National Hurling League Divisions 1 & 2

For those who cannot read get someone to read this out to you.

The three SENIOR hurling clubs in Down play in the ANTRIM league.

Hope that settles that, even for the educationally challenged.

Now perhaps someone could explain how Antrim were in two all Ireland finals at hurling if they only won one semi, beating Kilkenny. sorry offaly, sorry Kilkenny in the semi?

And maybe someone should tell me why I bother with a scumbag of a whipping boy?

The Puke wrote:

North Side Gael wrote:

The Puke wrote:Down defeating Laois all but assures that it will be a Clare V Limerick Final in division 2 & that Westmeath will be relegated....All is not well in the laois camp by the sounds of it, players not too enamored with their new manager and county board, it is alleged only 12 lads showed up for training during the week


Heard Cork and Tipp played out a fairly poor draw, John O'Brien got a second yellow for hitting Eoin Cadogan an uppercut, NSG will be gutted to see the ref not following the letter of the law by giving him a second yellow as opposed to a straight red....

The Dubs went down to a late Eanna Ryan goal after hitting the bones of 20 wides, supposedly in front of a a big crowd(for this time of year) in Parnell Park...Between these two and kilkenny for a spot in the league final

While Offaly's win over Wexford all but guarentees them division 1 hurling next year and sees Wexford heading back towards Division 2

Striking is striking, red card, when we start applying the laws we do have we can start looking at the ones not needed and the ones we need to have, a pointless exercise if you dont.

We had two men sent off against us in that game in mullingar, terrible discipline problem westmesth have, although i refrain from negative comments about them

Im happy enough with our win, keeps us in third place.

I thought mulcahy was on the money we need clare, wexford, antrim and laois in the top tier, possibly carlow and down also, if we are to look at proper development.

The time has come for a proper over haul of the system, but ive already a thread on that, several in fact lol.

They need to bridge the gap in standard between 1 & 2 and that is only going to happen by either extending division one into a 12 or 14 team league like it was back a few years ago or reducing the teams in divison 1 and 2.....

A top division with Kilkenny, Galway, Dublin, Waterford, Cork and Tipp and a division 2 of Clare, Limerick, Offaly, Wexford, Laois and Antrim would be fine and competative, semifinals and relegation playoffs could be introduced to guarentee more games but it them leaves the likes of Down, Carlow, Westmeath & Kerry in a bad position as they are a notch above the teams below them, it is a very tough balancing act, if you return to the old structure then the threat of relegation is as good as gone for most teams

Would have to agree re the top 12, but if you had div 1, section a and b, you could have 2 sections of 8, which could included those on the verge (of becoming a team who needs to play the best teams if they are to develop further), into sections of eight, not just antrim and laois but carlow, down, kerry and west meath.

These teams need mixed with the best, if you have antrim and laois as top 12 teams, these other 4 teams will make up the minority, of a new div1, it will help all improve, it will increase revenue for these counties to put back into hurling and do what dublin have done. The bottom of this could play against the winners of div 2 with the winners staying up, im not normally in favour of non relegation but i think after these teams the gulf in class becomes massive. Although i dont think before long it will close as wicklow, derry and armagh are progessing well.

In my eyes its simple, div1 with two sections of eight, div 2 to be one section and include amalgamated sides. This will improve and contribute to development.

patrique wrote:For those who cannot read get someone to read this out to you.

The three SENIOR hurling clubs in Down play in the ANTRIM league.

Hope that settles that, even for the educationally challenged.

Now perhaps someone could explain how Antrim were in two all Ireland finals at hurling if they only won one semi, beating Kilkenny. sorry offaly, sorry Kilkenny in the semi?

And maybe someone should tell me why I bother with a scumbag of a whipping boy?

Spo Down have at least 21 hurling clubs to pick from in that case, sure that is a fine pick.....1 or 2 wins out of nearly 30, still doesn't justify much...

Still don't see how they are the "greatest success story of the gaa"


yet more hyperbole and the chip keeps on getting bigger

I don't think theres anything wrong with the current system. Like you see the likes of Limerick and Clare putting out a very strong team in division 2. I would like to see semi finals in division 1 and 2 which will it very competitive.

Clare are cowardly,whipping boy scumbags.

Not worth writing about in matters of hurling.

And serial losers if we are to apply standards set by the aptly named Puke.

I admit he nearly saw sense, but rather than admit he had erred, decided to keep digging.

Maybe it is a scumbag trait.

patrique wrote:Clare are cowardly,whipping boy scumbags.

Not worth writing about in matters of hurling.

And serial losers if we are to apply standards set by the aptly named Puke.

I admit he nearly saw sense, but rather than admit he had erred, decided to keep digging.

Maybe it is a scumbag trait.

What has this got to do with Clare, you seem hellbent on bringing them into all your arguements...Your theory of the Down Hurlers as being the greatest success story in the GAA has been shown up as nothing more than clamtrap at this stage but you seem more interested in trying to gode me for some reason...Shame you couldn't stay on the topic at hand rather than going down your usual route of taking the debate off topic.....

But your inferiority complex with regards Northern Hurling is there for all to be seen at this stage and your last post along with the jubberish you posted on the top 25 scores thread(again taken off topic with another attack on Clare hurling for no particulat reason) just shows how deep the chip on your shoulder is with it




I must say I find it highly entertaining, you seem to have a standard way of debating, firstly waffle on with plenty of hyperbole and inconsequential non sense and then when you get pulled up on the validity of it you react rather than admitting you may well be overstating things by taking pot shots at Clare hurling which has little to do with your delusions about Northern Hurling



I bear no ill will against any of the northern teams and I wish them all the best and would love to see them bridge the gap in the future, the carry on of the down hurlers certainly hasn't enamored me to them but I wouldn't begrdge them one bit of success, but it is fools like your goodself pat who will hold northern teams back with all the bile towards southern teams, your glorification of mediocrity and putting up good performances(losing by 11 points ) just sums up your narrow mindset.....


So I would kindly ask you to cop onto yourself, if you don't want to be involved in these debates then fair enough but stop acting like a child when you are called out on your hyperbole and bluster

hurlingguru wrote:I don't think theres anything wrong with the current system. Like you see the likes of Limerick and Clare putting out a very strong team in division 2. I would like to see semi finals in division 1 and 2 which will it very competitive.

I would have agreed a couple of years ago HG but now i think to myself, imagine a group, dublin, Galway, Wexford, Dublin, Laois, Antrim, Carlow and Clare (all just for talks sake) imagine the games this would bring, the opportunities for youth, i would maybe have a div1 winner and a div1 sheild to try and gain silverware for the smaller teams involved but all it all it would be better to have league like this than with the walsh cup etc etc, better off scrapping these and making a league that will develop teams and allow the top boys to stay top boys everyone is happy in my eyes.

I do reserve concern for the likes of derry, wicklow, armagh, etc who are trying to develop but that is why i have talked of amalgamated hurling teams, with fermanagh and cavan for example, so that their league too would be one which is capable of developing teams and gaining extra gate revenue for these teams.

But like i say, i did agree with your view at one stage and sort of do now still, but i think we can do so much more with our beautiful game.

What a barclay's banker!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Puke, YOU called Down hurlers SCUMBAGS. YOU DID THAT.

Finally after another 700 posts you sow the seeds of some sort of apology but then continue to say I did something!!!! All I did was try to get you to see the error you made.

I have travelled to view 4 or 5 munster finals, 12 Leinster finals, and some 30 all Ireland finals, inter county, all hurling, over the years. I have also gone to league games in Cork and Dublin and Galway, and countless club games. I do not do this because I have a hang up about SOUTHERN HURLERS.

I LOVE Southern hurlers, that is why I do it.

I pointed out the geographical difficulty faced by Down and Antrim. That will never change even if they have 10,000 clubs. Loads of clubs in the USA but they ain't gonna win the all Ireland BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO ONE TO COMPETE WITH.

Just like Antrim and Down, and I pointed this out to illustrate just how successful Down hurling is. British soccer clubs say they struggled in Europe after being banned for FIVE miserable years after Heysel. Antrim and Down are permanently banned from good competition for geographical reasons.

So how does a totally isolated hurling "stronghold" of about 7 miles, manage to beat KILKENNY????? That is a sporting miracle. No football in the Ards, just hurling, they are as devoted as anyone in Kilkenny, as are the Glensmen in Antrim, another no football zone.

So Down, a tiny isolated community, THREE clubs who only play hurling, who churn out stars year after year (If you know anything about hurling look at Davy Fitz and Noel Keith and tell me honestly which of them was a GREAT goalkeeper) no one to test themselves against until they are 21 years old, apart from derry and Antrim, and they sometimes appear in Division ONE!!! And Beat KILKENNY.

That is their achievement. And that is who you called scumbags.

Now I am dropping the matter as you have tried to offer an oluive branch, but please Puke, try to understand what I am saying.

All of my posts about Clare being "whipping boys" are reprehensible. I already know that and did so when I posted them. They were designed to shock. Not a bit of truth in them.

Hopefully you also see some, even a tiny bit, of goodness in Down hurlers, who overcome immense odds to even field a team.

All the best, Puke.

Back to normality.

North Side Gael wrote:

hurlingguru wrote:I don't think theres anything wrong with the current system. Like you see the likes of Limerick and Clare putting out a very strong team in division 2. I would like to see semi finals in division 1 and 2 which will it very competitive.

I would have agreed a couple of years ago HG but now i think to myself, imagine a group, dublin, Galway, Wexford, Dublin, Laois, Antrim, Carlow and Clare (all just for talks sake) imagine the games this would bring, the opportunities for youth, i would maybe have a div1 winner and a div1 sheild to try and gain silverware for the smaller teams involved but all it all it would be better to have league like this than with the walsh cup etc etc, better off scrapping these and making a league that will develop teams and allow the top boys to stay top boys everyone is happy in my eyes.

I do reserve concern for the likes of derry, wicklow, armagh, etc who are trying to develop but that is why i have talked of amalgamated hurling teams, with fermanagh and cavan for example, so that their league too would be one which is capable of developing teams and gaining extra gate revenue for these teams.

But like i say, i did agree with your view at one stage and sort of do now still, but i think we can do so much more with our beautiful game.

It is a catch 22 situation, no matter what you do there are going to be losers given that there is a gap between the top 6 and the next 4 or 5 teams and then the next 4 or 5 teams....A system will never suit all of them unfortunately but I don't think the current set up benefits many, maybe bring in 2 up 2 down into both divisions and make relegation a real possibility for more than the usual suspects or evern make it 2 divisions of 7 teams with 2 up 2 down.......I can see why some would want the return of the old structure and I can see the benefits of the like likes of Tipp & Kilkenny playing in Antrim/Laois would hel raise the profile but shipping 4 or 5 heavy beatings a year isn't going to bring them on either it is about finding levels and getting good competative games, the likes of Laois and Antrim are getting that in division 2 now but the problem is that the teams like Clare/Limerick/Offaly/Wexford haven't got enough quality games in division 2 over the past few seasons to help improve them and ready them for championship hurling and help develop their younger players, the games in division 2 are normally tight but the intensity and hurling is well below that of division one.....

patrique wrote:What a barclay's banker!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Puke, YOU called Down hurlers SCUMBAGS. YOU DID THAT.

Finally after another 700 posts you sow the seeds of some sort of apology but then continue to say I did something!!!! All I did was try to get you to see the error you made.

I have travelled to view 4 or 5 munster finals, 12 Leinster finals, and some 30 all Ireland finals, inter county, all hurling, over the years. I have also gone to league games in Cork and Dublin and Galway, and countless club games. I do not do this because I have a hang up about SOUTHERN HURLERS.

I LOVE Southern hurlers, that is why I do it.

I pointed out the geographical difficulty faced by Down and Antrim. That will never change even if they have 10,000 clubs. Loads of clubs in the USA but they ain't gonna win the all Ireland BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO ONE TO COMPETE WITH.

Just like Antrim and Down, and I pointed this out to illustrate just how successful Down hurling is. British soccer clubs say they struggled in Europe after being banned for FIVE miserable years after Heysel. Antrim and Down are permanently banned from good competition for geographical reasons.

So how does a totally isolated hurling "stronghold" of about 7 miles, manage to beat KILKENNY????? That is a sporting miracle. No football in the Ards, just hurling, they are as devoted as anyone in Kilkenny, as are the Glensmen in Antrim, another no football zone.

So Down, a tiny isolated community, THREE clubs who only play hurling, who churn out stars year after year (If you know anything about hurling look at Davy Fitz and Noel Keith and tell me honestly which of them was a GREAT goalkeeper) no one to test themselves against until they are 21 years old, apart from derry and Antrim, and they sometimes appear in Division ONE!!! And Beat KILKENNY.

That is their achievement. And that is who you called scumbags.

Now I am dropping the matter as you have tried to offer an oluive branch, but please Puke, try to understand what I am saying.

All of my posts about Clare being "whipping boys" are reprehensible. I already know that and did so when I posted them. They were designed to shock. Not a bit of truth in them.

Hopefully you also see some, even a tiny bit, of goodness in Down hurlers, who overcome immense odds to even field a team.

All the best, Puke.

Back to normality.

I have said from the start I have nothing against Down hurling but respect is a two way street, it is not something that is a given you have to earn it.....I couldn't care less about their geographical location you don't throw the towel in and start timbering lads for the sake of it just because you are shipping a beating....It is the act of scumbags on a hurling field and it is drilled into every young fella the length of the country that you don't go out and carry on like that on a field as it is cowardly in the extreme.....You cannot expect lads to say ye are great men after they showed nothing but cynicism and wrecklessness, you have to earn respect.....

I have also stated that i wouldn't begrudge Down one bit of success and I truly mean that but as I stated earlier I won't change my mind to the carry on of their players til they start acting like hurlers on the field and not cornerboys....

I have no problem with you sticking up for your own but your fawning over Northern Hurling is sycophantic in the extreme, to proclaim Down's hurlers as the greatest success story in the history of the GAA shows a hell of a lot of parochial bias and hyperbole....As i stated earlier you look at the success a tiny county like Offaly has in two different codes given that you could nearly split the county into two different areas North for Football and South for Hurling and some of the greats they have produced in their time just shows how biased you.....


Like I say I don't particularly care what you say about Clare hurling as I know they are the ramblings of a bitter man, it is easy say now they were ment to shock when they did no such thing apart from take topics off on tangents and help you avoid the issue at hand

The Puke wrote:

patrique wrote:What a barclay's banker!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Puke, YOU called Down hurlers SCUMBAGS. YOU DID THAT.

Finally after another 700 posts you sow the seeds of some sort of apology but then continue to say I did something!!!! All I did was try to get you to see the error you made.

I have travelled to view 4 or 5 munster finals, 12 Leinster finals, and some 30 all Ireland finals, inter county, all hurling, over the years. I have also gone to league games in Cork and Dublin and Galway, and countless club games. I do not do this because I have a hang up about SOUTHERN HURLERS.

I LOVE Southern hurlers, that is why I do it.

I pointed out the geographical difficulty faced by Down and Antrim. That will never change even if they have 10,000 clubs. Loads of clubs in the USA but they ain't gonna win the all Ireland BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO ONE TO COMPETE WITH.

Just like Antrim and Down, and I pointed this out to illustrate just how successful Down hurling is. British soccer clubs say they struggled in Europe after being banned for FIVE miserable years after Heysel. Antrim and Down are permanently banned from good competition for geographical reasons.

So how does a totally isolated hurling "stronghold" of about 7 miles, manage to beat KILKENNY????? That is a sporting miracle. No football in the Ards, just hurling, they are as devoted as anyone in Kilkenny, as are the Glensmen in Antrim, another no football zone.

So Down, a tiny isolated community, THREE clubs who only play hurling, who churn out stars year after year (If you know anything about hurling look at Davy Fitz and Noel Keith and tell me honestly which of them was a GREAT goalkeeper) no one to test themselves against until they are 21 years old, apart from derry and Antrim, and they sometimes appear in Division ONE!!! And Beat KILKENNY.

That is their achievement. And that is who you called scumbags.

Now I am dropping the matter as you have tried to offer an oluive branch, but please Puke, try to understand what I am saying.

All of my posts about Clare being "whipping boys" are reprehensible. I already know that and did so when I posted them. They were designed to shock. Not a bit of truth in them.

Hopefully you also see some, even a tiny bit, of goodness in Down hurlers, who overcome immense odds to even field a team.

All the best, Puke.

Back to normality.

I have said from the start I have nothing against Down hurling but respect is a two way street, it is not something that is a given you have to earn it.....I couldn't care less about their geographical location you don't throw the towel in and start timbering lads for the sake of it just because you are shipping a beating....It is the act of scumbags on a hurling field and it is drilled into every young fella the length of the country that you don't go out and carry on like that on a field as it is cowardly in the extreme.....You cannot expect lads to say ye are great men after they showed nothing but cynicism and wrecklessness, you have to earn respect.....

I have also stated that i wouldn't begrudge Down one bit of success and I truly mean that but as I stated earlier I won't change my mind to the carry on of their players til they start acting like hurlers on the field and not cornerboys....

I have no problem with you sticking up for your own but your fawning over Northern Hurling is sycophantic in the extreme, to proclaim Down's hurlers as the greatest success story in the history of the GAA shows a hell of a lot of parochial bias and hyperbole....As i stated earlier you look at the success a tiny county like Offaly has in two different codes given that you could nearly split the county into two different areas North for Football and South for Hurling and some of the greats they have produced in their time just shows how biased you.....


Like I say I don't particularly care what you say about Clare hurling as I know they are the ramblings of a bitter man, it is easy say now they were ment to shock when they did no such thing apart from take topics off on tangents and help you avoid the issue at hand

"What a ****, what a f###ing div" to quote Pete Docherty.

Absolute cringing moron, cowardly back stabbing, low life, scumbag.

The above is just YOU.

Nothing whatsoever against Clare, underachievers given their geographical location, but like all hurlers, the salt of the earth.

Even the shower from the 1990s who "timbered" their way to two all Ireland's with only one "hurler" on the team. Not a Danny Hughes I admit but McMahon could hurl.

But the rest of them tried, and that is what *****.

ah yes when your opinion is contradicted rather than debating the issue at hand when called out on your hyperbole another dig at Clare comes out


You are consistent anyway ...

And I know you are a scunmbag half wit but OFFALY borders TIPPERARY. It also borders GALWAY.

Now numb nuts, would you with your expert analysis say that Tipp and Galway are maybe better at hurling over the last 130 years that Armagh and Antrim?????????? THINK before you answer.

Now that is what I mean when I say GEOGRAPHICAL reasons you thick unparented eejit.

Geography is to do with places. Offaly is in Leinster, as is KILF####INGKENNY, WEXFORD, DUBLIN, LAOIS, CARLOW and WESTMEATH>

So from age 8 you would be playing against better competition than DOWN, due to GEOGRAPHICAL reasons you thick idiot.

That was my FINAL (that means last) post on the subject.

Apologies to everyone else but I tried.

And a genuine sorry to the rest of you.

Although I have hated Down and Down hurlers for 50 years,as they would be the ONLY opposition to Antrim, ye have to admire them and they deserve better than what they got on here.

Sorry again.

RMD must be on a sabbatical......

patrique wrote:And I know you are a scunmbag half wit but OFFALY borders TIPPERARY. It also borders GALWAY.

Now numb nuts, would you with your expert analysis say that Tipp and Galway are maybe better at hurling over the last 130 years that Armagh and Antrim?????????? THINK before you answer.

Now that is what I mean when I say GEOGRAPHICAL reasons you thick unparented eejit.

Geography is to do with places. Offaly is in Leinster, as is KILF####INGKENNY, WEXFORD, DUBLIN, LAOIS, CARLOW and WESTMEATH>

So from age 8 you would be playing against better competition than DOWN, due to GEOGRAPHICAL reasons you thick idiot.

Indeed because North Tipp and South Galway would be bastian's of Football alright , still doesn't explain the fact that a county of less than 70k has produced all stars in every position on the field in both codes(the first to ever do so) and have have plenty of success in both codes despite being in a far more competitive province than Down....I am not saying Offaly are the greatest success story of the gaa as I don't think that is for anyone to really bestow on any team but they are far more worthy of the claim than the Down hurlers

How would geography affect the standard at 8 years of age, that would pretty much boil down to the effort being made at primary school level and have nothing to do with the fact they are from Leinster and a hell of a lot more to do with the lack of effort being made in the county at underage level and how it will always play second fiddle to football in Down, yet you seem to think they are the greatest success story of the GAA for no other reason than they are giving it a go......Unless there is a genetic predisposition for these 8 year olds there should be no disernable gap in standard between an average 8 year old from Kilkenny and an average 8 year from Down or anywhere else for that matter, it all comes down to coaching after this, looking at Feile results from the past few years it shows that there isn't a huge difference between the 12-14 year olds around the country in terms of abilty, granted teams from Cork, Kilkenny etc may well have a bit more balance but clubs from Westmeath, Longford, Antrim etc are consistently winning titles in the Feile, so again illustrates that in terms of natural ability and standard faced they are able to compete, even clubs from areas like Leitrim, Divisions 2,3 & 6 were won by counties from outside the main 9 or 10 counties, surely if the standard was so high in them ten compared to the lesser counties then surely they would have won these divisions.....The problem then lies in the next few years which are the most important to a players development, but to say the standard they are facing from the age of 8 is better, despite the fact that at that age they wouldn't be facing anyone from outside their county is yet more hyperbole and distorting of facts


I must say I find it funny that a man that tried to compare the Gerry Quinn incident to the Para's & Bloody Sunday is calling me an idiot, you couldn't make it up

Boxtyeater wrote:RMD must be on a sabbatical......

Indeed boxty, but as a seasoned auld stock of the internet I am sure it comes as no surprise to you to see Pat resort to the attack the poster and not the post....Disappointing really but seeing as he seems to be full of bile and bluster I am not surprised but it is disappointing to see


No doubt he will make another few grandstanding posts waffling on about how Down are mighty men because they are isolated and then going off on a tangent about Clare being whipping boys before stating yet again it is his final post on the matter for the 4th or 5th time.....

He is predictable I will give him that

No sabbatical lads. Just don't see the need to get involved yet. These are 2 lads who are well able to argue their points and the name calling (so far at least) seems to be part of the argument rather than anything else.

RMDrive wrote:No sabbatical lads. Just don't see the need to get involved yet. These are 2 lads who are well able to argue their points and the name calling (so far at least) seems to be part of the argument rather than anything else.

I wish the arguments were a little more passionate ....

Jayo Cluxton wrote:

RMDrive wrote:No sabbatical lads. Just don't see the need to get involved yet. These are 2 lads who are well able to argue their points and the name calling (so far at least) seems to be part of the argument rather than anything else.

I wish the arguments were a little more passionate ....

I will spend the next six years wondering how Eskimos can stick the cold.

And then another 6 about Hottentots and the heat.

And then I will wonder that despite its population why Clare are bloody awful at Alpine skiing. And how come the Swiss, with a population nowhere near Britain are so good at it.

Enough to occupy myself with there.

Carlow 2-15 Westmeath 1-14
Laois 3-16 Clare 3-13

Not a great performance by Carlow, using an experimental side. Westmeath are now relegated. A Liam McCarthy team playing Division 3 hurling? If only we had beaten Down we would be in with a shout of promotion.

Good win by Laois.

Antrim will be interesting tomorrow, I fear the worst.

Lose to Limerick in the last game and both Westmeath and Antrim in Division 3.

Well done to Dublin who came back from a late Cats goal to earn a draw. Too many wides again tonight though - they really should have won. Similar to last week. If they had their shooting hurls on we could be looking at 2 League Finals!

Kilkenny, to be fair, have regressed dramatically. The much vaunted "panel" is clearly a myth. OK, they were missing a few regulars, Tommy, JJ, Tyrell and Shefflin to name them, but this Kilkenny team are over the hill....Time for Cody to shovel off and bring in someone with fresher ideas.
Dublin hurled well but are overly wasteful, some horrific wides. Dublin could take Kilkenny in the championship and there perseverance tonight, allied to squirrelling out the draw, will stand to them come the Summer.

Kilkenny are finished.