Re: The non EPL thread

[Thomas Clarke]

JEsus. must get meself an anorak.

Not at all Podger, we'll be expecting big things from you on this forum in 2012. In-depth analysis on McGeeney's boys, including detailed tactical analysis.

We had a couple of Dublin boys on here last year who contributed little in that regard, but I'd say that it is the very least we can expect from a Kildare poster, which you are.

[black&white]

An excellent website - the best soccer website around.

I spoke to RMD 18 months ago about being able to use similar diagrams here on HS to illustrate what we mean when discussing gaelic football & hurling , but the technology wasn't around. Something similar would be a great addition to the site, and set us apart from every other GAA website.

Perhaps GF could work some magic on this?

Freudian slip I hope TC!

[Grenvile]

Disgraceful stuff particularly from Madrid last night.. Disappointing to see Messi getting involved in the theatrics too.

[black&white]

Disgraceful stuff particularly from Madrid last night.. Disappointing to see Messi getting involved in the theatrics too.

I'm nearly at the point where I'm going to stop atchign Barca-Real games, as they always seem to decend into this type of sh1te.

Once Barca start to dominate possession Madrid fall into a "kick anything that moves" mentality, whilst Barcelona spend the game throwing themselves to the ground whilst there team-mates surround the referee looking for a yellow card every time there's a throw-in, never mind an actual foul.

A crowd of 4 year old girls would behave more maturely, and with less whinging than goes on in these "Classicos."

[Grenvile]

Disgraceful stuff particularly from Madrid last night.. Disappointing to see Messi getting involved in the theatrics too.

I'm nearly at the point where I'm going to stop atchign Barca-Real games, as they always seem to decend into this type of sh1te.

Once Barca start to dominate possession Madrid fall into a "kick anything that moves" mentality, whilst Barcelona spend the game throwing themselves to the ground whilst there team-mates surround the referee looking for a yellow card every time there's a throw-in, never mind an actual foul.

A crowd of 4 year old girls would behave more maturely, and with less whinging than goes on in these "Classicos."

Exactly. These games usually descend into a farce after Barca inevitably get a stranglehold on the game. Pepe's dive holding his face is probably one of the worse incidents of simulation I've seen. Do these lads not look back on this game at some stage and cringe with embarrassment!??

[Boxtyeater]

I spoke to RMD 18 months ago about being able to use similar diagrams here on HS to illustrate what we mean when discussing gaelic football & hurling , but the technology wasn't around. Something similar would be a great addition to the site, and set us apart from every other GAA website.

Perhaps GF could work some magic on this?

The Puke ought to be able to rattle up something suitable here. He's an Excel wizard (if that's any help)...

[OMAR]

I spoke to RMD 18 months ago about being able to use similar diagrams here on HS to illustrate what we mean when discussing gaelic football & hurling , but the technology wasn't around. Something similar would be a great addition to the site, and set us apart from every other GAA website.

Perhaps GF could work some magic on this?

The Puke ought to be able to rattle up something suitable here. He's an Ex-cell wizard (if that's any help)...

fixed

[The Puke]

Hat trick for Messi tonight

[The Puke]

If reports are to be believed Jose Mourinho will be given his marching orders in the summer. Another defeat to Barca tonight will pretty much make sure of it, regaldless of Madrid winning the league or not


As Michel Salgado summed it up last week in the build up to the first leg, while Madrid demand success they also demand their teams play attacking football and while Mourinho's side have played decent football at times their inability to do this against Barca will be his undoing, unless he can pull something huge out of the bag. Falling out with two of the fans favourites in Ramos and Casillas won't help. But given that Capello won La Liga in both his one year spells with Real and was sacked soon after wouldn't bode too well for Jose chances. Barring someone else knocking Barca out of the champions league and Madrid capitalising it is hard to see how he will win this one

[Thomas Clarke]

He was certainly very downbeat in his press conference yesterday, even implying that the rumours of cliques emerging at the club are true. This, in particular, is a surprise, as Mourinho has always managed to unite dressing rooms, and keep them on his side. If he has lost the support of his 2 most established Spanish internationals, then he is on borrowed time. He may not last until the summer.

[The Puke]

He was certainly very downbeat in his press conference yesterday, even implying that the rumours of cliques emerging at the club are true. This, in particular, is a surprise, as Mourinho has always managed to unite dressing rooms, and keep them on his side. If he has lost the support of his 2 most established Spanish internationals, then he is on borrowed time. He may not last until the summer.

As long as they are top of the league he will be kept til the summer. But if they were to lose a few games on the spine he ma be in trouble alright. Should be an interesting few weeks to see can he keep it together

[The Puke]

2-0 Barca at half time. Madrid should be down to ten men but the ref for some reason decided not to give Alves a second yellow for a cynical late tackle on messi, alves then crashes the balll into the top corner after the resulting freekick came off the wall

[Loyal2TheRoyal]

2-0 Barca at half time. Madrid should be down to ten men but the ref for some reason decided not to give Alves a second yellow for a cynical late tackle on messi, alves then crashes the balll into the top corner after the resulting freekick came off the wall

Alves plays for the same team as Messi.

Ramos goal disallowed. Says it all about this tie.

[bocerty]

2-0 Barca at half time. Madrid should be down to ten men but the ref for some reason decided not to give Alves a second yellow for a cynical late tackle on messi, alves then crashes the balll into the top corner after the resulting freekick came off the wall

Alves plays for the same team as Messi.

Ramos goal disallowed. Says it all about this tie.

was starting to wonder about that myself Loyal

[Loyal2TheRoyal]

2-0 Barca at half time. Madrid should be down to ten men but the ref for some reason decided not to give Alves a second yellow for a cynical late tackle on messi, alves then crashes the balll into the top corner after the resulting freekick came off the wall

Alves plays for the same team as Messi.

Ramos goal disallowed. Says it all about this tie.

was starting to wonder about that myself Loyal

I think he means Diarra.

2-2 now. Where are you now Puke?

[The Puke]

Apologies ment Diarra but had Alves on my mind after his winder strike.

2-2 now

[Loyal2TheRoyal]

Yes I'm definitely right. The officials are Barca supporters.

[Thomas Clarke]

Typical Madrid/Mourinho thuggery. Adios. And good riddance.

[The Puke]

That was an excellent game of football, good to see Madrid show far more ambition than in previous game between the two this season. A draw was probably the fair result and I had a small wager on it at just over 7/2 beforehand. Money in the bank and Madrid out, a good nights work


Real and Barca are miles ahead of anything in Europe at this moment in time all the same

[Loyal2TheRoyal]

Dortmund are third best even though they went out of the CL.

[Real Kerry Fan]

Madrid robbed.

[The Puke]

The Huns are proper fooked


CRAIG WHYTE sold off four years of fans' money to help fund his Rangers buy-out, it was revealed last night.
And Record Sport can also reveal high-ranking HMRC officials are investigating alleged non-payment of VAT since Whyte gained control of the club last May.

Current director Dave King and former board member Paul Murray have been quizzed by the tax authorities as part of their enquiry which has revealed £24.4million has been borrowed against future season-tickets sales.

Tranches of tickets over four seasons have been sold to Ticketus, a London-based group linked to Octopus, and it's claimed this deal helped finance Whyte's operating costs after the takeover.

Whyte himself last night confirmed he had sold off the tickets but denied he used the money to pay off Lloyds Bank. He insisted the £18m for the bank came from one of his companies.

When Whyte took over Rangers' debt was £18m to Lloyds Bank and their wage bill had been reduced to £14m but it is believed the club could owe much more than that.

It's thought the current debt is £21m to Ticketus plus £5m VAT on the ticket deal. But there could be other bills due and of course Rangers are awaiting the final verdict on their £49m EBT (Employee Benefit Trust) tax case.

Last night Whyte insisted the Ticketus deal was normal practice for clubs and his spokesman said: "The suggestion that the Rangers takeover was funded through financing arrangements on season tickets is categorically untrue.

"Rangers FC is no different in that it has a working capital facility with Ticketus, as have many, many other clubs. It is a common arrangement in football. This facility was in place at Ibrox long before the takeover."

The EBT ruling is due within weeks and if Rangers lose they will be facing financial meltdown.
Their debt could then be in the £75m region with liquidation a stark reality.
But many now fear Rangers could be tipped over the abyss and into some kind of insolvency even before their Judgment Day over the tax case.

Rangers fans put their faith in Whyte believing he would get rid of the club's debt and also provide transfer money for manager Ally McCoist, who has been an impoverished bystander during this transfer window.

But the Ibrox club's support will be shocked by the detail of invoices and letters now in the revenue's possession. It is claimed these show Whyte sold off massive chunks of Rangers' future season-ticket sales.

And former board member Murray believes the takeover wouldn't have been possible without the fans, even though they had no idea future tickets had been sold off to raise extra cash.

Murray said: "These documents prove to me that Rangers fans have actually paid and will continue to pay for the sale of their club."

He added that HMRC have told him they are also due VAT, as much as £5m, on the deal with Ticketus and insists he has seen details of letters and invoices held by HMRC.

Murray claims that in one of the documents, a letter dated March 8, 2011 and signed by Whyte, it is alleged he made it clear that through Wavetower, his bid vehicle at the time, he would be entering into a deal to sell the season tickets to a company called Ticketus.

They are part of London-based Octopus, a perfectly legitimate lender who grant immediate loans based on future ticket sales. Record Sport managed to speak with most of the people who were on the Rangers board at the time of the takeover and they insist they knew nothing about the sale of season tickets. In fact they tried to ring-fence supporters' money.
The papers, which are being pored over by HMRC officials, are said to reveal borrowing against ticket sales for seasons 2011-12, 12-13 and 13-14 that Whyte was able to raise £24.4m.

Then on June 27 he was hit with the first of his repayment bills from Ticketus, who were demanding a total of £9.5m, their share of that summer's season-ticket sales. Whyte could only come up with £3.5m cash and to fill the shortfall mortgaged off part of season 2014-15 to the value of £6m.

Opening in March last year Murray claims the detail contained within HMRC's file is extensive and explosive.
This is the timetable and interpretation of events: March 8, 2011: A letter from Liberty Capital (one of Whyte's companies) is signed by Whyte and addressed to Ticketus.

In the letter Whyte confirms the intention to sell Rangers' season tickets to Ticketus.

April 7: Lawyers on behalf of Ticketus deposit £24.4m into a Collyer Bristow (lawyers for Whyte's bid) client account. A further £2m was placed in the same account from a company called JLT Benefit Solutions with £1m from the Merchant House Group, a firm of corporate finance specialists with whom Whyte is closely linked.

May 9: An agreement was entered into between Ticketus and Rangers to sell the season tickets.This was just three days after the takeover date of May 6. The bank was repaid the £18m.

June 27: Ticketus raised an invoice to Rangers seeking first repayment of £9.5m on their agreement. Rangers paid only £3.5m of that amount in cash and borrowed £6m more from Ticketus by selling another portion of 2013-14 as well as a portion of season 2014-15. Analysts stress there is nothing illegal in selling future ticket sales. In fact, it is common practice in British football, although the problems encountered by Leeds United and Newcastle United, who both borrowed too often and too much, are proof of the dangers.

Whyte has never declared the deals with Ticketus although HMRC documents suggest he has cashed in on fan loyalty.
The tax officials quizzed Murray and South African-based King, who was on conference call, as recently as last Friday morning.
They insisted they had no knowledge of what had been happening and Murray, who last year offered to take the club off Lloyds' books and invest £15m in the team in a last-ditch attempt to prevent Whyte from getting the club, said he couldn't believe what he was reading when presented with the HMRC file.

"HMRC asked for a meeting at the end of last week to find out what knowledge I, having been a director of the club at the time, had of these transactions prior to the takeover," Murray said.

"I knew nothing about this and although I have been questioned by HMRC and seen some especially revealing documents which are in their possession, it is still very hard to take in what has been going on.

"Collyer Bristow were acting for Craig Whyte during the takeover and I have been shown their client account, from the opening of it until today.

"I've also seen all invoices from Ticketus to Rangers and Rangers to Ticketus supporting all these actions.
"I can't believe Rangers have been handed over in this way.

"Remember also, the Independent Board, set up to make sure any potential buyers were capable of making the purchase and then funding the business, asked repeatedly where Craig Whyte was getting the money.
"He said it was from his own personal wealth and through Liberty Capital, which he insisted he owned 100 per cent, in the British Virgin Islands.
"Plans were being made to sell off future ticket sales but the directors were never told. This was all being done behind our backs."

King was also shocked to learn of the seasonticket sale and said: "Securitising season tickets is a valid seasonal funding strategy to smooth cash flows within the year - but no longer."

Whyte's spokesman added: "The takeover team instigated discussions with Ticketus prior to the takeover because the relationship with Rangers was already in place and the new owners wanted to continue it.

"They were clear from the outset they wanted to ensure there were robust working capital provisions in place that could deal with the many financial challenges the club faces.
"The takeover was funded by one of Mr Whyte's companies. Several months before then - and long before any discussions with Ticketus - Mr Whyte was asked to provide proof of funds for the takeover and he did that to the satisfaction of the previous owners, Lloyds Banking Group and professional advisers."

[Parouisa]

Some goal this!!!

[Boxtyeater]

I suppose when you "have" to spend 3 hours or so of your week "working" you have ample time to hone your skills.....

[Loyal2TheRoyal]

Imagine the alleged greatest team in the world with 4 wins in 11 away games this season. Shocking statistic.

Only one greatest team in the world and they are romping home with La Liga.

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