Re: Student Wasters

**OMAR** Sun Nov 07, 2010 10:13 am

Sebastian wrote:Right, so the colleges of Ireland need money badly?

An indiscriminate increase in the registration fee of €1500 is not the way to solve this problem.

Increasing the registration fee or lowering /scrapping the third level grant will be entirely counter productive. This will prevent students from less affluent backgrounds (like me and many others) from graduating due to the steep costs involved. On average graduates earn more than non graduates - so if the State invests in a student's education, it can expect to earn multiples of the initial investment in future tax revenues.

I believe this can in part be paid for by charging privately educated students full tuition fees.

The State subsidises all courses in the country regardless of a person's financial circumstances. These fees range from €5000 for an Arts course up to €10,000 for Medicine or Engineering at my university - similar to that of the fees charged at Private schools (which are all state subsidised). 27,000 Irish children are currently educated through the private system at secondary level.. If parents are willing to pay thousands of euro for eduction at that level, they can afford to pay for full university tuition fees - Simple.

Country can't afford a free Education system for the three tiers- But I agree charging people who can't afford it is counter productive in terms of overseas investment - tech economy an all that.

1) Reduce funding for Private secondary schools - If they want to be private well make them properly private

2) Means test the registration fee and vary it by the cost of the course (ie Higher fee for medicine)

3) the bigest win would be to charge for it afterwards - work out a rough cost for the years you spend in college
this sits like a "loan from the government" - to be repaid once you are earning more than €15k per annum - say 10% tax on any earnings above this amount until you have paid off the cost. If you reach thirty -and still haven't paid it back it gets written off

**North Side Gael** Sun Nov 07, 2010 11:59 am

2) Means test the registration fee and vary it by the cost of the course (ie Higher fee for medicine)

3) the bigest win would be to charge for it afterwards - work out a rough cost for the years you spend in college
this sits like a "loan from the government" - to be repaid once you are earning more than €15k per annum - say 10% tax on any earnings above this amount until you have paid off the cost. If you reach thirty -and still haven't paid it back it gets written off

[/quote]

On the point two i say i have to disagree with one part, this would create a system where by for example, the poor couild become nurses, but only the rich could become doctors, doesnt seem right to me, although means tested is a good idea.

The second part seems like a good idea, im not in favour of any charges for education as i find it counter productive for any future boom in the economy where we would have to employ more workers from abroad to carry out educated posts due to the down turn in people going into higher education with fees putting them off, however it seems quite like the current british system which i feel is working pretty well for me.

**OMAR** Sun Nov 07, 2010 12:05 pm

North Side Gael wrote:2) Means test the registration fee and vary it by the cost of the course (ie Higher fee for medicine)

3) the bigest win would be to charge for it afterwards - work out a rough cost for the years you spend in college
this sits like a "loan from the government" - to be repaid once you are earning more than €15k per annum - say 10% tax on any earnings above this amount until you have paid off the cost. If you reach thirty -and still haven't paid it back it gets written off

On the point two i say i have to disagree with one part, this would create a system where by for example, the poor couild become nurses, but only the rich could become doctors, doesnt seem right to me, although means tested is a good idea.

The second part seems like a good idea, im not in favour of any charges for education as i find it counter productive for any future boom in the economy where we would have to employ more workers from abroad to carry out educated posts due to the down turn in people going into higher education with fees putting them off, however it seems quite like the current british system which i feel is working pretty well for me.[/quote]

Sorry - Phrased point two badly
What I meant is that all registration fees are Means tested and all Courses have a variable fee
If you qualify under the means test you should have fees paid regardless of cost
If you can afford to pay - you should pay more for medicine/vetinary than a three year arts degree.

**North Side Gael** Sun Nov 07, 2010 12:21 pm

no bother, got what you mean now seems the ticket, cant see this government listening even though its a good idea.

**hipster 2** Sun Nov 07, 2010 5:58 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] . Yes look at them students they look well armed

**Grenvile** Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:11 pm

More brave students protest in London. Good to see them posing for photos of themselves in front of the broken windows, makes for a good Facebook profile image I suppose. And this was about education!?

Pity the Police in London weren't as well organised as the Gardai..

**Jayo Cluxton** Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:24 pm

Double student grants I say! Alcohol is gone very expensive and weapons are not cheap either!

**hipster 2** Thu Nov 11, 2010 7:43 pm

you mean jonsmith behave like nazis

**Grenvile** Thu Nov 11, 2010 8:09 pm

The Nazi's were superbly organised, I wouldn't go so far as to give the Gardai that sort of praise but to compare the situations:

Ireland: Protest turns ugly as troublemakers trespass in government buildings and begin to throw bottles and bricks at Gardai, hitting people being ejected from the Dept of Finance also. Within 10 minutes the Riot Squad moved in and dealt with the trouble. The whole thing was over in less than an hour.

England: Protest turns ugly, windows smashed and fires lit, a small force of Police try to defend the entrance to the building being attacked but to no avail. No back up arrives and eventually with damage done and the riot already out of control the support arrives well over an hour later. Metro Police Commissioner says it's "An embarrassment" that they didn't see it coming.

Full credit to the Gardai who didn't let this happen. Obviously every thug who doesn't get his way will claim police brutality, violation of rights etc but nobody pays much heed to those idiots and they were in the minority of people who protested peacefully and effectively that day.

**North Side Gael** Thu Nov 11, 2010 8:11 pm

Totally agree with the student protests only thing these f**kers understand!

All youve got to do is listen to brian cowen responding to rabittes request for a general election he blamed everyone else saying they where exaggerating all this the same day the IMF said they still were not impressed by the cuts the FF government had brought in, yea brian pull the other one, these people sit in power and tell us how to protest, go and f**k.

**mullins** Thu Nov 11, 2010 8:46 pm

North Side Gael wrote:Totally agree with the student protests only thing these f**kers understand!

All youve got to do is listen to brian cowen responding to rabittes request for a general election he blamed everyone else saying they where exaggerating all this the same day the IMF said they still were not impressed by the cuts the FF government had brought in, yea brian pull the other one, these people sit in power and tell us how to protest, go and f**k.

I agree with you post totally NSG ,the way Ireland has changed in the last 20 years is sick and twisted..

**hipster 2** Thu Nov 11, 2010 10:55 pm

jonsmith the nazis were not organised they were bullies just like the guards were last week

**Grenvile** Thu Nov 11, 2010 11:07 pm

hipster 2 wrote:jonsmith the nazis were not organised they were bullies just like the guards were last week

In terms of organisation, planning and use of resources the Nazis were second to none hipster. Their complete lack of humanity or morals doesn't change that. Comparing dispersing a violent mob of protesters with slaughtering 6 Million Jews is a tad over the top no?

Personally I think the Gardai were a little soft in their handling of the issue, pepper spraying the first few lines of troublemakers would have had the crowd dispersing a lot faster than pushing them with shields and the odd whack of a baton but that's the Gardai for you.. Forever easyhanded..

**patrique** Thu Nov 11, 2010 11:31 pm

Jonsmith wrote:More brave students protest in London. Good to see them posing for photos of themselves in front of the broken windows, makes for a good Facebook profile image I suppose. And this was about education!?

Pity the Police in London weren't as well organised as the Gardai..

I didn't see ANY students causing trouble.

More's the pity.

Ah to remember the good old days when you could just shoot protesters, Bloody Sunday, Tinnamen Square, Peterloo.......

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