The Premier League

bald eagle wrote:

bocerty wrote:I see Joey Barton is up to his usual antics of looking for publicity. That man would sink to any depth just to hear the sound of his own voice.

A knob of the highest order

Was what he said a lie? Perfectly entitled to his opinion on the matter and didn't say anything untrue, what's not selfish about taking your own life? i read his tweet and agreed wholeheartedly with it as it was not an attack on Gary Speed in any way!

I'm absolutely gutted about Speed as he was one of my favourite ever players and always on my Dream Teams when i done them, i still find this very hard to believe!

I don't think it's fair to be judging the state of mind of someone like that BE.. Depression and despair warp your thoughts to the point that rationality leaves you.

Feelin sorry for Fergie.

A very sad, but interesting article, given Gary Speed's tragic death. I would once have tended to agree with BE's view, but am now aware that there is sometimes much more going on with people than we realise....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2011/jul/19/nfl-star-brain-injuries-destroyed

Thomas Clarke wrote:A very sad, but interesting article, given Gary Speed's tragic death. I would once have tended to agree with BE's view, but am now aware that there is sometimes much more going on with people than we realise....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2011/jul/19/nfl-star-brain-injuries-destroyed

very interesting article TC and extremely informative. Makes you wonder if all those years heading a football is doing the same thing to the brains of footballers (though Joey Barton wont have any bother worrying about it).

Whether we agree with BE's view or not you dont need to ram it down the throat of a person who has lost a loved one to suicide. can you just picture the scene standing in a wake house of someone who has taken their life, their partner standing beside the coffin and a mourner comes out with the words "it was a selfish thing to do". There would a second coffin needed!!!!

Thomas Clarke wrote:A very sad, but interesting article, given Gary Speed's tragic death. I would once have tended to agree with BE's view, but am now aware that there is sometimes much more going on with people than we realise....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2011/jul/19/nfl-star-brain-injuries-destroyed

Well worth a read. Good call Sir.

Van Persie's goal against Everton was pure class. Reminiscent of Bergkamp in his prime.

Parouisa wrote:Van Persie's goal against Everton was pure class. Reminiscent of Bergkamp in his prime.

Splendid goal from a splendid player. He is having an excellent 2011. Must be averaging close to a goal a game this calnedar year

We need to talk about Wayne


By Eamonn Sweeney


Sunday December 11 2011

Do you remember when Andre Villas-Boas was a busted flush, a manager revealed to be sorely out of his depth who would shortly be replaced by Guus Hiddink? You should, it was about a week and a half ago, before a couple of 3-0 wins led to equally rash talk about turning points and vindication.

Can you recall when it was conclusively proved Arsene Wenger had 'lost the plot' as Arsenal dwindled into complete irrelevance? That was back in the prehistoric era known as August when Manchester United defeated the Gunners 8-2.

I know it's a long time ago but can you remember what was being said about United back then? I'll refresh your memory. That they had 'moved to the next level', that they had actually benefited from their Champions League final thrashing by Barcelona because the Spaniards, 'showed them what's required,' that the 50 million lashed out on Ashley Young, Phil Jones and David de Gea was money well spent and that Wayne Rooney was about to overtake Lionel Messi as the best player in the world.

Now that really does seem like something from another age. Of course it's easy to take the mickey if you're a smartarse like me who has the luxury of waiting till the group stages are over before commenting on the Champions League. Football writers have to call it as it happens and the situation tends to be so fluid from week to week that a certain number of hostages to fortune are bound to be offered.

Nevertheless, United's pitiful exit from Europe's main event shows that the hype surrounding the club after a couple of big early-season wins was spectacularly ill-founded even by the standards of football punditry. Their comprehensive defeat by FC Basel was a bit like Fianna Fáil's catastrophic performance in the general election. On one level you could see it coming but they had defied logic so often you presumed they'd pull through one more time.

Elimination from the Champions League before the New Year is a stunning reverse for United, not least because they'd been drawn in The Group of Life. Neophytes Otelul Galati would struggle to beat Shamrock Rovers, Benfica managed to lose four games out of six in last year's group stages, including a 3-0 loss to the mighty Hapoel Tel Aviv. FC Basel haven't got past the group stages since the Champions League began. You'd have expected the English champions to get through with games to spare.

They didn't, so the search for scapegoats will start. The Glazers will be the number one targets and we can expect much predictable protest against the owners whose miserliness is evident in that paltry 50 million they allowed Alex Ferguson to spend over the summer. This obsession with club owners and the money they spend is eloquent testimony to the embourgoisification of football. Prawn Sandwich Man mightn't know much about the game but boardroom drama is meat and drink to him.

In any event whatever relevance United's expenditure has to their eclipse by Barcelona it has nothing to do with the failure to take more than one point from six against Basel. Perhaps instead the club's decline can be traced to the moment just over a year ago when Alex Ferguson bent over backwards to appease Wayne Rooney when his star player threatened to leave the club because United 'couldn't match his ambition'.

Even at the time the reasons why Ferguson should ensure Rooney stayed at Old Trafford didn't seem solely connected with football. Because the spectre of the striker moving across town to Manchester

City was raised we were told United must keep him or 'lose credibility', as though they were a political party rather than a football team. Ferguson appeared to heed these siren voices and all the tabloid bullshit about 'Noisy Neighbours'. He capitulated to the player's demands.

Ferguson had got rid of David Beckham, Jaap Stam and Roy Keane on the basis that no player was bigger than the club. Now it appeared Rooney was the exception. When Ferguson was told he'd win nothing with kids, he said 'watch me'. This time he bowed to the conventional wisdom and implicitly accepted the idea that United would have to live up to Rooney's standards rather than the other way around.

He has been poorly repaid. Because ever since clinching his improved financial deal Rooney has been a largely peripheral figure at United. There have been occasional marvellous moments but no real sustained effort. When United needed him in Basel, Rooney, not for the first time, went missing. His sole contributions were to miss a sitter and whinge at the ref after the final whistle like an English tourist complaining that a Spanish waiter has given him the wrong change.

You could point out that by contrast Lionel Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo do it for their clubs week in, week out and often produce their best stuff when the team really needs it. But it's foolish to even make that comparison, Rooney isn't in that class. And last season he proved far less vital to United's title campaign than his striking colleagues Dimitar Berbatov and Javier Hernandez though oddly enough the articles in the English press wondering what was wrong with Berbatov, top scorer in the Premier League, outnumbered those wondering what was wrong with Rooney by ten to one. Except there actually wasn't one.

The myth of Rooney as one of the world's leading footballers seems absolutely impervious to the impressive body of evidence to the contrary. More and more the things written about him in his home country are like those articles you used to read over here about how Brian Cowen had got his mojo back and was about to be his real impressive self any day now. Witness the near nervous breakdown they've been having across the water about the European Championships being denied the early adornment of Rooney's presence. It's as though those two World Cups where he didn't manage to take a shot, let alone score a goal, never happened.

When you examine the English media's attitude towards Rooney, it's clear we're dealing with pathology rather than logic. They big up the player to ludicrous heights for the same reason that their music press used to laud Donovan as the new Bob Dylan back in the '60s. They want a genius of their own because they feel it's their right.

Fabio Capello, whose willingness to dump on John Terry last year showed he views staying on the right side of the English media as perhaps the most important requirement in his job, knows this. That's why he told last week's disciplinary hearing that he was at fault for Rooney's sending-off against Montenegro because he should have taken the player off before that. Rooney was 'distracted' apparently. This really is We Need To Talk About Wayne territory.

I wonder if Ferguson is haunted by thoughts of what would have happened had he sold Rooney to City. The astronomical fee would have enabled him to do vital rebuilding work at Old Trafford but, just as importantly, it would also have prevented City from signing other new players with that money. I wonder if he thinks about the future which never was, one where Rooney huffs and puffs and sulks at Eastlands while David Silva and Sergio Aguero turn out for the Red Devils. Because while Rooney will have some great moments before the season is out, a hat-trick against Wigan perhaps, a couple of stunning long-range strikes in games when United are 2-0 up, there won't be enough of them.

The biggest irony of all is that Rooney's greatest cheerleaders are those who perceive him as an embodiment of sturdy English yeoman values as opposed to the poncy unreliable 'Continental' footballing culture personified by the likes of Cristiano Ronaldo. This perhaps arises because, just as people think that the plain girl must have a great personality and the fat man must be jolly, they imagine a rugged-looking Scouser must be all grit and spirit.

But with his sublime technical ability, questionable work rate, dubious temperament and 'when the going gets tough the tough start sulking' attitude, do you know what Wayne Rooney is?

He's a 'Continental'.

backpage@independent.ie

- Eamonn Sweeney

Sorry but quoting some hack from the rag that is the Sunday Indo has as much cred as loyalty in the EPL.

Parouisa wrote:Sorry but quoting some hack from the rag that is the Sunday Indo has as much cred as loyalty in the EPL.

I don't agree with all the article although he has some valid points, it is isn't up to his usual standards but Sweeney is far from a hack and about the only decent sports journalist the Sindo have.

The Puke wrote:

Parouisa wrote:Sorry but quoting some hack from the rag that is the Sunday Indo has as much cred as loyalty in the EPL.

I don't agree with all the article although he has some valid points, it is isn't up to his usual standards but Sweeney is far from a hack and about the only decent sports journalist the Sindo have.

Fixed.

There is confusion among football fans tonight. The Man City fans who used to support Chelsea who supported Arsenal before that are not sure if they should be Chelsea fans again and the Man Utd fans who supported Chelsea tonight will be cheering Arsenal on sunday! I'm confused

If Chelsea persist with AVB and give him a few transfer windows to bring in his own players and clear out the deadwood and aging players they will have a fine side in 18 months or so. Both Mata and Romeu look like excellent signing already.

AVB looks to have an excellent technical football brain and will get them playing decent attacking football if he can get in two or three key players. Someone like Modric would be a super signing in midfield beside Ramires energy and Romeu's industry. A decent centre half could be needed as well, Terry just ain't suited to a team that play with a high line.

The Puke wrote:Terry just ain't suited to a team that play with a high line.

Any player that has the speed of a tortoise with a broken leg ain't suited to a team that play with a high line.

Parouisa wrote:

The Puke wrote:Terry just ain't suited to a team that play with a high line.

Any player that has the speed of a tortoise with a broken leg ain't suited to a team that play with a high line.

Disagree. Ask Wayne Bridge's bird.

Very good documentary on Frank O'Farrell tonight. Clearly got shafted by United back in the early 70s - so shafting not a new phenomenon! He must be one of the few people with (quite clearly) little or no regard for Busby. Interesting to see Crerand defending United (his meal ticket) and Busby to the full. Not sure he was right with his assessment that O'Farrell wasn't good enough - he was a better manager than Crerand never was.

You'd have to like and respect O'Farrell - clearly a good living, honest and intelligent man - and no mean manager either. But he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. He does not come across as bitter - but knows he was seriously shafted nonetheless.

Crerand is a sickening individual to listen to..

Parouisa wrote: He must be one of the few people with (quite clearly) little or no regard for Busby .

A couple of the survivors of the Munich crash who were unable to play again for the club (Jackie Blanchflower included) found themselves fooked out of their club provided houses, courtesy of the said Busby and his overlord, Louis Edwards, the master butcher of Manchester.

It's a commercial enterprise with some murky dealings. Busby et al remind me of some of our Celtic Tiger entrepreneurs...

Happy 70th Sir Alex Ferguson. Great manager, great man and all round legend. We at GG salute you.

Jonsmith wrote:Happy 70th Sir Alex Ferguson. Great manager, great man and all round legend. We at GG salute you.

A decentskin. A man from humble beginnings who never lost the run of himself. He has retained these traits of humility, modesty and decency throughout his working life. Not for him the sly practises of "touting" or seeking to enhance his personal bank balance.

A paternalistic club manager, his was the shoulder troubled souls could go to cry on and he was empathetic to a fault....He was, after all, a bit like one of our own, sharing an interest in horse racing and Irish history and given the hue of his beak, partial to a large Jameson or possibly 10.

I am reminded of a phrase once coined in relation to Ger Loughnane, "He treated us all the same, like fooking dogs"....
A charlatan cum spoofer of the highest order....

Idiots trying to put out second choice teams.

No such complacency from 'Arry.

Tottenham continue to close.

The demise of Manchester United continues unabated I see

Tim Howard's goal

http://videa.hu/videok/sport/gva1-0fmatchhighlight.com-http-www.matchhighlight.com-fiDgEMK1lx7SFNk6

Fergie must go. Don't want to be ageist but ....

When City win at the weekend we may see scenes reminiscent of the anti Steve Kean stuff at Ewood Park ...

Parouisa wrote:Fergie must go. Don't want to be ageist but ....

When City win at the weekend we may see scenes reminiscent of the anti Steve Kean stuff at Ewood Park ...

Once he started speaking to the Beeb it was a sign that his resilience is on the wane.