All-Ireland U21 Championship 2011

Jonsmith wrote:Cavan U21 selector Ronan Carolan has described as "scandalous, disgraceful and illogical" the decision to schedule the All-Ireland semi-final against Wexford for this weekend - three days after the county's Ulster final triumph.

Cavan ended a 15-year wait for a provincial U21 crown with a fine victory over Tyrone at Brewster Park on Wednesday night.

Any celebrations had to be tempered by the fact that the Breffni lads must clean the gear and get back onto the field for Saturday evening's meeting with Wexford at Parnell Park (7pm).


And the county's former senior star Carolan believes the scheduling - which asks Cavan to play twice in 72 hours following a break of three weeks - places the Ulster champions at a distinct disadvantage.

He told the Irish Examiner, "It is absolutely scandalous, and it is a big, big issue. We talk about player welfare, player burn-out, we talk about looking after our players. This is not looking after players.

"We could play this game on Saturday week, we could play this game on Sunday week, and I gather Wexford as well would wish to play this game in ten days' time.

"We would then have a week to the All-Ireland final, whether Cavan or Wexford win it. It is illogical to ask Cavan to play [on] Saturday. Seriously, I would be very, very concerned for basic player welfare.

"We broached that subject a few days ago, Tyrone, Cavan and Wexford. To their credit, they have agreed, but unfortunately, the CCCC, in their eternal wisdom, have decided to put an All-Ireland semi-final three days after a provincial final.

"You would have to think that they do not really understand the basic effort involved in what was a top class game between two very fine teams, fine young men that are the future of the GAA. This is not the way to treat them.

"We're coming off the field, a lot of our players are absolutely fatigued, and we're expected to play another game in three days' time. This is the biggest achievement for many of these players to date, and it's totally and utterly unfair. In fact, it's absolutely disgraceful that they're expected to play again so soon."

Carolan telling it like it is.. This isn't Cavan's first U-21 title Puke?

Apologies jon, thought i heard somewhere it was...

No this is the 3rd Ulster.. Lost the Final to Offaly in '88 when Carolan broke his leg after the Semi and McCabe and the Reilly's lost to Kerry in the '96 AI Final.

100% record in Semi Finals...

There's shades of Larry in that Jack Brady fella.. Patrick King who scored the final 2 points for Cavan (highlights on the BBC link in GT news) is Stephen King's nephew..

The Puke wrote:It is tough on Cavan alright, I am sure they would have preferred another week and been able to celebrate their first title properly....

Funnily enough if Tyrone had of won I would have fancied them to beat Wexford for the simple fact that Wexford psychologically would have had a bit of hesitancy/fear of Tyrone but they will more than fancy their chances against Cavan....

I'm inclined to agree with Pat on this one - 20 years olds should be well able for this type of schedule - its not like their Bocs age or anything. Besides if they went celebrating they mighn't stop at all - ya know what them Cavan lads are like!!!

Don't think Wexford have any psychological problem - they beat Armagh in the senior QF and gave Tyrone a rattle in the semi!

JC if Wexford had played their final Wednesday night too then it might not be an issue, both panels would be on an even footing. But do you really think there is going to be no disadvantage for the team who has 2 days to recover and prepare compared to the team who has had 9 days to recover and prepare? For me the issue isn't so much about burnout but about both teams competing on an even or close to even footing.

At the end of the day though I'm just delighted they're playing an AI Semi.. We have a strong panel, plenty of subs who can slot in and adrenaline should keep the lads going.. I think we have a good chance.

Its 3 days JS - don't be wishing your life away! When I was 20 I could drink pints all night and go out he next day and hit 2-8. Ok it was Junior 10. I don't think it will affect them adversely and they will still be buzzing from the Ulster final so this could help. I sincerely hope they play well as Parnell Park demands that the team in blue play like Gods and they do!

Jayo Cluxton wrote:Its 3 days JS - don't be wishing your life away! When I was 20 I could drink pints all night and go out he next day and hit 2-8. Ok it was Junior 10. I don't think it will affect them adversely and they will still be buzzing from the Ulster final so this could help. I sincerely hope they play well as Parnell Park demands that the team in blue play like Gods and they do!

Pure bull about the 3 days not having an effect, an indivual may not be affected and could well play 4 or 5 games in a week without too much bother, mainly due to the facts that all these games would be at different levels and standards, but there is a huge diffference between an County standard underage player playing for his county and then playing for Club be it adult or underage where he has a natural advantage due to his skill level and a higher fitness level at club level but when you have a collective group of players at Inter county that played 3 days earlier(15 + players) then of course it will have a bearing as there won't be as big a gap in standard in fitness and skill, meaning the team that has had the longer break to recover and should have more energy....Now Cavan may well go out and steamroll Wexford due to being a superior side but I don't see this happening and I would very much doubt there would be one Sports Scientist in the country that would agree with your and Pat's assersion that it won't make a difference

Pretty much every sports scientist and trainer who knows what they are doing will tell you that there is no such thing as overtraining or overplaying but underrecovery....and that is where problems occur

Disagree!

Jayo Cluxton wrote:Disagree!

Why and because

Young men in their prime. Training as hard as pro footballers who play 3 games per week ........

Succinctly ......

CAVAN WIN = momentum
CAVAN LOSS = tiredness ......

Personally, I don't think that physical fatigue will be an issue. As Pat & Jayo have pointed out, superfit U-21s will be fine playing another match 3 days on, so long as they didn't pick up any niggles/knocks against Tyrone.

The problem, however, and this is where I see the disadvantage, is mental fatigue, and the difficulty that a team of young amateurs will surely find in getting up for another big game so soon after the last.

A lot of it will depend on what Cavan's goal really was: If it was to win Ulster, then it will be very hard to get going again for a new challenge. If the All-Ireland has always been discussed and was the main focal point all year, then that will make it a bit easier to keep pushing ahead on that front

I think they will sense an opportunity here as their opponents are 'only' Wexford. Could be their undoing though!

Thomas Clarke wrote:Personally, I don't think that physical fatigue will be an issue. As Pat & Jayo have pointed out, superfit U-21s will be fine playing another match 3 days on, so long as they didn't pick up any niggles/knocks against Tyrone.

The problem, however, and this is where I see the disadvantage, is mental fatigue, and the difficulty that a team of young amateurs will surely find in getting up for another big game so soon after the last.

A lot of it will depend on what Cavan's goal really was: If it was to win Ulster, then it will be very hard to get going again for a new challenge. If the All-Ireland has always been discussed and was the main focal point all year, then that will make it a bit easier to keep pushing ahead on that front

The Cavan Chairman, in a speech at the Swad coming home in January, spoke about Cavan's plans to get competitive again and he said that an AI Final appearance was expected from this team. I can't say whether that attitude was reflected in the camp but my feeling would be that you are spot on with the 'mental fatigue' comment and that the team hadn't looked past Tyrone. The reaction of the players after the game seemed to be that of "Job Done" 2 days of rest days is an awful short time to let a win sink in and get yourself hyped up for another game.

JC I can assure you that nobody will be thinking that it's "Only Wexford" These lads are aware that we are "Only Cavan.."

Jayo Cluxton wrote:Young men in their prime. Training as hard as pro footballers who play 3 games per week ........

If you honestly believe that playing 3 days ago and playing again this weekend will have no effect whatsoever on them then you obviously haven't a bulls notion about physical preparation and fitness....Like I said every single sports scientist and physical trainer who knows what they are at would tell you the same.....

Professional footballers would have far more treatment with regards to recovery and would be far more used to the rigours of playing 3 games a week at the same level that 18-21 year olds from cavan who would never have done before....

After the game the lads hightailed it across the border and straight to the first available Spa/Jacuzzi - swimming pool/Wellness centre/
where they washed away the brusies of the evening locked away from the prying public and tucked up in bed by 11.30.

It also seems the timing was fortunate as 12 hours later the booking may no longer have been honoured (if you know what I mean) -

I was speaking to one of the selectors this morning who did make the point that the level of bruising was no worse than expected ( but he did stress considering it was Tyrone)

Jonsmith wrote:

patrique wrote:Leg weary? at U21 level?

The like of Brian Corcoran played about 6 games every week when he was at that age, top level games at that.

idiots like me played about 4 games a week, but would have played a kick around on the other nights.

Beginning to sound a bit like those poor premiership players who sometimes have to play twice a week.

Cavan V Cork final.

But surely this was back in the day when Gaelic Games were played properly, a load of lazy skillful people and none of this "Work Rate" nonsense..

Absolutely spot on Jon.

For once.

Jonsmith wrote:No this is the 3rd Ulster.. Lost the Final to Offaly in '88 when Carolan broke his leg after the Semi and McCabe and the Reilly's lost to Kerry in the '96 AI Final.

100% record in Semi Finals...

There's shades of Larry in that Jack Brady fella.. Patrick King who scored the final 2 points for Cavan (highlights on the BBC link in GT news) is Stephen King's nephew..

I was at the 1988 Ulster Final, in Newry, when Carolan played for the team. Beat .......Antrim in the final.

And how did he play that day Pat? He was having a great year I believe. It's a pity he broke his leg after the AI Semi and couldn't play against Offaly in the final...

Any of the GT Dubs coming to lend their support to Cavan today??

3 day rest?

I say play the final tomorrow morning.

For the first time in a long time, it's good to be a Cavan supporter. Well done lads, hard luck to Wexford who didn't do themselves justice with their shooting on the day, showed a lot of class pushing for the fixture change that we wanted after Wed.

Bring on Galway.

[quote="Jonsmith"]And how did he play that day Pat? He was having a great year I believe. It's a pity he broke his leg after the AI Semi and couldn't play against Offaly in the final...

Any of the GT Dubs coming to lend their support to Cavan today??



Carolan was wonderful that day, a veritable Yaya Toure of a player in those days.

Serious result these lads have given the whole county a boost!
Support up in parnell was great totally outnumbered the wexford fans!
Wexford will be kicking themselfs kicked a woeful amount of wides but cavan took their chances..
Was dissapointed with one or two in cavan colours but everyone put in a serious shift...

great result and well done to Cavan - a big boost for the entire county great to see it

Jayo Cluxton wrote:Succinctly ......

CAVAN WIN = momentum
CAVAN LOSS = tiredness ......

Well done Cavan ... tiredness me **** ....

Jayo Cluxton wrote:

Jayo Cluxton wrote:Succinctly ......

CAVAN WIN = momentum
CAVAN LOSS = tiredness ......

Well done Cavan ... tiredness me **** ....

Could well have cost us if it wasn't for Wexford's poor shooting. Our midfielder was our on his feet in the second half and had to be moved inside to full forward, our other midfielder doing a man marking job on O'Regan had to come off midway into the second half exhausted. Tiredness was evident, but thankfully the lads got through despite it.