McAnallen in 2004 as crucial factors.

The four-time All-Star wing back intends to continue playing with his club, as does Brian McGuigan, who also announced his retirement this week.

"When you look back on it, you’d like to have won more All-Irelands, but 10 years ago, you’d have taken three, that’s for certain," said Jordan.

"There were circumstances in certain years. In ’04 we thought we could have won the All-Ireland, but obviously with Cormac’s death, it was always going to be tough for us.

"2010 was another year we thought we were in there with a shout, but Dublin beat us in the quarter-final. But Kerry don’t win the All-Ireland every year either, and I’m sure they’re thinking that the three years that we beat them, in a semi-final and two finals, they were saying that they could have won more."

Moy clubman Jordan will take with him many treasured memories into retirement, particularly his three All-Ireland triumphs, each one of them uniquely special.

"Winning the All-Ireland is the ultimate for every county player. They were special in their own different ways. In 2003, it was the first All-Ireland Tyrone had won, and there was just raw emotion after that.

"In ’05, when we were able to dedicate that one to Cormac, it was special for all the players. And ’08, people had been saying Tyrone were finished after Peter (Canavan) had retired, and that we could never win an All-Ireland without him. We were written off at the start of the championship, and to come back and win it that way was pretty special."

Jordan was one of an exceptional group of gifted footballers who first came to national attention in 1998 when they won a minor All-Ireland title.

He was joined on that team by a host of players who would go on to become household names, including Stephen O’Neill, Kevin Hughes, Brian McGuigan, Owen Mulligan, Enda McGinley, Cormac McAnallen, Pascal McConnell, Ciarán Gourley and Mickey McGee, all of whom went on to win U21 and senior All-Irelands.

"I think it’s unprecedented. I don’t think there has ever been a team of under-age players who have come through in such numbers.

"I was counting up the 2001 U21 team, and there was 11 of that starting team went on to win All-Ireland senior titles, which is probably unheard of. And most of them went on to play for six or seven years at least at senior level."

With Brian Dooher, Jordan and McGuigan now having confirmed their retirements, and speculation continuing over a number of others, manager Mickey Harte faces a period of transition and rebuilding. But Jordan believes there’s sufficient talent available in Tyrone to ensure the county continues to push for top honours.

"There’s certainly enough talent to be making quarter-finals every year, and for that to be the minimum standard for every Tyrone team. I suppose that’s the thing we changed. The mind-set in Tyrone football is completely different now.

"We’ve taken a bit more stick over last few years when we haven’t been successful, and that’s only a good thing. Nobody likes getting criticised, but with that set as a standard for Tyrone football going forward, it’s only going to drive the thing on.

"When I was going to the summer camps at the age of nine or ten, there were people wearing soccer jerseys Man United and Liverpool, and now there’s not one soccer jersey in sight, and that’s probably the biggest difference we have brought to the county itself. People just love gaelic football, and that’s all they care about.’’


courtesy of Irish Examiner

I think he's just pointed out the obvious i think. While people from Tyrone will look upon their Golden Generation with a massive amount of pride, and rightly so, there will be the realists that will point out they should have won at least 6. That's how many i think they could have won anyhows.

I remember saying to a man from Kildress in 03 that Tyrone would win the next 3 All Irelands, however with a combination of bad luck and bad judgement they didn't. Even the sheep on the mountains would tell you that Tyrone underachieved somewhat with the brilliant squad they had, not that you'd find me complaining if Derry underachieved like that!

Ah I don't believe they underachieved at all. They came from a history of never having won a Senior All Ireland to winning 3 in 6 years. Winning one All Ireland is hard enough, ask any Dub, so to win 3 out of 6 is fairly phenomenal. There is always a few teams in every Championship that can trip you up. And there is absolutely no way of knowing that Cormac's death cost them an All Ireland. And conversely you could ask Philly how many they would have won with no back-door.

I think talk of underachieving is silly and maybe more so because of who is saying it. As I said 3/6 speaks for itself, very few counties achieve that kind of success.

I'm not asking any other county, what i'm saying is that with the talent they had, they should have won 6 All Irelands, that's hardly a slight to a great team.

Any county would be happy with 3 All Irelands in 6 years, but not all counties will ever have the Golden Generation Tyrone had.

Call me silly if you like in whatever veiled way you want, however that is my opinion on the matter!

All I am saying is that it is very hard to win one never mind three. You have to be lucky with injuries etc, sometimes the draw. It might be Tyrone's Golden generation but there were some good other teams around too, not least Armagh in Ulster.

ps I meant that I think Philly is being silly!!!

Ulster isn't the question here, the All Ireland is the question! Stating Armagh in Ulster is a non-entity as Tyrone won 2 All Irelands through the back door, a vehicle that they used to their advantage in doing so.

The whole arguement is based on hypothetics, people say that Derry, Donegal and Down would have won more All Irelands had the back door been in place, but it wasn't and they didn't. Tyrone had the back door and they found it worked better for them going down that route but i still think they should have won more, perhaps thats just the winner in me!!!!

I stand corrected RE "Silly Philly!"

Aye not arguing with you at all because it's all hypothetical. But one could argue (!!!) that they lost more All Irelands through the back door than they won and indeed won as many Ulsters in the 2000-08 period than Sams!

Mind you I think its fairly unusual that they never lost a Final. Three appearances and three wins.

Parouisa wrote:Aye not arguing with you at all because it's all hypothetical. But one could argue (!!!) that they lost more All Irelands through the back door than they won and indeed won as many Ulsters in the 2000-08 period than Sams!

Mind you I think its fairly unusual that they never lost a Final. Three appearances and three wins.

Lost 1986. (Not the present team though)

Real Kerry Fan wrote:Lost 1986. (Not the present team though)

And 1995 but we are talking about this set of players - who NEVER lost to Kerry in the Championship!

i dont think any of the Tyrone lads will look back with too many regrets. Its all very well saying we could have won more but if we look at it realistically i dont think 2004 was ever going to be anything but one long party. To have put so much effort in and finally make the breakthrough meant so much and in many ways players tend to drop their guard when it comes to defending a title, thats why i am not surprised Cork didnt do so well this year and i fully expect next year to be a difficult year for the Dubs too.

We were unlucky with injuries at certain times and the loss of Cormac but no one can say for sure we would have won any more had these events/injuries not occurred. To come from nowhere and win 3 in such a short space of time was a phenomenal achievement for all involved. But in some ways you almost need some sort of a setback to refocus the energies into winning again, so its no surprise that few teams every defend their title.

I'd be happy with 3 but i would like to think we will be serious challengers again in the not too distant future.

I agree with Bald Eagle, in that there were definitely a couple of great chances left behind. To have so much U-21 talent emerge at one time is rare, and to have Canavan, Dooher and Cavlan to supplement it was just incredible.

People talk about Cormac's death in 2004, but the absence due to injury of Enda McGinley, Conor Gormley & Brian McGuigan were also crucial in the defeat to Mayo. 2006 was a write off due to a ridiculous injury situation, with Gormley, McGuigan, McGinley, O'Neill, Cavlan, Hughes and various others out for most of the year.

2007 was a poor year which culminated in a bad defeat to Meath, and the 2008 win was perhaps a bit fortunate, as our form blossomed very late in the summer. 2009/10 were definitely missed opportunities, as, even though, the team was well past its best at that stage, there was little else around, and we were well prepared.

For me, from 2003-2006 Tyrone were the best side in Ireland, and should have had at least one more All Ireland in that period. The talent within the squad was worthy of it, but history will show that it didn't work out that way. Perhaps we didn't win 4 or 5 because of the base from which we started. Maybe if the same set of players had been from Kerry they would have had half a dozen AI medals. We'll never know, but I still believe that Tyrone 2003-2005 was one of the greatest sides we have seen.

Thomas Clarke wrote:To have so much U-21 talent emerge at one time is rare,

Yes the conversion rate from minor and under 21 was rare and no doubt foundation for the success. And I'm inclined to agree regarding the point about Kerry but would add that most of the lads had the experience of All Ireland success at underage level which you would think would help mentally etc.

I think the strength of the Armagh team at the peak time was also a factor as Armagh were probably at their prime in that period. I think Armagh certainly underachieved with only one Sam.

If either team had have peaked away from each other they may have had more success.

Parouisa wrote:

Thomas Clarke wrote:To have so much U-21 talent emerge at one time is rare,

I think the strength of the Armagh team at the peak time was also a factor as Armagh were probably at their prime in that period. I think Armagh certainly underachieved with only one Sam.

If either team had have peaked away from each other they may have had more success.

Agree with both your points there regarding the amount of talent that came through at the one time, perhaps the effective use of manager promotion played a major part in this also!

The 2003 side were a great combination, those youngsters needed Peter Canavan for his experience, and Canavan needed the youngsters to get the service to him and help him get an All Ireland medal!

For me, Armagh definately underachieved with 1 Sam, just out of interest, how many times did either Tyrone or Armagh elimate each other from the All Ireland Series? Obviously the 2003 final was one, but i can't remember any other and just can't be arsed to look it up!!

Ciaran Gourley the latest to withdraw his services from Tyrone, not really a surprise given the fact he missed last season through injury.

bald eagle wrote: just out of interest, how many times did either Tyrone or Armagh elimate each other from the All Ireland Series? Obviously the 2003 final was one, but i can't remember any other and just can't be arsed to look it up!!

Under Harte, Tyrone have played both Armagh and Kerry 3 times each in the All-Ireland series. Tyrone have won all 6 games (Armagh 2003, 2005 & 2011 - Kerry 2003, 2005, 2008).

As for Gourley, I was under the impression that he left the panel mid summer! Perhaps this announcement is just confirming that. So that makes Dooher, Jordan, McGuigan & Gourley from the 2003 starting 15 who have all retired this year. What odds on Hughes, McGinley, Mulligan and Ricey to follow....

Pleased to see Ricey indicate today that he is keen to give it another year. He isn't the player he was 3-4 years ago, but I'd be confident that he would still be able to do a good job for the last 20 minutes or so in a tight game.

Ricey also brings huge leadership and motivational qualities, not only on the field, but also in training. While Tyrone need a lot of new blood, it is important that we don't lose all our experience in one go. In that regard, this is good news.

What McManamin bring to the team is questionible in terms of football to be hoenst. As long as he can get near enough to get in a fella's ear hell be as useful as he always was. The other lads are a footballing loss - Ricye wdnt be.

I think you are being harsh their Podger. Ricey was Tyrone's leader in defence for the last decade, not just motivationally but also in terms of organising and covering for others.

He was at least as comfortable as a half back as he was in the corner, and kicked several key scores for Tyrone at crucial times, most notably when he roasted the Gooch from corner back in the 2003 semi final, bursting through to fire over an inspirational point.

Some people will will just remember him for the unsavoury side of his game, but he was a very good, intelligent footballer, and I'm pleased he seems to be staying for another year.

was been a bit tongue in cheek but I cdnt see Ricey bursting past Gooch for a score next year or any after it all teh same!

Podger wrote:was been a bit tongue in cheek but I cdnt see Ricey bursting past Gooch for a score next year or any after it all teh same!

True, 2003 is a long time ago. But he's still a very useful squad member to have, even well into his 30s as he will be next year.

It really is hard to keep up with all these retirements! Today Enda McGinley has announced that he has played his last game for Tyrone.

Enda was a very versatile and under-rated player. Not as naturally gifted as some of his forward colleagues, he was a very good athlete for a big man, and tough as nails, the latter point best demonstrated when he broke a bone in his neck in the 12th minute of the 2003 AIF, yet still finnished the game.

McGinley's best year was undoubtedly 2008, when he really should have won footballer of the year. More than any other player, it was McGinley, driving and scoring from midfield, that dragged an under-performing side into the latter stages of the competition.

Enda suffered a lot of injuries in his career, including a broken neck, a fractured skull and cruciate ligament trouble. This meant that he had long spells out of action, and it is worth having a look at the championship games that he failed to start:

2004 losses to Donegal & Mayo
2006 loss to Derry
2007 loss to Meath
2008 loss to Down
2010 loss to Dublin
2011 losses to Donegal & Dublin

Aside from Laois 2006, Cork 2009 and Armagh in the Ulster final replay of 2005, McGinley was missing in all of Tyrone's championship losses since 2003, or 8 out of 11 if you prefer. He was present in all 3 of the all-ireland wins. To me, that says as much as anything about his value to the Tyrone side over the last decade.