The Premier League

OMAR wrote:Once he started speaking to the Beeb it was a sign that his resilience is on the wane.

On the Wayne more like!!!

Incidentally I heard Mr Crerand on Newstalk this morning and he was asked about Rooney and his recent travails. Crerand pointed out that there were two other players involved (bit players which is the case but he omitted to say) and three wives!!!!

Didn't know that the wives had to get permission from MUFC to go out but there you go!

Parouisa wrote:

OMAR wrote:Once he started speaking to the Beeb it was a sign that his resilience is on the wane.

On the Wayne more like!!!

Incidentally I heard Mr Crerand on Newstalk this morning and he was asked about Rooney and his recent travails. Crerand pointed out that there were two other players involved (bit players which is the case but he omitted to say) and three wives!!!!

Didn't know that the wives had to get permission from MUFC to go out but there you go!

Depends whose wifes they were

Jonsmith wrote:Happy 70th Sir Alex Ferguson. Great manager, great man and all round legend. We at GG salute you.

You really put the mockers on him here JS! B&W and yourself and even Paddy Crerand must accept that this is the poorest United team in many seasons. Just a week ago Giggs tried to paper the cracks but the truth is out. Lots of ordinary players who wouldn't look out of place at West Brom or Fulham. Rooney and Vidic the only players who might interest Real or Barca .... or City. Other than that you have a steadily declining Rio with no Vidic to protect him, Jonny Evans who may be lucky to get a game for Norn Iron, Evra who going downhill faster than Klammer, Nani - a poor imitation of Ronaldo, Berbatov who United want to get rid of but may now realise they can't .... mind you there is always Michael Owen. The unfortunate Fletcher and then Carrick - who are not good enough anyway - and Anderson - God help us! Roy was right. Will Fergie get his 3 more years? Debatable. And nobody to ride in with a chequebook to rescue things. Even the ability to tap up is seriously undermined at this stage. Lucky to make Top 4 I reckon ..... and Wayne may be elsewhere next year. Glazers must be getting itchy.

There is an unkind rumour sweeping the blue half of Manchester that United took a dive out of the Champions League in case they got to the final against Barca again! Meanwhile a certain Mr O'Neill is having a tremendous impact in the North East. Now there is a manager. I'd imagine if his stock continues to rise (btw get on Sunderland for the Carling Cup next year) and others continue to fall then you never know what could happen. Big Niall must be laughing with the gods. The last Irish midfielder he put at the helm did a fair enough job but this man is the real deal. How he has not managed a Top 4 club is unbelievable.

Parouisa wrote:There is an unkind rumour sweeping the blue half of Manchester that United took a dive out of the Champions League in case they got to the final against Barca again! Meanwhile a certain Mr O'Neill is having a tremendous impact in the North East. Now there is a manager. I'd imagine if his stock continues to rise (btw get on Sunderland for the Carling Cup next year) and others continue to fall then you never know what could happen. Big Niall must be laughing with the gods. The last Irish midfielder he put at the helm did a fair enough job but this man is the real deal. How he has not managed a Top 4 club is unbelievable.

i think hes waiting on the big one at Utd P after SAF retires

bocerty wrote:i think hes waiting on the big one at Utd P after SAF retires gets the sack

Fixed .....

Parouisa wrote:

Jonsmith wrote:Happy 70th Sir Alex Ferguson. Great manager, great man and all round legend. We at GG salute you.

You really put the mockers on him here JS! B&W and yourself and even Paddy Crerand must accept that this is the poorest United team in many seasons. Just a week ago Giggs tried to paper the cracks but the truth is out. Lots of ordinary players who wouldn't look out of place at West Brom or Fulham. Rooney and Vidic the only players who might interest Real or Barca .... or City. Other than that you have a steadily declining Rio with no Vidic to protect him, Jonny Evans who may be lucky to get a game for Norn Iron, Evra who going downhill faster than Klammer, Nani - a poor imitation of Ronaldo, Berbatov who United want to get rid of but may now realise they can't .... mind you there is always Michael Owen. The unfortunate Fletcher and then Carrick - who are not good enough anyway - and Anderson - God help us! Roy was right. Will Fergie get his 3 more years? Debatable. And nobody to ride in with a chequebook to rescue things. Even the ability to tap up is seriously undermined at this stage. Lucky to make Top 4 I reckon ..... and Wayne may be elsewhere next year. Glazers must be getting itchy.

You really must think Ferguson has some supernatural powers to keep a dross competing for the EPL, winning it last year and reaching the CL Final. He is undoubtedly brilliant but not to the extent you propose.

Ah JS even the biggest weapon he had the bullying fear factor is gone! Not even the basement teams fear United now. Even the players go out on the lash in the City now - in threes! And with their wives. A busted flush. Mind you he always looks flush.

You are right though - it does expose the weakness and paucity of talent in the P'ship. We have only to look at the way Europe's best toyed with the EPL's finest on their own turf last May - before chucking them aside.

Arsenal the only ones who have consistently tried to do it right - Spurs now doing similar. Chelsea a team in decline with an owner who seems to be tiring of his toy. Liverpool are unworthy of mention here other than a nod to history. The great white hope is City. They can buy the best and are the only long term prospect if the EPL is to seriously compete at Champs League level. I think everyone in English football should get behind City. They are the last great hope. You could even see Messi there in a few years.

Parouisa wrote:Ah JS even the biggest weapon he had the bullying fear factor is gone! Not even the basement teams fear United now. Even the players go out on the lash in the City now - in threes! And with their wives. A busted flush. Mind you he always looks flush.

You are right though - it does expose the weakness and paucity of talent in the P'ship. We have only to look at the way Europe's best toyed with the EPL's finest on their own turf last May - before chucking them aside.

Arsenal the only ones who have consistently tried to do it right - Spurs now doing similar. Chelsea a team in decline with an owner who seems to be tiring of his toy. Liverpool are unworthy of mention here other than a nod to history. The great white hope is City. They can buy the best and are the only long term prospect if the EPL is to seriously compete at Champs League level. I think everyone in English football should get behind City. They are the last great hope. You could even see Messi there in a few years.

Do you write the same thing every year or do you just copy and paste annually to save time?

Jonsmith wrote:Do you write the same thing every year or do you just copy and paste annually to save time?

Oh come on ... I expect better. I take no great pleasure in my soothsaying but am reminded of Deuteronomy ... And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee ....

Though personally I think Simon Grayson's race is run.

Parouisa wrote:

Jonsmith wrote:Happy 70th Sir Alex Ferguson. Great manager, great man and all round legend. We at GG salute you.

You really put the mockers on him here JS! B&W and yourself and even Paddy Crerand must accept that this is the poorest United team in many seasons. Just a week ago Giggs tried to paper the cracks but the truth is out. Lots of ordinary players who wouldn't look out of place at West Brom or Fulham. Rooney and Vidic the only players who might interest Real or Barca .... or City. Other than that you have a steadily declining Rio with no Vidic to protect him, Jonny Evans who may be lucky to get a game for Norn Iron, Evra who going downhill faster than Klammer, Nani - a poor imitation of Ronaldo, Berbatov who United want to get rid of but may now realise they can't .... mind you there is always Michael Owen. The unfortunate Fletcher and then Carrick - who are not good enough anyway - and Anderson - God help us! Roy was right. Will Fergie get his 3 more years? Debatable. And nobody to ride in with a chequebook to rescue things. Even the ability to tap up is seriously undermined at this stage. Lucky to make Top 4 I reckon ..... and Wayne may be elsewhere next year. Glazers must be getting itchy.

I don't recall ever claiming that this was a great, good or even above average United team!
Although perversely, if all players were fit I'd say that this season's offering is actually a stronger team than last season's .

The team lacks leadership on the pitch more than anything else, very evident whenever Vidic is missing. Jones perhaps in a few years will become a player who will lead the counter against a slump, but at the minute he's still too inexperienced. Ferdinand is a pale imitation of the composed ball-player he once was. Take his skill on the ball away, and his weakness in other areas becomes all too apparent.

Of the current crop, those who you would like to retain if building a new team would be as follows:
De Gea has potential to be world class but seems to be lacking in confidence, and decision making looks to be a bit suspect. The thing is, Casillas had a similar shaky spell after breaking into the Madrid team (he was a few years younger than de Gea), but he came good once he restored his confidence, and his decision-making improved with experience.
As de Gea's still so young, another season could be the making of him, and will probably determine whether he becomes the new Casillas or the new Barthez.
The thing is, Lindegaard looks to have great potential also. He doesn't have the raw ability that de Gea has, but seems to be stronger in terms of positioning, decision-making and confidence. As he's a bit older, it's hard to know will he improve much more. For now, I'd try to hold onto the two of them, and get both plenty of games.

At the back, Smalling and Jones look to have great futures ahead of them, albeit with much yet to learn. Jones has the potential to be world-class, but at the minute it's only potential. Smalling could develop into a similar style defender to Rio in his prime, but again, he's got a way to go yet.
Evra's nowhere near the player he was 2/3 years ago, and seems to be getting caught out of position more and more often. Worryingly though (more a reflection on the standard of left backs in the Premier League) he's still one of the top left-backs in the English game.

In midfield, Cleverly could be the next Paul Scholes, or the next Owen Hargreaves. Bags of talent, but hopefully not a talent for getting injured as well.
Nani, Valencia and Young all have the potential to be match-winners and the potential to be anonymous in equal measure. All are extremely talented, but seem to lack both consistency and the ability to make the right decision. If Young can get back to the form of the first 3 months of the season he's as good a winger as plays in England at the minute.

Up front, Rooney and Hernandez would be welcomed at nearly any team in the world (not sure if Liverpool would take Rooney though). Wellbeck will be a decent Premier League striker that can consistently score 8-12 goals a season, but I don't think he'll ever be the sort of striker that should regularly start for a title-challenging team.

Realistically, at the moment United are in need of 2/3 defenders, 3/4 midfielders, and one more striker.


All of that said, it's probably the lowest ebb that United have been at since pre-1992, and they're still sitting 2nd in the League, only 3 points off the top. If United are in such a crisis, then the league table is a schocking reflection on those behind them.

Parouisa wrote:

Jonsmith wrote:Do you write the same thing every year or do you just copy and paste annually to save time?

Oh come on ... I expect better. I take no great pleasure in my soothsaying but am reminded of Deuteronomy ... And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee ....

Though personally I think Simon Grayson's race is run.

In fairness to JS on this one, there's enough people on here who make a habit of predicting the imminent demise of Man Utd every time they drop some points. I think sometimes they're taking the Frank Lampard approach - if you keep shooting and shooting and shooting one's bound to hit the target eventually

(problem is, this time it could be right!)

Fair enough assessment there B&W. There is also the reality that Fergie's tenure is on the last lap and the financial situation is as poor as it has been since the inception of the EPL. Having seen the Frank O'Farrell doc over Xmas I hope they handle the changeover better than when the last successful Scottish manager left - Doc doesn't count.

"I honestly can't see them getting near winning anything this season. You say they played badly in the past and came good - but that was when they had very good players ... not the case now."

"It would not take three years for United to drop out of the top 4. The way they are playing this season - and the stupid points they are dropping - could see them out of it next May."

Soothsayer...

Jonsmith wrote:"I honestly can't see them getting near winning anything this season. You say they played badly in the past and came good - but that was when they had very good players ... not the case now."

"It would not take three years for United to drop out of the top 4. The way they are playing this season - and the stupid points they are dropping - could see them out of it next May."

Soothsayer...

The time is now nigh methinks - but good searching! Seriously there is a crisis now. And the lack of funds from the Champs League will not help. I don't mean to be a harbinger of doom but Liverpool were once the unbeatable team in England .... only saying ...

Jayo Cluxton wrote:Cos the standards are down JS - thats the why. But every year you'll get shock or freak results in every league. But still Utd or Chelsea will win it ....

17 January 2011

Parouisa wrote:

Jonsmith wrote:"I honestly can't see them getting near winning anything this season. You say they played badly in the past and came good - but that was when they had very good players ... not the case now."

"It would not take three years for United to drop out of the top 4. The way they are playing this season - and the stupid points they are dropping - could see them out of it next May."

Soothsayer...

The time is now nigh methinks - but good searching! Seriously there is a crisis now. And the lack of funds from the Champs League will not help. I don't mean to be a harbinger of doom but Liverpool were once the unbeatable team in England .... only saying ...

Liverpool didn't have the support base nor the funds available that United do. United have maximised their profit making ability in recent years, something Liverpool are only beginning at the moment.

The game has become global and United have been milking that, reaching out to Asia and growing markets. The current ownership is poisonous but the club itself, the brand, the stadium, is all worth too much for a massive decline. A short stint out of the top 4 if the strangling of the funds continues is not beyond the realms of possibility but the Glazers' hands would be forced and a sale of the club or floating it on the stock market again would inject life (and more importantly money) back into the club.

I think it is worth remembering that United got an incredibly soft run to the Champions League final last season and the fact that their three biggest rivals over the past decade or so were terrible last year and all three are currently rebuilding and this has been a huge help to United. It is very much a case that the top teams have come back to the pack in the EPL in the past couple of seasons. Ferguson deserves credit for winning the league last year with a very average United side going on the standard of the last 20 years but he also deserves plenty of criticism for not addressing the gaping problem in his side which in central midfield. Although i do think United did dodge a bullet by not signing Wesley Sneijder who is injury prone and overrated IMHO

The days of there being 3 English teams in the semi finals of the Champions league are gone and won't return any time soon, especially with these Financial Fair Play regulations on the way. English football could be in for a sharp enough decline in the coming years, the Sky bubble which helped build it into one of the top leagues in Europe also has lead to its detriment. When lads as average as Wayne Bridge can pick up 90k a week and the likes of Gary Cahill feel they deserve 120k a week just illustates the bubble the league exists in, the dependance on foreign footballers for creativity has lead to hugely inflated prices and wages for distinctly average English footballers. Outside of the 5 or 6 clubs everyone else is utter dependant on Sky TV money, it is over 80% of revenue that the likes of Bolton, Wigan etc receive and is completely unsustanable. I think the emergence of Man city and their spend happy owners seems to have papered over a lot of the cracks in the league to an extent. Both the German and Italian leagues are made up for the most part of sides in good financial health with an excellent core of young homegrown footballer and teams are not as reliant on TV money as their EPL counterparts and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see the powerbase of European football shifting back towards these two countries like it was in the mid 90's in the next 5 to 10 years. It was good to see Borrusia Dortmond making a statement of intent during the week by signing of Marco Reus for the bones of €20 million, they have some outstanding young footballer and are not content in just developing these lads just to sell them and want to build on some very good recent progress

black&white wrote:Realistically, at the moment United are in need of 2/3 defenders, 3/4 midfielders, and one more striker.

I wouldn't disagree with this - other than to say maybe more than one striker. United do not have the clout they used to in attracting the best players - nor the money. Basically you are looking at a new team with only Rooney and Vidic to build it around. (Though Rooney seems to be totally de-motivated this season and I wouldn't be surprised to see him move on). Ferguson has made questionable buys over the years. He can't afford to do it now and then you look at Obertan, Anderson, Young and wonder. I will give Phil Jones the benefit of the doubt. But there is serious surgery required - there is no doubt about that. He is 70 and wants 3 more years. It will probably take all of that.

Darren Bent to Liverpool it looks like. He is a decent goalscorer but he hasn't all that much guile or the ability to bring others into play. Liverpool would be far better off signing a quality winger or a creative play maker type which they are badly lacking in their side.

The Puke wrote:Darren Bent to Liverpool it looks like. He is a decent goalscorer but he hasn't all that much guile or the ability to bring others into play. Liverpool would be far better off signing a quality winger or a creative play maker type which they are badly lacking in their side.

Hope Suarez leaves him alone .....

The Puke wrote:Darren Bent to Liverpool it looks like. He is a decent goalscorer but he hasn't all that much guile or the ability to bring others into play. Liverpool would be far better off signing a quality winger or a creative play maker type which they are badly lacking in their side.

Another John Henry "moneyball" signing I wonder? Liverpool are creating bags of chances but not converting them so a poacher is what they need badly. I agree with you though, they'll get done for the price too..

Jonsmith wrote:

The Puke wrote:Darren Bent to Liverpool it looks like. He is a decent goalscorer but he hasn't all that much guile or the ability to bring others into play. Liverpool would be far better off signing a quality winger or a creative play maker type which they are badly lacking in their side.

Another John Henry "moneyball" signing I wonder? Liverpool are creating bags of chances but not converting them so a poacher is what they need badly. I agree with you though, they'll get done for the price too..

but Bent isn't what i would class as a poacher, he is a lad who you play up top and knock long balls in behind the defence for him to chase/get on the end of on the counter where he can use his mobility and size. That is where the majority of his goals come from. If they are signing him to get on the end of things in and around the 6 yard box then it is a waste.

In fairness to Bent, while he isn't top class he has scored goals wherever he has gone but I honestly don't know what kind of team Liverpool are trying to build at all. Daglish and Comolli have a lot to answer for if they are the two calling the shots in terms of recruitment, well over 100 million spent in 12 months and no disernable improvement

What do ye think of Liverpool's stance on the whole Suarez issue? I don't think it does them any favours. You are either against racism or you're not. They are almost Blatterlike in their defence ....

JS and Puke, you both watch a lot more soccer than I do, but strange to hear you say that Liverpool need a 'poacher'. Pipo Inzaghi aside, I thought such players became extinct at the top level years ago.

Who are these '6 yard box poachers' that Liverpool should have been signing?