Tyrone!

I am a bit puzzled by Tyrone. In 2007, Meath beat them and it could also be said, beat them easier than a defecit of two points might have suggested. Then for much of 2008, they looked like a team going nowhere until they exploded into life against Dublin. They, then peaked once more to beat Kerry in the final.

The team that Meath beat contained eight players all playing in the exact positions as they did against Kildare last Bank Holiday Weekend; Ryan McMenamin, Davy Harte, Conor Gormely, Philip Jordan, Kevin Hughes, Sean Cavanagh, Brian Dooher and Owen Mulligan!

The majority of the changes in the Tyrone team have come in the forwards in the last two years. Mulgrew started back then but has since been replaced by Tommy McGuigan who couldn't get his place in those days. Joe McMahon has gone from being a full-back (at the time, I seem to recall this was a problem area for Tyrone) to being a half-forward in place of Ryan Mellon - who is injured now I do believe. Martin Penrose starts instead of Colm McCullagh, I'm not sure why as I've always rated McCullagh to be a top class forward. And finally Ger Cavlan has since retired and Stephen O'Neill is back. Ironically, O'Neill came on in place of Cavlan against Meath that day and played fairly poor.

The other changes have been the goalkeepers, both of whom are readily interchangeable and this wouldn't represent much of a difference, PJ Quinn instead of Damian McCaul (much of a muchness) and Joe McMahon's brother Justin seems to have solved their full-back issues which the former could not.

So really the team that was so comprehensively beaten by Meath would seem awfully similiar to the one today - nine players retained and if anything, the other six (perhaps O'Neill and Justin McMahon aside) have been replaced by poorer players.

All of this really leads me to believe that Tyrone haven't improved since 2007 and early 2008, just that everything around them has regressed. Mickey Harte may have said a few words, done a few more laps in the winter and tweaked tactics but the talent at his disposal is still the same.

Meath obviously took a huge step backwards since that game the following year and it is a pointless exercise using that match to rate the sides today. Kerry, the All-Ireland winners that year are still a team in decline, its just not as rapid as had first been believed. Dublin have shown consistency but certainly haven't improved since 2007 and Cork, well, the jury is possibly still out on Cork. Also, how do a team like Down beat Tyrone in the 2008 Ulster Championship, it just dosen't make sense?

To me it all points to Tyrone remaining the same since 2007 (a small bit above average) while everything else around them has got progressively worse? Or have I missed something that would suggest they have improved?

I have been saying this for a couple of weeks, and indeed last October.

Tyrone 2008 were a mediocre side, certainly compared to the 05 vintage, but betyter than anything else.

A bit better this year as a reduced Mugsy and O'Neill are better than most of last years forwards. Remember I said on paper only one of them would get on for Antrim?

However Tyrone still have a great hunger as a team, and RUN all day.

And maybe Hayes is right about this Kerry team.

Tyrone are an excellent side - full of good players, good athletes and pure quality in all the right areas. They have not played anything like they can yet and are in a semi. They will need to hit near top gear to beat Cork but my money is on them.

Jayo Cluxton wrote:Tyrone are an excellent side - full of good players, good athletes and pure quality in all the right areas. They have not played anything like they can yet and are in a semi. They will need to hit near top gear to beat Cork but my money is on them.

Yes but as individuals, I wouldn't say Tyrone's players come close to Kerrys. They all compliment each other well and the way they play certainly gets the maximum and more out of them.

But have Tyrone improved in the last two years? I think not so does it mean everything else has gone backways?

Loyal - the personnel that make up the team may not have changed vastly but what has changed is the adaptibility of every member of that team. In 05 and perhaps even up to 07 we had players who were seen as defenders only or forwards only. Now we evolved a system were anyone of those guys could literally play anywhere on the field. Take last year Joe Mc Mahon played most of the season as a half forward and yet when the final came he played as a second full back and gave Walsh nothing. Look at this year how many times have you seen Ricey making a burst forward and setting up a score or even scoring himslef as he did in the Ulster final, take Conor Gormley too against Armagh he was assigned the task of marking Clarke and yet found himself on the end of a Mulligan pass to score our second goal and against Kildare he set up an O' Neill point with a great run forward. What about Justin McMahon, scored arguably one of the points of the seasona against Kildare and him a full back too.
Whats noticeable in all this is that as soon as a defender makes a run up field one of the other players knows to take a step back and cover their man. When we have possession every player is a forward and when we dont every man is a defender - Tyrone players are all equally comfortable with the ball.

Its also noticeable that no matter what changes or systems opponents want to play we are always ready for them - tactically we have improved in a big way - no stone is left unturned in trying to second guess what opponents will throw at us.

So the answer as far as i am concerned is that Tyrone have got better - that is not to say however that you may be correct in your observation that other teams have taken steps backwards

I think the myth of the Kerry player is just that. A lot of current Kerry players are - well I hate to use this word - overrated! Gooch is and always was - class. Dara - was - class. Galvin is superb - but they have a lot of ordinary footballers.

Don't read anything into how they performed against a team that were beaten before a ball was thrown in. They did not get the room they got last Monday even in games v Longford, Sligo and Antrim - and will not get it again this year.

The Tyrone class has yet to show. Mulligan and O'Neill stepped up on Saturday - Dooher and Cav less so - but did when it mattered. And there is pure quality all over. I have no doubt that when serious questions are asked - the guys mentioned - as well as the McMahons, Gormley, Hughes, Jordan etc - will step up to the plate.

That is extremely interesting reading Bocerty and obviously a very plausible reason for Tyrone turning their fortunes around. I can't say I disagree with any of it either, Tyrone are very well organised and as you say, all of them are equally at ease with the ball in their hands. Their fitness levels has also taken the sport to a new height and I suppose they are the only team who can operate this kind of system.

I wonder was the groundwork for this kind of system only starting to come together when Meath and Down beat them and not perfected like it is now? Certainly Meath and Down would struggle against them today so the manner in which they have resurrected what looked like a team that was finished has been quite remarkable.

What will be seen and accepted in future is that Tyrone re-invented Gaelic football. From the swarm/blanket defence Mickey Harte and co appled the logic into total interchangeability of positions - away from the rigidity of traditional 'set' positions. The result is that you have 14 guys that can and will slot in anywhere and most of them do. People talk about 13-a-side but the way Tyrone play the game it should be 17 a side.

Mickey Harte has moved GAA to a new level. Few see it now - but they will eventually.

Just can't like them..it's a Derry thing!

So what kind of team will it take to beat Tyrone?

Surely the system isn't completely flawless? The traditional Ulster approach failed as they waltzed through that province and then beat Kildare (Ulster-like too). The Kerry tactic of the two big men inside failed and now Cork's big physical running game shall try. But I think that could meet a similiar fate too.

Loyal2TheRoyal wrote:So what kind of team will it take to beat Tyrone?

Surely the system isn't completely flawless? The traditional Ulster approach failed as they waltzed through that province and then beat Kildare (Ulster-like too). The Kerry tactic of the two big men inside failed and now Cork's big physical running game shall try. But I think that could meet a similiar fate too.

Well thats the million dollar question Loyal. Tyrone have done what Holland did in the 70s I think - total football. Of course it is beatable - but how?? as you ask! Football thrived (!!!) on negativity for a few years and now - in 2009 - you have got to have players that can play/score/defend/tackle everywhere. I think its a good conundrum for the game to have!

Tyrone are the new Kerry. Tyrone have got a conveyer belt of talent coming through.

Very interesting point you bring up Loyal. Of all Tyrone's championship defeats under Mickey Harte, this is the one that is hardest to explain. In 2004/6 there was a litany of injuries, Armagh 2005 we had 2 men sent off, while against Down last year we played very well, but just weren't as fit as Down that early in the summer.

Meath 2007 is the one that I still recall nervously. Cavanagh and Hughes were completely cleaned out at midfield that day, Hughes' lack of inches and Cavanagh's not contesting primary possession being exposed. Worringly, we are now back to this same midfield. Meath also bombarded our full-back line with high balls that day, which we struggled to cope with, although that is something we have improved on since. Up front, Tyrone were like a blunt sword, with Dooher injured (a rare mistake by Harte to play him at all), and Mulligan unfit. Our problems up front continued into 2008, before Cavanagh was switched to full-forward.

From a Tyrone perspective, the worrying thing about this defeat is that we were outmuscled by a physically bigger side. This could again be a problem against Cork, and for Ward/Crawford/O'Rourke read Murphy/O'Connor/O'Neill.

In answer to the question, have Tyrone improved, I'd agree with Bocerty and say that we have, partly due to new players (McMahon/Quinn/O'Neill returning), partly due to existing players becoming even better (Joe McMahon/McGinley/Penrose) and largely due to increased fitness levels throughout the panel (notably Ricey/Mulligan/Hughes). You could also add in confidence, which we got from beating Dublin.

I think, though, that it is fair to say that most other top counties have regressed since then. Kerry, Dublin and Armagh are not the sides they were in 2007, but Cork have improved. Meath have also regressed, but they are also very inconsistent - capable of getting up for big games against Tyrone or Dublin, but dreadful in some others.

Kerry have regressed no question. No one should be fooled by their stroll in Croke Park the last day. Dublin havn't regressed ,much the same as Galway,Derry or Meath, they were never much good to begin with. The life cycle of the All-Ireland winning Armagh side has well and truly passed. Cork and maybe Mayo might have improved a little but unlike Tyrone or Kerry neither can be trusted on the big day. Tyrone are a shoe-in for the All-Ireland Final this year. The other side of the draw might be a little more interesing.