Re: Best Ever Irish Sportsman ...

**mossbags** Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:41 am

Right so

I nominate Sea the Stars

**Jayo Cluxton** Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:44 am

Thomas Clarke wrote:Is Tiger Woods not a great sportsman?
Or Jim Thorpe?
Or Carlos Monzon or Jake LaMotta?
Or Shane Warne or Ian Botham?
Or countless others who were 'flawed' men?

TC - I have to pull you up here. You have kicked O'Driscoll to touch merely on the numbers (or lack of) game. Now you quote Botham and Warne - cricket? You are also a fan of idols in gridiron, golf, baseball, boxing and cycling (to name a few) - all 'minority' sports in terms of either global each or % population participation.

O'Driscoll has bestrode world rugby for a decade and more at the highest level. He is at least entitled to consideration rather than be brushed aside because you don't rate the game ....

**Boxtyeater** Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:44 am

The Puke wrote:
Boxtyeater wrote:

Not even te best O'Brien to train horses

Better success ratio I'd imagine than MV given the upsurge in racing in the last 30 years. But as it's not something that concerns me on a daily/weekly basis, like yourself, so I'll bow to your opinion.

**The Puke** Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:47 am

Boxtyeater wrote:
The Puke wrote:
Boxtyeater wrote:

Not even te best O'Brien to train horses

Better success ratio I'd imagine than MV given the upsurge in racing in the last 30 years. But as it's not something that concerns me on a daily/weekly basis, like yourself, so I'll bow to your opinion.

I can never warm to aiden, there is just something about him(tipp breeding aside) he is only reeping from what Vincent sowed for him in the formation of Coolmore....

**mossbags** Wed Oct 13, 2010 1:02 am

AoB is a sharp operator and wouldn't be over critical of him but he has a long long long way to go before emulating the dizzying heights of some his compatriot contemprories, not to mention those who've ruled the roost at Ballydoyle before. The Coolmaore aspect must also be taken into account when attempting to measure where AoB may or may not stand on a list of Irelands greatest sportsman.
Fallon and Kinane are two who Im sure have been called already here. Both far superior to any soccerball types mentioned thus far on these pages.

**patrique** Wed Oct 13, 2010 1:27 am

Boxtyeater wrote:Couple of boys getting badly rattled by this whole George Best thing.. He was a good player in what was one of the better English league clubs of their era. Law, Charlton, Crerand, Stiles and our own Tony Dunne amongst others were all team mates and all top quality players in their time. Best was a cog in the great wheel of things.
Talented and plucky, he had a few years, where between his looks and his lifestyle, he was all the rage...a sort of precursor of Beckham and his ilk. This was the swinging 60's, rebellious years and tabloid journalism was on the rise. The proletariat were gagging for an icon to attach themselves to and Best proved to be the man....

Yours in seeing reality for what it is,
Boxty....

No word at all about Ronnie Delaney, strange....

George would have ate Ronnie delaney, a poor man's Couglin.

When United WON in ERurope Law was not playing, Charlton was finished, and their other top player, Crehand, was getting on.

A cog in a wheel. I like that, a bit like Henry Sheflin then?

**Thomas Clarke** Wed Oct 13, 2010 8:09 am

Jayo Cluxton wrote:
Thomas Clarke wrote:Is Tiger Woods not a great sportsman?
Or Jim Thorpe?
Or Carlos Monzon or Jake LaMotta?
Or Shane Warne or Ian Botham?
Or countless others who were 'flawed' men?

TC - I have to pull you up here. You have kicked O'Driscoll to touch merely on the numbers (or lack of) game. Now you quote Botham and Warne - cricket? You are also a fan of idols in gridiron, golf, baseball, boxing and cycling (to name a few) - all 'minority' sports in terms of either global each or % population participation.

O'Driscoll has bestrode world rugby for a decade and more at the highest level. He is at least entitled to consideration rather than be brushed aside because you don't rate the game ....

JC, go back and read the thread from the start. I don't deny O'Driscoll is a great rugby player - never have. I made a point, as Patrique did, that soccer is a sport that has many more participants worldwide, hence to reach the top is more difficult than it is at rugby. The title of the thread asked who was the best, not who were the best dozen or so. O'Driscoll would rightly be on any list of best irish sportsmen, but the point I was making was that what Best achieved was more impressive. Is O'Driscoll even Ireland's greatest rugby player, let alone sportsman?

I also think that Warne & Botham were greats in their sport, but again wouldn't have them as the greatest ever.

Also don't see your point about Kevin Kilbane - he mightn't be much good, but he didn't take up soccer when he was in his 20's.

And as for golf - hardly a minority sport - I'm pretty sure that there are a lot more people playing golf around the world this week than there are playing rugby.

**Thomas Clarke** Wed Oct 13, 2010 8:13 am

JimWexford wrote:As regards comment regarding the 6 counties,you can take this or leave it but its a view point I share with a few others anything of worth that came out of there during the troubles was totally over hyped,because of where they came from and they got to hide behind there flaws eg Higgins, Best as misunderstood souls.
Again I didn't live up there but those two as examples didn't come from poor backgrounds or where they even mixed up in the troubles.
Did Best even have an Irish passport, if he didn't can he even be classed as Irish is he not British!.

Anything of any worth that came out of there during the troubles was totally over-hyped?

Good man Jim. Glad you showed your true prejudices at last.

**Real Kerry Fan** Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:48 am

World rugby? Ireland, France,UK,Australia,N.Zealand,S.Africa and maybe Argentina. Hardly 'world'. Mad

Gooch is world class in that case. Very Happy

**The Puke** Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:56 am

patrique wrote:
Boxtyeater wrote:Couple of boys getting badly rattled by this whole George Best thing.. He was a good player in what was one of the better English league clubs of their era. Law, Charlton, Crerand, Stiles and our own Tony Dunne amongst others were all team mates and all top quality players in their time. Best was a cog in the great wheel of things.
Talented and plucky, he had a few years, where between his looks and his lifestyle, he was all the rage...a sort of precursor of Beckham and his ilk. This was the swinging 60's, rebellious years and tabloid journalism was on the rise. The proletariat were gagging for an icon to attach themselves to and Best proved to be the man....

Yours in seeing reality for what it is,
Boxty....

No word at all about Ronnie Delaney, strange....

George would have ate Ronnie delaney, a poor man's Couglin.

When United WON in ERurope Law was not playing, Charlton was finished, and their other top player, Crehand, was getting on.

A cog in a wheel. I like that, a bit like Henry Sheflin then?

For Fcuk sake, Charlton was far from finished in 1968......Pure revionist bullsh1t

**Thomas Clarke** Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:19 pm

Bobby Charlton said that Best was as good as anyone he had seen, Denis Law named him in a group of 6, John Giles rated him the best, as did Pele, at one stage. Eusebio was also a great admirer.

Here is a fine article from Simon Barnes, in my opinion one of the finest sportswriters around. I strongly doubt that we will ever see similar articules written about Owen, Lineker, Keegan and the likes, good footballers though they were.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/columnists/simon_barnes/article596411.ece

**The Puke** Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:57 pm

Thomas Clarke wrote:Bobby Charlton said that Best was as good as anyone he had seen, Denis Law named him in a group of 6, John Giles rated him the best, as did Pele, at one stage. Eusebio was also a great admirer.

Here is a fine article from Simon Barnes, in my opinion one of the finest sportswriters around. I strongly doubt that we will ever see similar articules written about Owen, Lineker, Keegan and the likes, good footballers though they were.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/columnists/simon_barnes/article596411.ece

I rate Zlatan Ibramihovic very highly and if you like I can post up loads of articles from the likes of Capello, Mourinho, Mancini and Koeman etc all calling him the best in the world and better than Van Basten in his pomp.....But does that make it true????

**OMAR** Wed Oct 13, 2010 1:14 pm

Irish (32 counties)
Activity that over a billion people in the world take part in (although with inferior equipment)
Sport with a global audience
2nd best in the world in one year
Top 5 in world for a number of years

Eddie Irvine gets my vote

**Real Kerry Fan** Wed Oct 13, 2010 1:36 pm

OMAR wrote:Irish (32 counties)
Activity that over a billion people in the world take part in (although with inferior equipment)
Sport with a global audience
2nd best in the world in one year
Top 5 in world for a number of years

Eddie Irvine gets my vote

He was only a driver. Depends on the quality of the car.

**Thomas Clarke** Wed Oct 13, 2010 2:41 pm

The Puke wrote:
I rate Zlatan Ibramihovic very highly and if you like I can post up loads of articles from the likes of Capello, Mourinho, Mancini and Koeman etc all calling him the best in the world and better than Van Basten in his pomp.....But does that make it true????

You can produce quotes from all those people saying that Ibrahimovic was better than Van Basten in his prime? I find that incredibly hard to believe, but feel free to prove me wrong.

At any rate, Best was better than either of them, although Van Basten was excellent also.

**The Puke** Wed Oct 13, 2010 3:08 pm

Thomas Clarke wrote:
The Puke wrote:
I rate Zlatan Ibramihovic very highly and if you like I can post up loads of articles from the likes of Capello, Mourinho, Mancini and Koeman etc all calling him the best in the world and better than Van Basten in his pomp.....But does that make it true????

You can produce quotes from all those people saying that Ibrahimovic was better than Van Basten in his prime? I find that incredibly hard to believe, but feel free to prove me wrong.

At any rate, Best was better than either of them, although Van Basten was excellent also.

Capello said he is better than Cryuff alright, mourinho, mancini and koeman all called him the best player in the world in the last 18 months....Like I said, I rate Zlatan very highy but don't think he was as good as Van Basten etc but some of the finest minds in modern football do, same way giles/pele etc rate best as one of the best, opinion are just that and have to be taken with a pinch of salt, they aren't fact.....

**Boxtyeater** Wed Oct 13, 2010 6:26 pm

patrique wrote:

George would have ate Ronnie delaney, a poor man's Couglin.

When United WON in ERurope Law was not playing, Charlton was finished, and their other top player, Crehand, was getting on.

A cog in a wheel. I like that, a bit like Henry Sheflin then?

Delany a poor man's Coughlin, doubtful. Delany won an Olympic gold in an era when the 1500m. was the Blue Riband event of the Olympics, a feat that eluded Coughlin.
Charlton was hardly finished and while I'm aware that Law didn't play in the final, that observation is matterless. In all, lame protestations.

What is true though, is the comparison you draw with Shefflin, a cog in a wheel. Its worth noting on this analogy that Shefflin has been an exemplary component in the Kilkenny machine, delivering performances of ruthless efficiency and accuracy over a 10/12 year period, while continuing to hold a day job, commit to practically all year round training and lead a personal life with a wife and family and endure the headaches that life today provides for people in these circumstances.

Achieving all these in an amateur sport merely serves to elevate Shefflin in my estimation, but thanks anyway for bringing him into the discussion....

**patrique** Wed Oct 13, 2010 6:57 pm

Coughlin did win the 5,000 world title, and like Delaney was excellent indoor.

Delaney won the title when you had Landy and Bannister, but Coughlin was some runner as well.

**patrique** Wed Oct 13, 2010 6:59 pm

I was going to recommend Geroid MacAdam, son of Gerry, as he is a non drinking, non smoking teacher, idol of youth and a stalwart on the Antrim senior football team for about ten years.

I forgot however that he is not Irish.

Guest Wed Oct 13, 2010 7:28 pm

My genuine nomination:

Peter O'Connor- Long Jumper.

I can't really do justice to the man's story in a few lines here but he was certainly one of the BEST Irish athletes (and a great GAA man too).

He was a double medal winner at the 1906 Olympics. In the long jump he was dubiously denied the gold by officialdom at a time where he was past his prime (setting the world record which lasted for over two decades, five years previously. His record wasn't broken in Ireland for 89 years)

And he was quite the eccentric patriot as well. At the ceremony for his silver medal a union jack was flown to represent his second place, in protest of this the bauld Peter climbed up the flagpole and flew the golden harp flag.

He was also an accountant in Mullingar for a while. Razz

**Boxtyeater** Wed Oct 13, 2010 7:36 pm

Incredible stuff Seb, I must admit to having never heard of him before, but his wiki page tells the tale.

Some performer in all fairness and his wiki page is worth a read.......Good call, one of the best so far.... Wink

Guest Wed Oct 13, 2010 7:42 pm

Boxtyeater wrote:Incredible stuff Seb, I must admit to having never heard of him before, but his wiki page tells the tale.

Some performer in all fairness and his wiki page is worth a read.......Good call, one of the best so far....

I did my Leaving Cert history project about him a few years back. A Remarkable fella!

**rich dublin** Wed Oct 13, 2010 7:46 pm

lds like i say before it is futile callin best the " best IRISH sportsman ever" he wasnt irish!!!! he said that if he wasnt playing football he would be in belfast thoring stones at the catholics!!!! end of discussion on best!!!

**OMAR** Wed Oct 13, 2010 8:01 pm

rich dublin wrote:lds like i say before it is futile callin best the " best IRISH sportsman ever" he wasnt irish!!!! he said that if he wasnt playing football he would be in belfast thoring stones at the catholics!!!! end of discussion on best!!!

Does religion define nationality ?

**OMAR** Wed Oct 13, 2010 8:03 pm

patrique wrote:Coughlin did win the 5,000 world title, and like Delaney was excellent indoor.

Delaney won the title when you had Landy and Bannister, but Coughlin was some runner as well.

It would be difficult for Delaney to have emulated him on that one.

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