Re: The Rugby Thread

[Thomas Clarke]

Ireland won 2, drew 1 and lost 2 last year. Italy have beaten Scotland regularly, France more than once and Wales so it was no shock for them to beat us to anybody who knows anything about the game.

Ireland have not been weaker than Scotland over the last 25 years no matter what way you bend any stats. I would also think we were stronger than Wales for most of this period.

Scotland have 2 championships in the last 25 years, Ireland have 1. Scotland have made a world cup semi final - Ireland never have.

Wales have won 4 championships since 2005, including 3 grand slams. Ireland have won 1, yet this is supposed to be Ireland's golden generation.

You are getting misled with consistency, Par. Ireland have won lots of games without winning titles. Wales have had several bad years, but when they are good they win the whole thing. Do you think that Wales would swap their grandslams for Ireland's consistency at finishing 2nd or 3rd?

[Parouisa]

So you are measuring solely on championships then - nothing else? No wooden spoons or anything? Or total games won? So Scotland could have 2 c'ships and 23 wooden spoons and Ireland 1 c'ship, countless triple crowns but that makes Scotland a better team??? Fair enough TC. Wouldn't dream of arguing with your sound logic there. C'mon Blackburn Rovers!

[Thomas Clarke]

So you are measuring solely on championships then - nothing else? No wooden spoons or anything? Or total games won? So Scotland could have 2 c'ships and 23 wooden spoons and Ireland 1 c'ship, countless triple crowns but that makes Scotland a better team??? Fair enough TC. Wouldn't dream of arguing with your sound logic there. C'mon Blackburn Rovers!

Look, comparing Ireland and Scotland is like trying to decide which of the ugly girls in the class you'd rather date. I'll let you prefer Ireland, if you wish.

To say that Ireland have been more successful than Wales is nonsense. Do you think the Welsh would trade in their grandslams for a couple more meaningless wins over Scotland or Italy? Come on man, look past the hype and the 8 page spreads in the Irish papers - Ireland are not, and never have been, any good at rugby. Treat it like I do my local GAA club: enjoy being a supporter, by all means, but let's not pretend we are any good.

[Parouisa]

Wales have won more Grand Slams that is not in dispute. Ireland's record v Wales over last 25 years stands up to any scrutiny. For the record its Pl 29 W 18 D 1 and lost 10.

Sat 5th Mar 88 5N Ireland 9 - 12 Wales Lansdowne Road
Sat 4th Feb 89 5N Wales 13 - 19 Ireland National Stadium
Sat 24th Mar 90 5N Ireland 14 - 8 Wales Lansdowne Road
Sat 16th Feb 91 5N Wales 21 - 21 Ireland National Stadium
Sat 18th Jan 92 5N Ireland 15 - 16 Wales Lansdowne Road
Sat 6th Mar 93 5N Wales 14 - 19 Ireland National Stadium
Sat 5th Feb 94 5N Ireland 15 - 17 Wales Lansdowne Road
Sat 18th Mar 95 5N Wales 12 - 16 Ireland National Stadium
Sun 4th Jun 95 WC Ireland 24 - 23 Wales Ellis Park
Sat 2nd Mar 96 5N Ireland 30 - 17 Wales Lansdowne Road
Sat 1st Feb 97 5N Wales 25 - 26 Ireland National Stadium
Sat 21st Mar 98 5N Ireland 21 - 30 Wales Lansdowne Road
Sat 20th Feb 99 5N Wales 23 - 29 Ireland Wembley Stadium
Sat 1st Apr 00 6N Ireland 19 - 23 Wales Lansdowne Road
Sat 13th Oct 01 6N Wales 6 - 36 Ireland Millennium Stadium
Sun 3rd Feb 02 6N Ireland 54 - 10 Wales Lansdowne Road
Sat 22nd Mar 03 6N Wales 24 - 25 Ireland Millennium Stadium
Sat 16th Aug 03 F Ireland 35 - 12 Wales Lansdowne Road
Sun 22nd Feb 04 6N Ireland 36 - 15 Wales Lansdowne Road
Sat 19th Mar 05 6N Wales 32 - 20 Ireland Millennium Stadium
Sun 26th Feb 06 6N Ireland 31 - 5 Wales Lansdowne Road
Sun 4th Feb 07 6N Wales 9 - 19 Ireland Millennium Stadium
Sat 8th Mar 08 6N Ireland 12 - 16 Wales Croke Park
Sat 21st Mar 09 6N Wales 15 - 17 Ireland Millennium Stadium
Sat 13th Mar 10 6N Ireland 27 - 12 Wales Croke Park
Sat 12th Mar 11 6N Wales 19 - 13 Ireland Millennium Stadium
Sat 8th Oct 11 WC Ireland 10 - 22 Wales Westpac Stadium
Sun 5th Feb 12 6N Ireland 21 - 23 Wales AVIVA Stadium
Sat 2nd Feb 13 6N Wales 22 - 30 Ireland Millennium Stadium

[Thomas Clarke]

Yes indeed. And Cork have beaten Kerry on many occasions in Munster - do you reckon the Kingdom would swap their AI's for a few more Munster titles?

You're deluding yourself, unless of course you would rather always be 2nd or 3rd. Personally, I'd rather be first today and last tomorrow, than average on both occasions.

[Parouisa]

I am not talking about swapping titles or anything of the sort. I am pointing to the indisputable fact that Ireland's record against Wales stands up to any scrutiny.

You have a dislike of rugby so diss and ridicule it at any opportunity. Just because you don't like it it seems. Unlike yourself, I am not a big fan of ice skating myself - but I don't diss it at every opportunity just because I don't like it.

[Thomas Clarke]

I am not talking about swapping titles or anything of the sort. I am pointing to the indisputable fact that Ireland's record against Wales stands up to any scrutiny.

You have a dislike of rugby so diss and ridicule it at any opportunity. Just because you don't like it it seems. Unlike yourself, I am not a big fan of ice skating myself - but I don't diss it at every opportunity just because I don't like it.

If you'll note, I haven't been dissing rugby (at least not recently), but rather the incorrect asusmption that Ireland have been successful at it. I have no objection to anyone watching, playing or enjoying rugby. The issue I have is when people get carried away with hype. Enjoy it for what it is, but don't pretend it is something else.

It wouldn't be my favourite game, but I do sometimes enjoy rugby, though I'd prefer rugby league.

And yes, I'd much prefer to watch women's ice-skating then women's rugby, but that is another matter

[Parouisa]

With all due respect TC I don't think its your place to tell me or anyone else how to enjoy a sport or at what level I should enjoy it!?!?!

Personally I find that a bit bizarre!

There is plenty of talk going on on these boards about teams that have had no recent success and are unlikely to have any soon - doesn't stop people hyping them up. It could be suggested that they should enjoy it for what it is and not pretend its something else. But I wouldn't dare .....

[Thomas Clarke]

With all due respect TC I don't think its your place to tell me or anyone else how to enjoy a sport or at what level I should enjoy it!?!?!

I suggest you read again - I never suggested anything of the sort. In fact, I said the opposite, and encouraged you to enjoy it as you wish.

I said don't pretend a side is successful when they aren't. Or, if you wish to, then don't expect others to nod and agree.

[Parouisa]

A person's concept of what constitutes success may very often be different. What does not consitute success to you may constitute success to others. For example, a county winning a provincial title after years in the wilderness may be success to their supporters whereas maybe only ultimate All Ireland success (or a Grand Slam) would constitute success to you.

May be best for you not to judge other's success based on your own lofty parameters.

[OMAR]

P

Even the priests in Father Ted tried to limit themselves to one area of major sacrifice for the 960 odd hours of abstinence. If you are trying to persevere with banishing all vices me reckons that more akin to purgeing rather than cleansing territory. Certainly a mountain too high for Omars sanity.

[Boxtyeater]

Eamonn Sweeney on the case now, looks like the game's up......

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=eamonn%20sweeney%20rugby&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CC0QqQIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.independent.ie%2Fsport%2Frugby%2Feamonn-sweeney-the-bubble-has-finally-burst-29150403.html&ei=AwtQUbmqH-qO7Ab4q4BQ&usg=AFQjCNEjaz6Inv5UuRVt_7NUgik_3jJVcg&bvm=bv.44158598,d.ZGU

[Thomas Clarke]

It's instructive to compare the fortunes of the Irish rugby team with that of their Welsh counterparts. The Irish attitude towards Wales in recent years has been one of thinly-veiled condescension. Irish rugby doesn't seem to accept Welsh rugby as an equal at all, instead seeing the boys in green as battling it out at the top with France and England while aspiring to 'move up a level' and challenge the giants of the southern hemisphere.

How laughable those notions seem the week after Wales have won their second Six Nations Championship in a row and their fourth in nine years compared to Ireland's one. There was so much talk after the autumn internationals about Wales being in crisis you half expected them to be unable to win a game. Panic, it seemed, was rife in the land of the leek. And perhaps it's that type of reaction which meant Wales once more proved to be much better than Ireland at actually winning something. They know when they're struggling and take urgent action.

In theory, Welsh rugby is always in a dire state but in practice their national team is extremely good at winning games.

________________________________________________________________________________________

In much the same way that Martin Breheny went through a phase of plagiarising Mossbags' contributions on here, Sweeney appears to be a man after my own heart.

[Boxtyeater]

Not a month on from Healy parking his tractor at the Shelbourne along comes the team captain in another tractor.....
Aside from the effect on the enviornment these machines are wreaking the buffoon parks in a loading bay. Have these spanners any modicum of intelligence at all, or does their brains cease to function after tying their laces in the morning.

Whatever about removing Kidney is there any chance of a Brain in among these gimps.....Shameful in the extreme to think they are above the law of the land. The quicker the clampers are empowered to impound these machines the better....

[Thomas Clarke]

What a joke this Lions farce really is.  Every match so far has been a hammering, with the Aussies serving up weakened provincial sides as canon fodder, for fear of any of their stars getting injured before the test series (for anyone unfamiliar with this jolly, the test matches are 3 standalone challenge games).

Really, I've never seen so much spoofing about 3 friendlies in all my days, with enormous hype and publicity surrounding every training session, press conference, injury or whatever.  

Despite such nonsense, the tour has now reached a new low, with Shane Williams called out of retirement to make up the numbers for a match this week.  A match, no doubt, that some poor fools have paid fortunes to travel to, in order to catch a glimpse of the legendary Lions.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-union/international/british-and-irish-lions-2013-shock-callup-for-shane-williams-8660541.html

I don't understand how anyone can fail to see this fiasco for the joke that it is, but I can't help but being impressed at the wonderful sales job that the rugby chiefs are able to do on an incredibly gullible public.

[OMAR]

Its an excuse for middle aged spoofers to get a 3 week jolly the other side of the world, hence its ongoing popularity.

I agree with you but in golfing terms is the Ryder Cup any different ?

[Thomas Clarke]

I agree with you but in golfing terms is the Ryder Cup any different ?

I'd say it is for a couple of reasons:

1) In the Ryder Cup, the same opposition play every 2 years, alternating between home & away, meaning that a genuine rivalry has developed. This is in contrast to a once in a career (12 years) series, without any genuine animosity between the 2 sides.

2) The Ryder Cup doesn't start with 4 weeks of tankings of 6th rate opposition. It is an intense 3 days, with the best playing the best from start to finish.

[Boxtyeater]

You're rather lucky TC in that you may not have access to RTE. There's an ad. running for Aviva that involves a middle-aged gimp in a kind of sheepskin coat bringing 2 cubs (in similiar apparrel) to Rogbee at the Aviva courtesy of a special deal.....

Only I have paid for the telly I'd put my fist through it....

Not a sport, by virtue of the fact that the principal item, ie. the ball, is invisible for 90% of the time. More of an excuse for a crowd of big burly goiys
to have a rumble and a tumble prior to a few pints of "Heino" of an afternoon.

Oh! don't forget to mention Robbo, Pauly and all the others. Got that Clarko.....

[Thomas Clarke]

O'Driscoll penalised at the breakdown twice in first 6 minutes. He is mystified, as he thinks he did nothing illegal, but apparently this referee 'interprets the rules completely differently to refs in the Northern Hemisphere'.

Unbelievable that refs can basically put their own slant on the rules - and we think that we have problems in gaelic football!

[RMDrive]

O'Driscoll penalised at the breakdown twice in first 6 minutes.  He is mystified, as he thinks he did nothing illegal, but apparently this referee 'interprets the rules completely differently to refs in the Northern Hemisphere'.  

Unbelievable that refs can basically put their own slant on the rules - and we think that we have problems in gaelic football!

True, but at least that interpretation will be consistent for the rest of the game. Great try by the ozzies.

[Thomas Clarke]

O'Driscoll penalised at the breakdown twice in first 6 minutes.  He is mystified, as he thinks he did nothing illegal, but apparently this referee 'interprets the rules completely differently to refs in the Northern Hemisphere'.  

Unbelievable that refs can basically put their own slant on the rules - and we think that we have problems in gaelic football!

True, but at least that interpretation will be consistent for the rest of the game. Great try by the ozzies.

Surely it should be consistent in every game.  Rugby is a slow game, and in rucks/mauls the ref is never more than 3 yards from the action.  This is not someone making a mistake or not seeing something like in soccer/gaelic - it's a man putting his own slant on the rules, which I think is bizarre.

Great try indeed though - Genia is a super player, and i always liked Folau from his days in the NRL.

[RMDrive]

True, but in comparison to football where the "interpretation" of the rules can vary from minute to minute, it's a bit better I reckon.

Nice response from the Lions.

[Thomas Clarke]

Aussies running out of subs here - could be survival of the fittest in the last 20 minutes

[Reality]

CAnavan wdn't lace Gooch's boots.  Disgustin and offensive to compare them in same breath.  Outside Tyrone Canavan not even in people's top 10 players.  Ridiculous bias.  Cooper far, far superior in every way.

[Thomas Clarke]

I've never seen either Canavan or Gooch play rugby, so I couldn't comment.

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