Re: The non EPL thread

[Thomas Clarke]

Amidst all the nonsense between Man Utd and Liverpool this weekend, the final of the African Cup of Nations was all but ignored. Despite the game being of very poor quality, Zambia's victory over the Ivory Coast was a real feel-good story. Huge underdogs and lacking the star names of their opponents, Zambia won 8-7 on penalities after a goal-less game (as he did in the 2006 final, Didier Drogba again choked on a penalty late in normal time).

What made Zambia's win special was that it was achieved in Libreville, Gabon, a few hundred yards from the scene of the terrible plane crash that wiped out the Zambian national team in 1993. This was evidently a very emotional victory for the Zambians, and shows that soccer can, occasionally, bring joy to people. Someone should tell the clowns at Anfield, Old Trafford etc...

[The Puke]

A very high standard of penaltry taking it must be said as well, especially given how much the penalty spot was cutting up. The Zambia keeper Mweene impressed me in normal time and it was no surprise to see him saving two (although one was retaken) and also slotting home a very cool peno to bring it to sudden death.

Very nice touch at the end by the Zambia manager Renard carrying one of the injured Zambia players 60+ yards in his arms to his teammates to celebrate

[Thomas Clarke]

Yes, agreed on all counts there Puke. I actually thought they may change the end they were shooting into, had the spot deteriorated much more. In fairness to Drogba, he did hit his penalty in the shootout with real conviction - if he had done the same in normal time...

But it was to be Zambia's night, and it is hard to imagine that 2012 will present us with a more emotional victory than this.

[The Puke]

[Loyal2TheRoyal]

How ironic. Barcelona's two greatest supporters on this forum talking about the African Cup of Nations on the weekend that Barca fell 10 points behind Madrid.

Borussia Dortmund back on top of the Bundesliga. All my teams about to win their Leagues: Dortmund, Madrid, City and AC Milan.

[Thomas Clarke]

How ironic. Barcelona's two greatest supporters on this forum talking about the African Cup of Nations on the weekend that Barca fell 10 points behind Madrid.

Well, I felt that, as it was the final, the African Cup of Nations was more newsworthy.

I should also remind you that, in the last 3 years, Barca have won all 3 Spanish titles and 2 European Cups. And 7 of their players started in the victorious world cup final for Spain. So yes, enjoy the 10 point lead - good to see Madrid finally doing something to (in a very small way) justify all their expenditure.

[Parouisa]

Rangers into administration and heading for the abyss. And some people question the existence of a god ....

[OMAR]

Rangers into administration and heading for the abyss. And some people question the existence of a god ....

Their undoing being a failure to remit taxation to her royal majesty
something a tad ironic about that.
Will be interesting to see if the previous chairman gets his knighthood removed (a la Fred the Shred)

[Thomas Clarke]

Happy to be corrected by Omar or B&W, but my understanding is that it isn't the worst day for Rangers. They owe £50m to the tax man, yet administration may result in all that being wiped away - not a bad day in my book. Aside from losing a few players and a couple of tea ladies, the only real loss to the club may be the 10 points they drop this season?

(I'd genuinely love to be corrected on this one!)

[OMAR]

Happy to be corrected by Omar or B&W, but my understanding is that it isn't the worst day for Rangers. They owe £50m to the tax man, yet administration may result in all that being wiped away - not a bad day in my book. Aside from losing a few players and a couple of tea ladies, the only real loss to the club may be the 10 points they drop this season?

(I'd genuinely love to be corrected on this one!)

To come out of adminstration successfully you need the agreement of a certain portion of the creditors
75% by means of a CVA (creditors voluntary agreement) ideally what happens is that an overborrowed business reduces its debt or interest rate burder to a sustainable level - it will only work if the business is profitable and can support a certain level of debt. This one is complex because Whyte is in fact a secured creditor and ranks ahead of the revenue. If 75% of debthlders agree 100% l are bound - but if the revenue are owed more than 25% of the total debt they have a blocking stake.
In reality it will depend on who the creditors are - if the are a "cohesive unit" it can be possible -
If they are not its impossible - for e.g one of the toughest examnierships )the irish versios is if you have a profitable business but the rents are too high and you can't pay the rent. Its a nightmare if you have 25 different landlords.

[OMAR]

TC

To directly answer your question - The debt does not get wiped - In theory it gets restructred to a
level that can be serviced by the business allowing the business reasonable leeway to propser although in a leaner and more effecient manner. But the devils in the detail as the definition of a Level than can be reasonable sercived will probably start £50m apart. And thats where the advisors come in (who are the ones that are really laighing) I have dealt with a competitor of the firm that have been appointed - who also acted as administrators for a large british football club once upon a time.
They will hit the ground running with an 8-10 man strong team. £100,000 a week in fees give or take a few bob. The creditors will appoint a corporate finance house from London who probably won't even charge by the hour they will just look for a 10% success fee. And all thats small change before the laywers go to work. which straight away takes a fairly hefty chunk of the pie.

The lenders will look to bleed the club for every spare cent in cash flow and insist they reduce wages - luxury overheads etc etc.
The borrowers will make the argument that unless they have the money to buy good players and pay high wages they will end up like motherwell or cowdenbeath - no champions league and no sky money and no season tickets and nothing to pay the debt anyway.

They will end up somewhere in the middle with probably 50%-75% of the debt written off and converted into some equity swaps in the event that the club ever gets bought by an Arab.
The advisors will get paid first

[Thomas Clarke]

Thanks Omar, that certainly paints a much more appealing picture than some of the papers were suggesting!

I had initially hoped for complete ruin and, when it looked like they could come out of it relatively unscathed, I was disappointed. Still, leaving them a financially impotent, disgraced, mid-table side is a fair compromise!

[The Puke]

I see Messi broke the record for the most number of goals scored by an individual in the knockout stages of the Champions League last night. He now has 19, Raul and Shevchenko both have 18, Inzaghi is back in 4th place with 16 while Wayne Rooney is in fifth place with 14.



Messi is now 6th in the all time list if Champions League goalscorers with 44. Raul is someway out in front with 71

Raul (71),
Ruud van Nistelrooy (56),
Thierry Henry (55),
Shevchenko (48)
Inzaghi (46)
Messi (44)

Given that Messi is only 24 you would have to fancy his chances of beating Raul's total. Amazing all the same that close to half of his goals have come in the knock out stages

[Thomas Clarke]

Messi's determination to get into the box for Barca's 3rd goal typified the man. He has all the talent in the world, yet still is bursting a gut in the hope of getting on the end of a cross in the 85th minute.

I was a huge Zidane fan, and was also a big admirer of the original Ronaldo, but Messi is a level above both of them. He is the finest footballer we have seen since Maradona.

[bocerty]

Thanks Omar, that certainly paints a much more appealing picture than some of the papers were suggesting!

I had initially hoped for complete ruin and, when it looked like they could come out of it relatively unscathed, I was disappointed. Still, leaving them a financially impotent, disgraced, mid-table side is a fair compromise!

TC a Celtic fan perhaps?????????????????

[The Puke]

Lovely finish from Boateng to give Milan the lead

[Grenvile]

Great stuff here from Milan and Ibra..

[The Puke]

Haven't seen much of Arsenal in recent times but they are terrible at the back tonight. Complete and utter bombscare defending. For all that I am a fan of Arsene Wenger they could do with a new face there. Team is a shadow of the side they had three or 4 years ago, let alone the invincibles back in 2003-2004

[Thomas Clarke]

Thanks Omar, that certainly paints a much more appealing picture than some of the papers were suggesting!

I had initially hoped for complete ruin and, when it looked like they could come out of it relatively unscathed, I was disappointed. Still, leaving them a financially impotent, disgraced, mid-table side is a fair compromise!

TC a Celtic fan perhaps?????????????????

Not at all Boc, but that doesn't stop any self-respecting northern Catholic delighting in the demise of the 'Gers!

[Grenvile]

Out of interest one day I went on a Rangers Forum to see what the general type of chat would be. Copper fastened my dislike of that club.

[The Puke]

Thanks Omar, that certainly paints a much more appealing picture than some of the papers were suggesting!

I had initially hoped for complete ruin and, when it looked like they could come out of it relatively unscathed, I was disappointed. Still, leaving them a financially impotent, disgraced, mid-table side is a fair compromise!

TC a Celtic fan perhaps?????????????????

Not at all Boc, but that doesn't stop any self-respecting northern Catholic delighting in the demise of the 'Gers!

I think any self respecting human being should be delighted in the demise of the Huns

[The Puke]

And yet some people still think the EPL is the best league in the world

[mugsys_barber]

The Inland Revenue have decided to wipe Rangers debts - in return they have agreed to rename Ibrox the "Inland Revenue Arena" or just IRA for short

[mugsys_barber]

[The Puke]

Yet another masterclass from Messi tonight

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