Re: Euro 2012 Thread

[The Puke]

Good article by Vincent Hogan today

Proud, honest team nobody wants to love By Vincent Hogan


Monday March 28 2011

It was gone 10.0 on Saturday night when the FAI press officer was asked for an attendance figure.

"Thirty-three thousand ... " he began, the smaller digits instantly washed away in journalists' guffaws. He knew better than to challenge the chorus and slipped away with a gently exasperated smile. Cynicism is a mindset that consumes reportage of the nation's football team.

And, even on the good nights, it gets aired.

The attendance had been poor, no question; great swathes of empty green seats offering a bemusing backdrop to the victory over Macedonia. The result put Giovanni Trapattoni's team joint top of Group B, thereby retaining a realistic opportunity of making it to next year's Euro finals.

Yet, the team continues to exist beyond the reach of mass affection.

On Friday, Paul McShane went on TV to lament what he called the "bit of a (media) circus" that greets Republic players when reporting for international duty. He talked of people endlessly having "snipes".

And it is, maybe, worth comparing the public support accessible to this team to the acclaim raining down lately on our cricketers, rugby players, golfers and National Hunt stalwarts.

Wealth probably has something to do with it. For all the apocalyptic din of economies sliding down the John, football remains a profession that rewards even its non-entities absurdly. Hence the perception that you can be unexceptional at your job, yet still live in a giant wedding cake and drive something that zaps whole rain forests in one trip to the newsagents.

We are intolerant of our professional footballers, not because of what they do, but where it takes them.

Dublin, essentially, had its back turned on Saturday night as they eked out three precious qualifying points with a characteristically uneven performance. For 44 minutes, they played Macedonia off the park, then conceded a goal and, thereafter, treated the ball as if it was a rolled-up cobra.

So they didn't get much credit for beating awkward opponents and, inevitably, the sparse crowd energised fresh media conjecture about the FAI's ability to service the stadium debt.

It's tough love this team encounters or, occasionally, none at all.

Robbie Keane is captain and emblem of the story. On Saturday night, he scored his 46th international goal with an opportunist finish, despite having spent the bulk of the previous two months on physio benches and in cryotherapy chambers. What Robbie does shouldn't be possible.

Hence, he divides people. He isn't quick, has never been physically imposing and is prone to moments of silly melodrama. Worse, he's also the wrong side of 30, which makes him a virtual listed building.

Yet, he's won more games for his country than any player alive or dead.

His strike-rate is uncanny and Saturday's jabbed finish, after the calamitous Edin Nuredinoski spilled Darron Gibson's thunderbolt free, spoke of a player just thinking half a second quicker than the big centre-backs assigned to guard him.

"That's my game," he smiled impassively afterwards. "Long-distance running isn't." He was civil and courteous in the 'mixed zone', meeting each question with a concise response, if never quite opening a door to his soul.

occurred

Saturday's was his 105th cap and the thought occurred that, some day soon, he will walk away from this without anyone truly knowing him.

Managers recite odes to his professionalism and team-mates speak of his competitive intelligence. Keane is, essentially, the dressing-room thermostat. Yet, outside that room, he tosses a veil across his personality.

That he should score another winner on Saturday seemed immaterial to him, given the breadth of other stories to explore. He lamented the injury to Kevin Doyle as well as Boban Grncharov's outrageous lunge on Shane Long that left the Tipperary man, as Keane put it, with an ear that was "nearly hanging off".

"It looks like when Tyson bit yer man (Evander Holyfield) in the boxing. It should have been a sending-off. It was a horrific tackle. The referee was only 10 yards away, so I can't understand how he didn't see it."

He rightly sang the praises of those making their competitive debuts, Keiren Westwood, Kevin Foley and Darren O'Dea, and expressed delight at Aiden McGeady's arrival as a goalscorer and James McCarthy's as an Irishman. And he touched too on, maybe, the one irredeemably black spot of the evening.

Richard Dunne's yellow for a tug on Goran Pandev means that Ireland must go to Skopje next June without their defensive anchor. That game may define the group and Dunne's absence will narrow the percentages for Trapattoni. Keane considers that rule of a suspension for two yellows to be penal.

"We were talking about this before the game during the pre-match meal," he told us. "This thing about two yellow cards is ... the chances of a defender getting two yellow cards is 100pc going to happen. They have to change that rule.

"I don't want to go on about this and I don't want it to be the headline. But two yellows? It's a given that a defender is going to get them."

He had a little jibe too at Wigan manager Roberto Martinez for his bizarre dissertations on McCarthy.

"I was speaking to him before the game," he said of the Scottish-born midfielder. "And I said, 'I bet you can't wait just to get this over with.' Just to stop people from talking about it and maybe his manager.

"I think it was a bit frustrating for him. Because he was desperate to play (for Ireland). I spoke to people in the last couple of months that James knows very well and there was never any question that he was going to turn his back.

"His family is all Irish and he is desperate to play for us."

There was the air of a mother hen almost, tidying up loose ends. Keane is logical enough to know that this may be his last qualifying campaign. His career is slowing and, for every ageing front man, the only guarantee is looming demotion.

Long has begun growing into someone who looks comfortable at this level and Jonathan Walters is swimming strongly in the Premier League currents. Yet, Keane's career has been distinguished by a penalty-box savvy that, you have to suspect, isn't accessible through coaching manuals. Maybe only when he goes will the nation fully understand what it was he did.

On Saturday, Damien Duff and McGeady played thrillingly down the flanks and, despite a bumpy pitch, the team dominated first-half possession through touch and sheer force of will.

If Pandev was the danger, he never got scope to express it. O'Dea's fifth-minute dispossession was beautifully timed and, soon after, Keane raced back to pick the Macedonian captain's pocket. By the ninth minute, Pandev was squaring up to O'Dea and you realised that, already, his appetite was waning.

Vance Shikov and Velice Shumulikoski then had words when McGeady skipped between them and, after Robbie's goal, the Macedonian coach and goalkeeper could be seen communicating in a sign language that wasn't especially warm.

It was all Ireland now and, you sensed, a third goal might tip a landslide.

But Ivan Trichkovski's movement had been creating ripples of worry and the moment he swivelled away from Dunne to score on the cusp of half-time, a hard frost took hold in Irish minds. "We didn't make things easy for ourselves," confessed Glenn Whelan. "Their goal came as a bit of a kick up the **** and we got sloppy. Instead of going for the third, we started to slow things down."

They did, but the work ethic never tapered. And Westwood's 75th-minute block, after Trichkovski slipped behind a tiring Irish cover, was the moment you sensed they'd ride out the storm.

Keane lasted 87 minutes before, palpably exhausted, he was hauled ashore, his credit lost in the raucous ovation for the arriving McCarthy. Too slow, too small, too whimsical, we keep scoffing in the press box.

Yet, the captain has a return of a goal almost every second game for Ireland and, if his team is a disappointment to aesthetes, it lacks nothing in competitive aggression. They live with a restive audience, yet keep on seeking out the best of themselves.

They may not have the nation's love yet, but they are entitled to something better than its ambivalence.

- Vincent Hogan

Irish Independent

[Jayo Cluxton]

They may not have the nation's love yet, but they are entitled to something better than its ambivalence.

A huge issue here is ticket pricing and the way the tickets are distributed (ie in packages). The FAI can't have it every way - yet they continue to try. Look at the crowd at Parnell on Sunday - a lovely day so people rolled up - because they could. You cannot decide at the last minute to stroll to the Aviva and buy a ticket outside - even though less than half have been sold. Stupid.

[RMDrive]

Apparently Kelly has said that the ticket prices must change too. The IRFU reacted very quickly to this last year. Looks like the FAI are slower off the mark.

[Jayo Cluxton]

Apparently Kelly has said that the ticket prices must change too. The IRFU reacted very quickly to this last year. Looks like the FAI are slower off the mark.

In all honesty the IRFU did **** all. Prices for France and England were as exorbitant as they were for the Autumn internationals.

[The Puke]

They may not have the nation's love yet, but they are entitled to something better than its ambivalence.

A huge issue here is ticket pricing and the way the tickets are distributed (ie in packages). The FAI can't have it every way - yet they continue to try. Look at the crowd at Parnell on Sunday - a lovely day so people rolled up - because they could. You cannot decide at the last minute to stroll to the Aviva and buy a ticket outside - even though less than half have been sold. Stupid.

You must rememeber simple maths all the same, think the tickets were 35 euro a game as part of the package

35 euro x 30,000 = 1,050,000

20 euro x 45,000 = 900,000


Tickets may well have priced some out of the market but a lot seem to have completely deluded expectations of the team and the amount of negativity after a fairly solid win saturday night was absurd....As I have said before, take the top half a dozen countries out of Europe and the rest are distinctly average, some people seem to expect us to be playing like Barcelona

[Jayo Cluxton]

I read when the FAI guy gave the 30,000 figure everyone there laughed. Think it was nearer 20k meself. It shouldn't be just about money either. It should be about making the games more accessible for people - especially young people - and remember soccer has historically a huge following among the working class - many of whom are unfortunately now the not working class.

As regards the team's expectations its a bit like the Dubs - the real fan knows where we're at but the media, as usual, haven't a clue ..... and print all types of *****!

[Grenvile]

If the tickets were affordable and bigger crowds were going it can only help the team, make Lansdowne into a stadium that opposing teams will have a tough time at because of massive home support.
Also I'm sure many people don't go to the qualifiers because they'll say "Ah sure there'll be no atmosphere with a half full stadium I'll just watch it in the pub" Raise the numbers attending with lower prices and it helps the team and raises the profile of the games.

I agree with Puke about the expectations of some, including Dunphy and Giles! Dunphy suggested dropping McGeady to bring in Fahey??! Did he watch the game I wonder? People need to realise that Trap has done the only thing he can do with the players available, set them up to sneak wins against weaker opposition and frustrate the bigger sides, take the odd scalp here and there and with a bit of luck qualify for the Competitions. People were going mad last year because Andy Reid wasn't called up, Andy Reid(!!) was apparently going to transform us into Barcelona..

[RMDrive]

Why can't they play with some of the drive that was evident when they played France in Paris? I know that was a knock out game but what we see from game to game in the qualifiers is too restrained and too stifled. In saying that I have a lot of respect for this current team and indeed for anyone who pulls on the jersey and plays with pride. They definitely get a hard time from the press and public.

[The Puke]

Why can't they play with some of the drive that was evident when they played France in Paris? I know that was a knock out game but what we see from game to game in the qualifiers is too restrained and too stifled. In saying that I have a lot of respect for this current team and indeed for anyone who pulls on the jersey and plays with pride. They definitely get a hard time from the press and public.

The current team come across as a very sound bunch of lads and very little ego in any of them, especially compared to their English counterparts....All genuinely seemed to be fully committed and I thought it was refreshing to see them scoff at Pennant and O'Hara's half hearted attempts to join the set up and more a less say that they weren't really welcome.....In fairness to the likes of McCarthy, St Ledger, McGeady, Clarke, Gibson etc they all declared very early in their careers to Ireland, while Liam Lawrence and Paul Green despite being somewhat limited have burst a gut every time they have played for Ireland

[Jayo Cluxton]

I was kind of hoping Pennant would sign up and leave a Porsche behind him ... whereby the plates could be changed ....

[Grenvile]

Green may bust a gut but I really do think he was out of his depth at international level.. Lawrence always seems to put in a decent performance. Andrews is a player I always liked to see in an Irish shirt. His spate with Diarra after the home leg of the France tie showed that he wasn't going to let himself or the team be insulted by the French.. He played a stormer in France then as far as I can recall..

[Jayo Cluxton]

Czech Republic v Liechtenstein
Sweden v Moldova
Israel v Georgia
Turkey v Austria
Romania v Luxembourg
Estonia v Serbia
Netherlands v Hungary
Belgium v Azerbaijan
Lithuania v Spain
Northern Ireland v Slovenia

Winners in bold!

[The Puke]

I would never back against Norn Iron in fortress Windsor

[Jayo Cluxton]

I would never back against Norn Iron in fortress Windsor

But they're not very good ....

[The Puke]

Uruguay in second gear are cutting us to pieces at will....In fairness we have been positive in our football and started well but this is just an illustration as to why we play a fairly regimented style in competative matches......


3-1 now....Give me the "boring, unadventurous" 4-4-2 as opposed to this shapeless, rudderless 4-3-3


Granted it is an experiental side but for a side with three central midfielders the only lads pressing the ball are Lawrence and Keogh

[The Puke]

Game performance from Ireland who never dropped their heads and worked hard throughout, but in saying that Uruguay could have scored 6 or 7 tonight of they were in the mood, they went through our midfield and defence at times tonight at will....

As I said earlier Long, Keogh & Lawrence were the pick of the players for us and pretty much all of our best attacking play came from these three, Keogh is fairly limited but ran himself into the ground tonight and got himself into the box on several occasions....Long is a handful up front took his goal well and skinned his man for the peno....Ran the channels well and made it tough for the Uruguayan defence, disappointed that McCarthy was fairly anonymous tonight as I thought he would have looked to link up with Long far more

It would be great to have him back between the posts but if Given doesn't move on from City this summer then it may not be as big a disaster as we thought as Westwood looks a very able deputy and no doubt will be snapped up by a decent side in the summer

Clark got skinned far too often at left back and like at club level he seems to struggle at left back when he is ran at....Fahey started both halves well but disappeared once Uruguay started passing the ball around in the first half

[Jayo Cluxton]

Czech Republic v Liechtenstein
Sweden v Moldova
Israel v Georgia
Turkey v Austria
Romania v Luxembourg
Estonia v Serbia
Netherlands v Hungary
Belgium v Azerbaijan
Lithuania v Spain
Northern Ireland v Slovenia

Winners in bold!

8/10 - with Serbia having a goal disallowed in the 93rd minute! Game played in snow and at zero degrees!

[The Puke]

Trapattoni: Change of heart
If they want me I’m available insists Trapattoni as he reveals he wants to lead Ireland to 2014 World Cup in Brazil


For once, there was no ambiguity in Giovanni Trapattoni's message. The intention was clear.

He has decided that he wants to continue as Ireland manager until the World Cup in Brazil in 2014. If he is asked to stay, the offer will be accepted.

"If they want me, I am available," said the 72-year-old in the Clarion Airport Hotel yesterday morning, as he prepared to jet back to Italy after a busy week of activity that concluded with encouragement in defeat to Uruguay on Tuesday. "If they not want, I can look about other possibilities."

The FAI will have noted his words. Trapattoni has been asked before about his ambition beyond the end of the current European Championship qualifying campaign, when his contract expires. Generally, the response has been positive enough. His employers have also publicly said that they have an open mind with respect to the future.

Yet, in the wake of the 72-year-old's health scare in January, his second within the space of six months, the vibe was that when this campaign ended, Trapattoni would step aside. His assistant, Marco Tardelli, has already been touted as a possible successor by Liam Brady.

Energised

However, energised by the events of the past week, the Irish boss has evidently decided that he is ready to go again for another campaign.

Unquestionably, his contract will be a source of debate this summer. In a change of protocol, the World Cup qualifying draw has been brought forward to July. For the European teams, it's a novel situation.

Generally, the draw would take place at the beginning of next year, giving those nations who have missed out on Euro 2012 something to look forward to, often with new managers in place after the conclusion of the previous campaign.

This time it will be different. Trapattoni will be the Irish manager when the balls are plucked out of the drum in Rio and will therefore be asked to weigh up the opposition and offer his opinions. When that matter arises, it is possible that he still won't know if he'll be in charge for that task.

Of course, it's easy to appreciate the FAI's position. Realistically, they can't judge Trapattoni on his performances in his second campaign in charge until the business end is reached in the autumn, with the visit of Slovakia and a trip to Russia. If they offer a new deal before then, and it all goes up in smoke in Moscow, then they will be slated.

After all, this is a cash-strapped association and he is the highest-paid employee at €1.7m a year, although half of that is provided by Denis O'Brien. There are other factors at play here, which will all come into the mix as the months tick by.

Trapattoni will be 75 when the 2014 finals in Brazil come around and he spoke almost dreamily about the prospect of going there, perhaps envisaging a trip to the spiritual home of football as his ideal swansong.

"Obviously, I would be proud to continue because the next World Cup is in Brazil," he said. "Brazil is Brazil, eh. To go to Brazil as the manager, it would be a good moment."

After the pain of Paris, the Italian declared that his job with Ireland was only half done. Now, halfway into the second campaign, he seems to believe that he is still has just as much to look forward to with this team.

The fielding of a makeshift side on Tuesday, with a sprinkling of youth, has offered some vision for life beyond the goal of progressing to Poland and Ukraine next year. In fact, he cited this summer's planned trip to the United States, where Ireland will play two matches, as an exercise that could perform a similar function as the jaunt to the Algarve which kicked off his tenure.

"If the FAI is happy, and they believe in our project, I think we can do a good job," he said. "A project began one year ago to change the team. We have shown that some players who didn't play a year ago have improved, like Shane Long.

"I think we can improve. Maybe this summer, we go to America and the senior players will not come. We had two days before the game on Tuesday to try a new system. If we have 10 days, or two weeks, to show them their jobs, it can be a good exercise.

"I will promote this option. It may be difficult for English teams to let players go at the end of the long season, but we have to show it would be an opportunity to play Italy or Mexico or countries like that with this group."

Given the impact of Thierry Henry's handball and his chequered experience with Italy in Japan and Korea in 2002, Trapattoni was asked if there was a sense of unfinished business around the greatest tournament of them all.

Humorously, he picked up on the word 'business' and started talking about corruption in FIFA, with paranoia having set in from those scarring experiences.

He spoke a little about UEFA chief Michel Platini, while choosing not to refer to Sepp Blatter by name. Just the "FIFA president." Then he mentioned Byron Moreno, the Ecuadorian referee who was in charge when South Korea shocked Italy in 2002 courtesy of some dubious decisions.

"The referee is in prison," he said, a reference to Moreno's subsequent arrest for heroin smuggling.

"The competitions are very important for business," he went on. "When I was Italy manager in Korea, well, I should give you the DVD. This was the World Cup. And France. I know they had a lot of interest in the tournament. Be it media, be it business, be it money.

"But I think, with this group, I achieved some very good results with a strong team. So maybe with UEFA and FIFA, I'm due a bit of credit, a bit of luck. Some payback."

His chances of atonement will depend on whether the FAI is willing to splash out.

- Daniel McDonnell

Irish Independent

[The Puke]

Suppose they will do well to get 25k in the Aviva tonight

[Jayo Cluxton]

Suppose they will do well to get 25k in the Aviva tonight

Nothing near it I think. I'd be afraid to go in case they ask me to play ....

[Grenvile]

Embarrassing for Northern Ireland tonight to be honest.. Woeful stuff. Good to see Keane is still hungry enough to moan when taken off.

[patrique]

Embarrassing for Northern Ireland tonight to be honest.. Woeful stuff. Good to see Keane is still hungry enough to moan when taken off.

I note the main song the ROI fans sing is about a thief.

Most appropriate.

In about 5 years the hypocrites will be moaning about the N.Ireland team being all protestant, without acknowledging the fact that the ROI are currently indulging in a form of apartheid.

I assume ROI won tonight?

[Grenvile]

5-0 to ROI, could have been 10, embarrassing from NI.

I wasn't aware that Ireland had broken any rules in playing the lads who declared for Ireland?! Don't hate the player hate the game Pat..

[The Puke]

Huge game in Skopje this weekend

[The Puke]

Looks as though Kelly and O'Dea will get the nod in defence while surprisingly Cox will start up front with Keane instead of Long.....



Say what you want about Trap but he has certainly built a squad with far more depth that we had when he took over, granted we may lack real quality in certain positions but we have plenty of options now in most areas


Keeepers:
Given and Westwood

Right back:
O'Shea, Kelly, Foley, Coleman & McShane

Centre Halves
Dunne, St Ledger, O'Shea, O'Dea, Clark, McShane, Kelly, Wilson

Left Back:
Kilbane, Ward, Clark, Cunningham

Right Midfield:
McGeady, Duff, Lawrence, Coleman, Fahey

Left Midfield:
Duff, McGeady, Hunt, Fahey, Treacy

Central Midfield:
Whelan, Andrews, Gibson, Fahey, Green, McCarthy, Wilson

Strikers:
Keane, Doyle, Long, Cox, Walters, Best, Keogh

And I am sure i have forgotten a few

Granted the likes of Green, McShane, Keogh to name but a few aren't up to much but all have plenty of experience at this stage and we have a system and a squad that can cope with injuries.....If we were going into a game without Dunne and Duff a couple of years ago we would have been seriously struggling for alternatives

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