Tyrone - Where to now?

Loyal2TheRoyal wrote: McGeeney has this one sussed. Callaghan and McGrillen are enjoying the freedom of the two wings with Tyrone dropping half-forwards very deep. You'd have to fancy Kildare from here. They've created more chances and were playing into a very tricky breeze in that half.

Loyal, this is exactly the tactic that I was advocating (and which you argued against) on the [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] thread. I'll remind you of the debate...

Loyal2TheRoyal wrote:

Thomas Clarke wrote:9. There is no longer a need for managers to select 6 defenders. Depending on who you are playing, a manager now only has to consider a maximum of 4 players for defensive duties (less if you are playing some sides). For example, if you play against Dublin, you need markers for the 2 Brogans and Connolly and, if so inclined, you can throw in a sweeper too. After that, do you really need 2 more defenders? Look for some managers to start playing more skilful players in jerseys normally associated with backs, in order to capitalise on the time and space that is available to them.

I disagree with this highly controversial point and am surprised none of the sheep have bothered to argue this one. It's backways this should be: There's no longer a need for any more than 3 forwards. Your friends in Derry went for virtue above artisan when picking backs in the Ulster Final game with Donegal and look where it got them. It's fantasy to think this and Thomas Clarke has cleary been having a dose of whatever Mickey Harte had before Tyrone's game with Dublin this year.

In picking a forward, Callaghan, to line out at LHB, McGeeney exploited the space vacated by McNabb, who was playing as Tyrone's sweeper. Could Gary White, Kildare's original selection at No.7, have done this as well? No, because White does not have the footballing skills or pace that Callaghan has. I've been saying it for 2 years, and will repeat it again: Half backs currently have more time/space to play in than any other position on the field, and the need for creativity there now outweighs the need for traditional defensive skills.

By forwards, one would have assumed you meant any class of forward. Callaghan when he was a half-forward spent a lot of time in the half-back line. He's in the mould of a Paul Galvin, Brian Dooher, Pal Flynn except more skilful. I made this point previously myself. Half-backs should be skilful soloers, passers, possess an eye for a pass.

Loyal2TheRoyal wrote:By forwards, one would have assumed you meant any class of forward.

Except, if you re-read that original post from the other thread (above), you'll see that I didn't even mention the word 'forwards'

Anyway, I'm glad you now agree, and am glad to see that top intercounty managers are trawling this forum for tactical guidance and illumination!

Thomas Clarke wrote:

Loyal2TheRoyal wrote:By forwards, one would have assumed you meant any class of forward.

Except, if you re-read that original post from the other thread (above), you'll see that I didn't even mention the word 'forwards'

Anyway, I'm glad you now agree, and am glad to see that top intercounty managers are trawling this forum for tactical guidance and illumination!

One could be confused into thinking that Eammon Callaghan dosen't how to defend. He is equally as good defending as he is attacking. I disagree with the original point - that there's no longer a need for 6 defenders. There's a need for 12 good ones and 3 alright ones (at a minimum).

Fine to disagree, but I think you are misinterpreting my post by imagining things that were never there. I never referred to forwards, and never made reference to playing people with no defensive skills. I said there was a need to play guys with more creativity, and not traditional defence first players.

two early in the year to be wring the tyrone demise,though it was an ok game till the last 10,hard to stop that young kildare lad

Mickey has signed on the dotted line for another 3 years - now all we need is to get managers sorted for the minors and u21s

dislocated shoulder for Sean Cavanagh today in a club game, not good news with a fortnight to go to the Armagh game

bocerty wrote:dislocated shoulder for Sean Cavanagh today in a club game, not good news with a fortnight to go to the Armagh game

Very worrying, especially as he is just back after a serious shoulder injury that kept him out for 6 months over the winter.

A dislocated shoulder kept Colm Cavanagh out for 2 months earlier this year, and then it took him a couple more games after than to get back to match speed. If this is confirmed, we could be without Sean for the summer. Beginning to feel like 2006 all over again.

Thomas Clarke wrote:

bocerty wrote:dislocated shoulder for Sean Cavanagh today in a club game, not good news with a fortnight to go to the Armagh game

Very worrying, especially as he is just back after a serious shoulder injury that kept him out for 6 months over the winter.

A dislocated shoulder kept Colm Cavanagh out for 2 months earlier this year, and then it took him a couple more games after than to get back to match speed. If this is confirmed, we could be without Sean for the summer. Beginning to feel like 2006 all over again.

Mickey Harte has confirmed that Cavanaghs injury will keep him out for the rest of the season. The injury jinx seems to be striking again. We can do one of two things i suppose, start feeling sorry for ourselves and throw the towel in or a few guys who in the past may have left too much to Sean can roll their sleeves up and start contributing with scores.

It will be interesting to see how things go, i'd like to think it will bring a few men on. Sean hasnt exactly being playing great football for the last number of years but he was still a very useful guy to have on the field.

Very sad to hear about Sean. One of the best players in the country in recent years and I am an admirer. Sad for Sean,Tyrone and the those who love football.

Real Kerry Fan wrote:Very sad to hear about Sean. One of the best players in the country in recent years and I am an admirer. Sad for Sean,Tyrone and the those who love football.

sad indeed considering the work he has put in to get back on the field, by all accounts its the same injury again only this time on the other shoulder which is bad luck at its worst.

Moves are afoot to tempt Brian McGuigan back onto the panel, seems he has been sounded out and Mickey is awaiting a reply................................

[quote="bocerty"]
Moves are afoot to tempt Bocerty back onto the panel, seems he has been sounded out and Mickey is awaiting a defibrilator...............................[/quote]

I can imagine...

Bad news about Cavanagh, like RKF, I'd be a fan of his. A bad blow to Tyrone and the lad himself.

bocerty wrote: Moves are afoot to tempt Brian McGuigan back onto the panel, seems he has been sounded out and Mickey is awaiting a reply................................

When I read the list of names being mooted for a return (Jordan, McGinley, Dooher, McGuigan, McCullough), the only one I felt could really help was McGuigan.

I've read a lot of people saying that Mickey should show confidence in the players already in his squad, but the reality is all the injuries (Cavanagh, Ronan O'Neill, Tommy McGuigan & Kyle Coney) have been suffered by players who would have been considered for our 2 man full-forward line. Our options in that area, in my view the most crucial and specialised on the field, are now reduced to Mugsy and Stevie O'Neill, with Johnny Lafferty supporting (he has never started a league or championship match). I really can't think of anyone else who you could realistically play in there, hence Mickey needs cover.

Obviously Jordan & McGinley are still good footballers, but we already have depth at half-back & midfield, so bringing them in wouldn't really help the crisis up front. Dooher is not an option either. McCullough is skillful and an inside forward, but he is also well into his 30s, and hasn't played at this level for a long time. McGuigan, though, could probably do a job as an inside forward. He no longer has the legs to run a game like he did 7-8 years ago, but he is strong, has good hands, exceptional vision and a ton of experience. I'd be happy to see him return in that sort of role, but would also like to see another younger scoring forward added as well, as much for the future as anything else.

so whatever happend to the tyrone underage,have to say reading some of the post above are very funny,you want to bring back players that are gone,a few weeks before championship,thats crazy just let the youngsters of sick or swim their is always the next decade or the pound

patsymc wrote:so whatever happend to the tyrone underage,have to say reading some of the post above are very funny,you want to bring back players that are gone,a few weeks before championship,thats crazy just let the youngsters of sick or swim their is always the next decade or the pound

Read again Patsy, there are no youngsters - they are injured (Coney/O'Neill). He has 4 players ruled out for the season, and they are all inside-forwards. What would you do - play one of the young corner backs in the full forward line? Harte has to bring new people into the panel, and McGuigan is more likely to do a half-decent job in the short term than a lad who has never played for the seniors before.

McGuigan attended training last night, though a line on Teamtalkmag website reads "he was one of a number of new faces who lined out......."

It doesn't mention who the other new faces were, or maybe the rest of the guys were wearing masks!!!

bocerty wrote:McGuigan attended training last night, though a line on Teamtalkmag website reads "he was one of a number of new faces who lined out......."

It doesn't mention who the other new faces were, or maybe the rest of the guys were wearing masks!!!

Happy to see McGuigan back - his experience, skills and strength could do a job in the full-forward line for 20 minutes.

As for the other new faces, I'd like to think that a couple of them were genuinely new, and not old faces come back again!

McGuigan not back for Armagh game, but will make himself available after.

GAA-Fan wrote:McGuidan not back for Armagh game, but will make himself available after.

Where did you hear that GF?

Thomas Clarke wrote:

GAA-Fan wrote:McGuidan not back for Armagh game, but will make himself available after.

Where did you hear that GF?

I have also heard that Colm Cavanagh and SON have picked up injuries.

Its in the Ulster Herald TC

Brian McGuigan has said any potential return for Tyrone won't come until after the June 10 Ulster Championship opener with Armagh.

Despite taking part in an in house training game with the Tyrone senior squad in Clogher on Thursday evening, the Ardboe play-maker has repeated his assertion made to the Ulster Herald this week, that any return to the county set-up won't come before the clash with the Orchard county in the Athletic Grounds.

“It’s simply not feasible for me to come in before the Armagh match. The boys who are there have put in a serious effort since before Christmas, and there’s no way I’m going to come in this close to the championship and disrupt things," he said this week.

"After the Armagh game we’ll look at it properly, see where I’m at, where Tyrone are at, and make a decision which we feel is going to be in everyone’s best interests.”

Speaking on Friday, McGuigan confirmed that his position remains the same.

The Ardboe man played for 30 minutes in the in-house game, which featured a number of promising club players from around Tyrone, yet to be drafted into the injury-hit senior side.

Mickey Harte's injury headache was further compounded this week after Moy talisman Sean Cavanagh was ruled out for the rest of the season. Ronan O'Neill, Tommy McGuigan and Kyle Coney have also been ruled out the 2012 championship.

It's understood that Peter Harte, Ronan McNabb, Stephen O'Neill and Colm Cavanagh sat out last night's training game, which featured county under-21 stars Conor McAliskey (Clonoe) and Darren McCurry (Edendork), who have impressed for their clubs in this year's All County League campaign.

It's also believed that approaches have been made to a number of recently retired county stars to return for Tyrone, however the Ardboe man appears the only retiree that has heeded Mickey Harte's calls to date.

Thanks GF.

The injury doubts that it names (Harte, Cavanagh, O'Neill and McNabb) would all be certain starters, and any of them would be a big loss, never mind 3-4 of them.

Pleased to hear that McAliskey and McCurry were involved in training, as both impressed for the U21s, and have been going well for their clubs.

It's all going horribly wrong for Mickey and the boys, after such a promising league campaign the wheels have come off the wagon big time.

From looking like serious contenders for Ulster and muted by some (optimists albeit) as possible All-Ireland winners, we will be lucky to get past Armagh.

Mickey has enough on his plate as it is with matters further afield so perhaps this is a welcome distraction for him.

bocerty wrote:It's all going horribly wrong for Mickey and the boys, after such a promising league campaign the wheels have come off the wagon big time.

From looking like serious contenders for Ulster and muted by some (optimists albeit) as possible All-Ireland winners, we will be lucky to get past Armagh.

Mickey has enough on his plate as it is with matters further afield so perhaps this is a welcome distraction for him.

That about sums it up Boc. It is 2006 all over again, with the summer effectively over before it started. A real shame, given the amount of work that was put in over the winter/spring. All our hopes now rest on the fitness and form of O'Neill & Mugsy.

Will probably still beat Armagh though.