Tyrone v Down

Down have to be the most hyped team in Ulster this year. Well this is their chance to justify all the attention. Benny gave a great display in McCool park, if he repeats it then Down have a good chance. Marty Clarke is proposed as the Messiah of Down football. Do you agree?
He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy!!

RMDrive wrote:Down have to be the most hyped team in Ulster this year. Well this is their chance to justify all the attention. Benny gave a great display in McCool park, if he repeats it then Down have a good chance. Marty Clarke is proposed as the Messiah of Down football. Do you agree?
He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy!!

Only for the virtuoso performance given by Coulter the last day, Down would have been dead and buried. Pretty much the same applies going into the Tyrone game. Were Clarke to up his performance and indeed the team improve overall by 25% they have a chance.
Tyrone, while never having to panic, will take this one by 3 at least..

McComisky, Clarke, Benny, Down certainly have the better forwards as Tyrone no longer have a big name performing at his peak.

However they still have 14 forwards.

This could be interesting and Tyrone could spring a surprise but I still fancy Down.

it will be interesting to see the team we start with - will there be any changes to the starting 15 - i think we need to. Davy Harte is the most likely candidate to miss out but then again being the managers nephew might be his saving grace.

We need to contain Benny, he has been our achilles heel in the past and always seem to excel when playing against Tyrone. It will be interesting to see how influential Clarke will be when up against the intensity of the Tyrone team.

Casement Park is not the happiest of hunting grounds for Tyrone but i would expect us to prevail after a tight game

bocerty wrote: Davy Harte is the most likely candidate to miss out but then again being the managers nephew might be his saving grace.

Yes, I think that Davy might be dropped for the first time in 5 years, with Gormley likely to slot in there.

Down have some good forwards but, despite what Patrique thinks, so do Tyrone. Some of our players may not have the pace of a few years ago, but we make space and create chances better than anyone, so I'm not too concerned. The big difference may be the 2 defences, as Tyrone have a lot more experience and talent there. Down will need to dominate midfield to win this game.

Now Tom I didn't say you didn't have good forwards, I said you no longer have marque forwards like Canavan, a 2005 Mugsy and O'Neill.

But the fact that the entire team moves forward means you can throw it around and sooner or later there will be a spare man.

i expect Kyle Coney to makean appearance as he shows promise.

patrique wrote:Now Tom I didn't say you didn't have good forwards, I said you no longer have marque forwards like Canavan, a 2005 Mugsy and O'Neill.

But the fact that the entire team moves forward means you can throw it around and sooner or later there will be a spare man.

i expect Kyle Coney to makean appearance as he shows promise.

That sounds a bit fairer Patrique

Coney has a lot of ability, but watch for Peter Harte this year, could well be the long term replacement for Dooher, and has a bit more inside him than Coney appears to have.

The difference in this game could, as you say, be the extra man. With Tyrone, it will be one of the McMahons (usually, but not always, Joey) stepping out into midfield from the sweeper position. For Down, James Colgan is less likely to be able to do this, and that extra man coming forward could be the difference for Tyrone. Hoping it will, anyway!

i gather that all is not well between Harte (the manager) and Coney so don't be surprised if he doesn't appear on Saturday.

Benny is class - Marty is class but needs consistency. After that I think Down are quite ordinary - and overrated - as Armagh were. Will be surprised to see anything other than a comfortable Tyrone victory here.

heard a few mumors that brian mcguigan has been the best man on the field in the in house games recently. hopefully if true the great man is back to his best and may get a start on saturday evening.

Have to say I think Down are a bit overrated myself. Don't get me wrong, they're a good side with a few quality forwards although weak at the back in particular. But all this talk before the championship of alot of people tipping them for Ulster and even dark horses for the All-Ireland really baffled me, didn't see that at all. If Donegal had their shooting boots on they'd have beat them and Coulter's indvidual performance and the drama of extra-time masked what was a low-quality game.

Benny was class the last day out and only for him Down would be in the qualifiers now, but he'll have to maintain that performance against Tyrone for Down to stand a chance. Clarke will also have to improve from the last day and offer more from open play, although even his presence frees up Coulter so he's making a difference already. They'll also have to improve significantly at the back. Tyrone aren't the team they were a couple of years ago, so Down have a chance of course and won't fear them, but I can't see past Tyrone winning it by a few points.

Unfortunately Im out of the country at the minute and won´t be at Saturday evening´s game but still expect us to get through to the final. Our record at Casement has been pretty good in recent years.

From memory the last time we were beaten at Casement park was way back in ´98 by Down but things have moved on abit from that day when our team where run like greyhounds round Killyman before the game. I hope that Gormley is included in our defence and harte should be the man to step aside but it is unlikely. O´Neill, Mugsy and Penrose will not be contained by the Down full back line. I don´t think that either mugsy or Stevy O´Neill appeared in Down´s shock defeat in 2008. Tyrone by 5 points and Tir Eoghain abu!

Davy Harte has got the chop and is replaced in the half back line by Peter Harte - Gormley is back in at CHB no doubt to do a man marking job on Benny

Tyrone Senior Football Team v Down Ulster Senior Football Championship Semi FinalSat 19th June – Casement Park
1 Pascal McConnell
2 Martin Swift –
3 Justin McMahon –
4 Dermot Carlin –
5 Peter Harte –
6 Conor Gormley –
7 Philip Jordan –
8 Colm Cavanagh –
9 Kevin Hughes –
10 Brian Dooher –
11 Sean Cavanagh –
12 Joe McMahon –
13 Martin Penrose –
14 Stephen O’Neill –
15 Owen Mulligan –

Down playing some great football here

Just back from Casement and am very disappointed! Down never came out the second half. Too many players hiding on the pitch. Marty Clarke was less than useless and looked like he didn't want to be there. Been a big disappointment since his return from oz. Too much expected of him and I think he's been reading too many reports about himself. Living off his name and not his performances at the moment. Benny was great the first half, but like the rest of the Down team non-existant in the second half. The amount of wides was incredible, and Down didn't take their goal chances. On that showing neither Down nor Tyrone will be anywhere near All Ireland contenders this year. On another note, not that it would have changed the final result, the referee today was an absolute joke. Why are these refs still allowed to ref ulster football? They don't have a clue what they're doing blowing up play every thirty seconds and showing a hell of a lot more yellow cards than common sense! He was a joke!

Everyone thought he let the game flow!!!!!!!!!!!

Seriously. On the TV they kept criticising him for NOT blowing fouls.

Ulster football.

hogan2010 wrote: Benny was great the first half

Seriously?

A comfortable win for Tyrone in the end, not-with-standing a difficult opening quarter. After that, though it was one-way traffic, and I was a bit disappointed that Tyrone didn't push on and win by 7-8.

The defence was excellent. The McMahons, Carlin, Gormley were all well on top of their men. Dooher and Penrose got through a mountain of work, although the Captain should have been withdrawn after 50 minutes, when he was out on his feet. Hub & Colm Cavanagh started poorly, but grew into the game, but the absence of Enda McGinley from the panel remains a big hole, particularly when we start to come up against sides who have strength in depth at midfield.

In attack, Peter Harte injected much-needed pace when moved up, although how he ended up at FF is a complete mystery. Sean Cavanagh showed some signs of a return to form, but Mugsy has lost his acceleration, and is now relying on strength and cuteness.

Overall, a comfortable 4 point win against another of those middling sides that seem to make up most of the Ulster championship (Donegal, Derry, Armagh would also be in that list), but improvement will be needed. Still, there are 4 weeks to find it.

As for Down, a decent draw in the first round of the qualifiers is what they badly need now, as a young side like that needs more games and more experience. They also need Dan Gordon to rediscover himself, as he is but a shadow of the man he was a few years ago, and this at a stage in his career when he should be in his prime.

Tyrone's midfield was non existent for the first half which must be slightly worrying. Just can't take to Colm Cavanagh don't think he's the real deal at all. Dooher done a lot of great work and Penrose was class and it's safe to assume Tyrone would have pushed it up a gear had Marty Clarke had a better day at the frees.

Assuming Monaghan get by Fermanagh it could make for an excellent Ulster final.

Thomas Clarke wrote:As for Down, a decent draw in the first round of the qualifiers is what they badly need now, as a young side like that needs more games and more experience.

On the button analysis from TC here. Down are somewhat of an enigma, blowing hot and cold. They don't appear to me, at any rate, to have the depth of talent that is required to make the last 8...They looked this evening to be in the lower regions of the "middle third" if such a place exists, while Tyrone appeared to be in the lower regions of the "upper third".

Clarke is useless, not a team player at all at all ..

Tyrone haven't had a mid field for about twenty years, they don't need one.

Down were full of vim for twenty minutes, reminiscent of Cork last year. However Tyrone got a hold of them, as the defence, especially Penrose and Dooher, got to grips with them. And unlike Cpork, Down could not sustain the pace, and in the 2nd half played like a beaten team.

However Tyrone just shut the game down. Noiw you all know I have reservations about Brian McGuigan, comparing him to Neil Lennon at soccer, but Tyrone suddenly had ten Neil Lennons just closing the game down.

And by missing easy frees and such, Down did little to help themselves.

But Tomas Clarke is right, Tyrone have yet to betested. Personally I think a fit well drilled team with a few good players would take them, and I believe Cork would destroy them.

However....Cork's belief has been shaken and would they win a qualifier away in Mayo or Derry or whatever?

kerry would always worry about Tyrone, although after 2008 I think they may be over that.

But I would have serious doubts about Tuyrone winning the whole thing. we said that two years ago, but two years ago Tyrone were younger.

patrique wrote:
However Tyrone just shut the game down. Noiw you all know I have reservations about Brian McGuigan, comparing him to Neil Lennon at soccer

You know Patrique, that is the one that I have most difficulty in understanding when it comes to your opinions on footballers.

Despite looking leaner tonight than he has for quite some time, Brian is far removed from the man he was in 2005. But back then, he was a fabulous footballer, with vision, skill, pace, and he was involved in everything that Tyrone did well. He could also win broken ball and defend as well as most backs.

I think you have completely underestimated how good he was, and what he brought to Tyrone in their first 2 all-ireland wins.

Downs play in the opening quarter was top drawer stuff - the sort of play normally seen from a team who are All Ireland contenders. Tyrone players couldnt get within an asses roar of the Down players and they were picking off some fine scores.

But Mickey and the lads dont do panic and that was clearly obvious once again today, the enforced substitution of Stephen O' Neill (an almost exact replica of last years SF against Derry at the same ground when he was withdrawn after a hand injury) actually worked in Tyrone's favour, i think . McGuigan had a fairly decent game and was instrumental in a lot of Tyrone's good passages of play, that coupled with the fact that we pushed a man onto Mc Colgan and thus closed off alot of the avenues Down were using to move the ball out of their defence at ease.

That move seemed to take Down by surprise and they seemed clueless after that and panic set in. Tyrone picked off some fine scores including two from big Joe and Sean Cavanagh to turn the screw a little before half time.

The second half was a strange 35 minutes Tyrone played well within themselves and could easily have turned up a notch were it required. Downs fitness levels are questionable based on the second half and thats strange coming from a team trained by Paddy Tally but then Tyrone U21s who he also trained this year were also found wanting when it came to fitness this year.

We still have a lot of work to do - our midfield was non existent and i cant remember Hughes touching the ball bar a shot he had in first half - that said Down werent exactly doing much in midfield either. Our forwards need to be producing more scores too - Penrose had an excellent game but most of his best work was been done in our own half were he was playing as a 7th defender much of the time.

I thought the referee had one of his better games and did his best to let the game flow. He was a bit card happy it could be said but some of the fouls were very cynical particularly from Down.

As for Down the same old problems are still there - there was no plan B and without doubt someone else should have taken over the free taking from Clarke who had a day to forget overall. But credit to Harte and Donnelly who once again have shown they are very adaptable when it comes to tactics and game plans, they spot things very quickly and its a credit to the team that these changes can be made with consummate ease. It was notable that when Swift got a yellow at the very start of the second half he was immediately withdrawn, very sensible management in my opinion.

Thomas Clarke wrote:

patrique wrote:
However Tyrone just shut the game down. Noiw you all know I have reservations about Brian McGuigan, comparing him to Neil Lennon at soccer

You know Patrique, that is the one that I have most difficulty in understanding when it comes to your opinions on footballers.

Despite looking leaner tonight than he has for quite some time, Brian is far removed from the man he was in 2005. But back then, he was a fabulous footballer, with vision, skill, pace, and he was involved in everything that Tyrone did well. He could also win broken ball and defend as well as most backs.

I think you have completely underestimated how good he was, and what he brought to Tyrone in their first 2 all-ireland wins.

McGuigan, doing the simple thing and always being on hand was vital to Tyrone's way of playing, but to me it was the "Neil Lennon" role, the simple thing. Dooher was the play maker.

I honestly couldn't see other teams indulging McGuigan's role because their system would not allow it.

And I prefer the old pure genius that a McDonald or Giles or whatever could give you when delivering a 50 yard pass.

patrique wrote:
McGuigan, doing the simple thing and always being on hand was vital to Tyrone's way of playing, but to me it was the "Neil Lennon" role, the simple thing. Dooher was the play maker.

I honestly couldn't see other teams indulging McGuigan's role because their system would not allow it.

And I prefer the old pure genius that a McDonald or Giles or whatever could give you when delivering a 50 yard pass.

Neil Lennon sat in front of his defence, playing 5 yard passes sideways and backwards. He never moved, and never played the ball forwards.

Brian McGuigan was perpetual motion, orchestrating Tyrone's attacks, much more than Dooher or even Cavlan did. He was well capable of kicking 50 yard passes like Ciaran McDonald, but that wasn't the way Tyrone played, so he didn't do it often. But he had fabulous vision, 2 great feet and a great engine. If you wanted a soccer comparison, Xavi would be more applicable than Lennon.

I'd take a 2005 Brian McGuigan over a 2005 Ciaran McDonald any and every day of the week, simply because with McGuigan, there was always an end product.