Kerry v Tyrone

Real Kerry Fan wrote:Well here we are. The match of the year in Killarney on Saturday. If my memory serves me right it is the first time that an All Ireland final was played in July. What are Kerry's chances. Slim as per Mr. Spillane and he is always right. I note that Jack is getting it hot and heavy on Kerry websites etc. Now Jack is Kerrys 2nd most successful manager in the past 40 years and suddenly he is the worst ever. To any Kerry supporter who may view this thread please note we have no divine right to win All Irelands every year. Anyway in fairness this Kerry team owes nobody anthing and my one hope is if beaten fine but not hammered. Tyrone are staring a bit of momentum waith Mulligan in form plus some new lads stepping up to the mark. I fear for the Kerry backs based on this years performances. Tyrone I expect to win but I am clinging to the one big performance from Kerry. Expect at least two red cards as both teams know that they will have give all. Heres to a great game.

Such its the appeal to the general public, this game is already being discussed across a couple of different threads, so I thought I'd consolidate here. RKF is hoping for a narrow defeat, and no more than one red card - sounds like a bit of 'Cute Hoorism' to me!

This is a mouth-watering clash for sure. The 2 teams that every other county has looked up to for the last while. 2 counties who lots of people feel are on the wane.

I think this is a perfect game for Kerry. It's time to sh1t or get off the pot for this team. If the legs are gone or the drive and desire is gone, then Kerry would be better to know that now and start planning for a new-look team next year. I expect the old guard to step forward again though and beat Tyrone.

Tyrone are in the middle of a fairly calm and slow (too slow perhaps?) transition. They have remained very competitive throughout and were it not for some tough injuries this year, would be in an even better spot. I cannot see them beating Kerry in Killarney though. Whatever about losing to Tyrone up in Dublin, to do so on the home patch would I'm sure be considered unforgivable by the Kerry folk.

Has a time been confirmed for the game yet? I presume it's going to be on the box?

Second round in a row that the most attractive tie possible is drawn from the bowls. (Although this time at least for footballing reasons)

This has the makings of a great encounter and you would have to imagine this fixture more than any will bring out the best in an ageing Kerry side. Home advantage could be vital here too. I'd imagine Kerry will shade this by 2/3.

Has it been confirmed if this is on TV?

I don't think that there should be any question marks about Kerry's desire, and would instead pose the simple question: 'Do some of their key players (i.e. Tomas, Brosnan, O'Mahony, Galvin & Donaghy) still have the legs?'.

If the answer is 'yes', then, playing at home, they will raise their game and beat a Tyrone side that is understrengthed and lacking in scoring power.

If the answer is 'no', Kerry will struggle to match Tyrone's pace & intensity, and the winner will be determined by how many/few scoring chances Tyrone convert.

The massive appeal of this game speaks volumes of the rivalry shared between the two teams in the last decade. There is barely a mention of the Ulster Final even in the Northern press which probably suits Jim McGuinness just fine. Many of the usual suspects will not be on show and whilst the football aristocrats are still smarting from their semi final defeat in 2003, All Ireland final losses in 2005 and 2008 they won't have Murphy between the sticks, McCarthy at full back, the tenacious tight marker Tom O'Sullivan and the legend that was Seamus Moynihan in defence, No Darragh in the middle with partners Kirby or Scanlan, In the forwards no Hassett or O'Cinneide.

Tyrone too show major change from that era we no longer have Jordan, Chris Lawn, Gourley or McGee, In the middle we won't have Sean Cavanagh and the work horses Enda McGinley, Collie Holmes and Hub Hughes, In the forward line we won't have Peter the great, The legendary Brian Dooher, Geard Cavlan, Ryan Mellon or Colm McCullagh.

Whilst some of the faces may have changed the rivalry and pride and honour at stake for all involved at the weekend will not be surpassed. Tyrone certainly won't fear going down to Killarney, in fact the sight of a green and gold jersey seems to bring out the best in them, the question is whether the porous Tyrone defence can contain the Gooch, Declan and Darren O'Sillivan as well as possible points to prove from Donaghy and Galvin. Kerry have really only one tight man marker in Marc O'Se, Tom O'Sullivan not being there anymore leaves a major hole in that area. Mickey will no doubt be hoping to pick holes in this defence, from a Tyrone perspective it is imperative that O'Neill starts. I've heard that his wife is expecting a baby any day now (if it hasnt been born already) which may detract from his focus but if fit he will have a major bearing on proceedings. The 2005 final ended up in a scoreline of Tyrone 1-16 Kerry 2-10. I'll settle for a bit nore of that come 7pm on Saturday evening!

From today's Irish Times .....

Unfinished business beckons for Kerry
DARRAGH Ó SÉ

THE MIDDLE THIRD: WHEN I heard the draw on Monday morning, my reaction was probably the same as most people’s in Kerry. Delighted. If anything is going to lift Kerry’s season, bringing Tyrone down to Killarney will surely do it. If they’re not going to click for this match and especially against this opposition, then an All-Ireland probably wasn’t ever really a possibility anyway. A lot of Kerry people would feel that we owe Tyrone. But the truth is, as a county we owe it to ourselves to find a way to beat them. If we do, it will have been a long time coming.


Let’s start at the start. The problem for us in 2003 was Tyrone were pretty new on the scene and while we knew a bit about them, video footage wasn’t as readily accessible as it would be today. Mickey Harte was a new name to us as well because, outside of the club scene, he wouldn’t have been all that well known.

They took us by surprise because, as far as we could see, they were putting up big scores in the Ulster championship and the football they were playing was free-flowing, getting fast ball into good forwards who were putting it over the bar. They scored 17 points against Derry, 1-17 against Antrim and then 1-17 and 0-23 in the drawn final and replay against Down.

The one thing we were definitely not expecting was the level of intensity they brought to their tackling. It didn’t seem to be there to the same extent in the matches that had gone before. Maybe we dismissed the Ulster championship a bit on the back of the scores they were putting up. Even though we’d lost to Armagh in the previous year’s All- Ireland final, we were still probably a small bit guilty of not getting overly worried when it came to playing northern teams. Looking back, I’d have to say we took Tyrone lightly and to some extent we took a win for granted.

It was the last time we ever did that against them. They brought a whole new game with them that day and they set the tone for how football was going to be played for the next 10 years. It wasn’t just work-rate and it wasn’t just tackling. It was a whole new level of tactics and thought and we had no answer for it.

Little things always come back to me about that day. I’d say I probably found it easier to catch ball in that game than in any other in my career.

It was only as the game wore on that I began to realise why – every time I came down with the ball, it was like being set upon by a pack of wolves. I don’t know if I got a clean ball away all day. Sitting here nine years later it seems like the most obvious tactic in the world but back then you just didn’t see that kind of thing happen with such regularity. We weren’t prepared for it.

Everybody got to see how tactically astute Mickey Harte was in the years that followed but we got our lessons taught to us early. He has this way of getting players to give up their usual game for the sake of someone else on the team. Even in that 2003 game, they were using their wing forward Gerard Cavlan as an outlet for their kick-outs. Cavlan was a fine point-scorer but his main job that day against us seemed to be to collect kick-outs and start attacks. He never seemed to have a problem with it.

That’s been a feature of Tyrone all the way down the years. In the 2005 final, I lined up against Seán Cavanagh. As far as I was concerned, the primary job of a midfielder was to contest the ball and link the play. But Tyrone did it differently and that day, Cavanagh’s job was to get attacks going and to hurt the opposition. What I noticed was Cavanagh seemed to be excused the heavy lifting and that Tyrone were happy enough to leave the likes of Enda McGinley and Colin Holmes to get in and do that for him.

It meant an odd kind of game for me. I actually got forward and scored two points – probably half of my total in all the games I played for Kerry – because I had nobody marking me. I was nominally Cavanagh’s man but marking me wasn’t his job. His job was to get on the ball and attack space. He wasn’t going in to contest kick-outs, he was hanging back about 10 yards towards our goal.

Every Tyrone player in and around the middle knew exactly where he was going to be and all day, he was the one they hit as soon as they picked up any ball around the middle. Again, it was just a small example of Harte thinking his way around a game and it paid off.

This has been the big thing about Tyrone under him. They have evolved, not just with every season but almost with every match.

Kerry lost to them in 2003, 2005 and 2008 but we never played the same Tyrone twice. There was something new each time. That first year, they brought tackling to a new level and completely overwhelmed us.

But they knew the element of surprise wasn’t going to be enough the second time so they outthought us.

They made it a chess game and while it produced the best All-Ireland final of the decade, from a Kerry point of view it always felt like we were one move behind.

They always brought something to the table. I remember playing a league match against them above in Omagh one year where we went in three or four points up at half-time. About five minutes into the second half, they upped the pace as though they had flicked a switch.

I often wondered afterwards whether they had something like the equivalent of the 99 call that the Lions had against South Africa in 1974 because for a sustained period of 10 minutes they played like it was the last time any of them were going to see a ball in their lives.

They tore through us and went from being three or four points behind to four or five ahead. From there to the end of the game, they were like a cat with a ball of wool. They slowed the whole thing down and let us have a bit of possession but they did everything they could to hold on to their lead.

They protected their defence, made sure to make the right kind of fouls nowhere close to goal and in the end they won the game.

We never regarded them as a bogey team or anything like that but, after 2005, there was no doubt we were dying to be drawn against them. In 2006 and ’07, we just wanted a shot at them. Whether it be in a final, a semi-final or a qualifier, we wanted the monkey off our back. We’d beaten Cork, we’d beaten Armagh, we’d beaten Dublin, we’d beaten Mayo. They were the one job that was left to be done.

Going into the 2008 final, I thought we had our best chance of beating them. But they out-thought us again that day.

One of the things they did was to target me, not in any physical way but in a tactical way. Maybe they were targeting my age and my waistline more than anything. Kevin Hughes came on and started running away out to all different areas of the pitch and getting me to follow him. He was going where the ball wasn’t and I was following. After a while, I just decided to leave him go do all the running he liked and to play my own game. But this went on for 10 or 15 minutes until the penny dropped and I’d say it cost me a lot of energy at the end of the game.

Harte’s other masterstroke that year was to bring Stephen O’Neill back into the squad for the final. He didn’t start the game but he came on near the end of the first half. Straight away, we reacted by putting Marc Ó Sé on him. It was only afterwards we realised O’Neill wasn’t anywhere near match-fit enough to have a big effect on the game and that we had basically wasted Marc by putting him on him. Meanwhile, Seán Cavanagh scored five points from play.

They’re on the go for 10 seasons at this stage and I don’t think it’s going over the top to say that Tyrone have changed the game.

Everybody thinks about it now and tries to come up with new ways of approaching it. Even the cynical side of it that I was writing about last week, Tyrone were ahead of the posse in that regard too. They always knew who in your team was on a yellow card and how to niggle away at him to see if he’d boil over. They always knew as well who in their own side didn’t have one and who could afford to pick one up if the situation called for it.

If you had to pick out one thing about them through all the years, it’s that they were well-organised and most of the time they tried to take the right option. Even up to last Saturday against Roscommon, you could see as clear as day from the stand which county had three All-Irelands in its recent past and which county had a bunch of good young players who are still learning.

The Tyrone forwards rarely took the silly shot from the sideline or the endline – they were always trying to work it back for someone in a better position. But Roscommon tried it a few times, with predictable results.

A good player isn’t one who can kick the impossible point, it’s one who knows there’s more to be gained by not going for it. Tyrone are very comfortable in their own skin and they know their own quality.

Kerry know it too and Jack O’Connor has a big job on his hands this week getting his players ready for this one. Things are at a low enough ebb after just scraping past Westmeath last Sunday but the one thing I’d be encouraged by is the fact it was very obvious all of the Kerry players were really trying. Their body language was good and the intent was there. If it wasn’t, I’d be a lot more worried for them against Tyrone.

As it is, I’m hoping for one last big stand from them. There are players in that team that have given the Kerry public such great times over the years and if they were able to find it in themselves to add a win over Tyrone to everything they’ve achieved, it would be something to really savour.

Now, I know plenty of the country wouldn’t feel the same way. In fact, it’s probably only recently that I really learned how people see us.

Funny enough, it was while watching a hurling game – the Leinster final between Kilkenny and Galway. We’d been to the Munster football final between Cork and Clare and we headed down the town to grab a couple of pints and watch the hurling.

There were men in the pub from every county. Clare, Limerick, Cork, Tipperary and all around. All the nationalities. What I couldn’t believe was every last one of them was shouting for Galway. And not just shouting for them but taking complete and utter joy in seeing Kilkenny getting a hammering. They were roaring and shouting and yahooing every time Galway scored.

Somewhere in the middle of all this, the realisation dawned. Jesus, this is probably how people in other counties see Kerry in football.

Now, you’re probably reading this and thinking, ‘Good man, Einstein’ but honestly, this would have all passed me by. When you’re playing, you’re in your own little bubble. You’re aware that other counties probably don’t want you to win but you never experience it first-hand. These guys were jumping out of their skin as if they’d supported Galway all their lives.

I found it very odd they wanted to see one of the greatest teams of all time in any sport not just beaten but absolutely buried. It would be more my thinking that, not unlike Tiger Woods, you’d want to see the best win as much as the best can manage.

Maybe people want to see Kerry beaten out the gate on Saturday, I don’t know. Maybe the fact that neither Kerry nor Tyrone are at the very top of the tree anymore gives this game a different context and people will just be curious to see how it goes.

All I know is that come five o’clock on Saturday, I wouldn’t be anywhere else in the world.

Excellent Darragh. Very good sunmmary of Tyrone over the past ten years. Could have added about some of their great players also but honest assessment.

Honest enough piece there from one of the greats of the game, what's probably most insightful is how long it takes sometimes for the penny to drop regarding the other teams tactics.

You imagine these things are picked up on straight away but obviously not. Would a victory over this Tyrone side really heal the wounds of 03 05 & 08, I don't really think it would.

With the greater scoring threat posed by Kerry's forwards it has to be a Kerry win for me, that coupled with the fact they are at home that in itself is worth 2-3 points of an advantage. Word tonight is O'Neill has been passed fit to play so that's a positive from Tyrones perspective, how we cope with Gooch and that speed merchant O'Sullivan is another matter.

On a side issue I think the Tyrone Co Board and the GAA themselves have missed an opportunity here to help the fans. Surely with Tyrone fans facing a round trip of some 12 hours in a car surely the GAA could have organised coach transport and overnight accommodation at discounted prices for anyone interested. Would be a great gesture and one which would have been hugely popular.

bocerty wrote: how we cope with...that speed merchant O'Sullivan is another

Hard to see how he could be fit, Boc. He missed out last Sunday because of a hamstring injury, came on for 20 minutes and had to go off again as it was tight, with the game still in the melting pot. O'Connor even admitted that the only reason he brought him on is because Kerry were going out of the championship.

I can't believe that 6 days will be enough for a hamstring to heal. Having said that, if he is 50/50, I think they have to start him and take a chance that it holds up. He is a key player, and better to start and see how it goes, that bring him on and have to take him off again 5 minutes later.

Heard he is getting this special treatment(some freezing crack) which gives him a 60/40 chance. Better not start him because if it goes early,sub wasted. I would have him on the bench and introduce later. Hope to head down Sunday morning and may stay in Killarney on Sat night. Win ,lose or draw there should be a good crack round Tatlers etc. that night.

A tricky encounter for both sides here. Tyrone are forced into somewhat of a re-jigging process through injuries and are blooding some new faces. They won't have learned much from their training spin in the Hyde. A work in progress at this moment.
Kerry are in the last chance saloon. Ageing backs, an uncertain midfield and a less than settled or fluent forward line. Granted they have 2/3 of the very best up there but no ball and no space can nullify these potent threats.

A tentative squeak to Kerry.....a small margin either way.

Sorry Saturday morning .

Boxtyeater wrote:A tricky encounter for both sides here. Tyrone are forced into somewhat of a re-jigging process through injuries and are blooding some new faces. They won't have learned much from their training spin in the Hyde. A work in progress at this moment.
Kerry are in the last chance saloon. Ageing backs, an uncertain midfield and a less than settled or fluent forward line. Granted they have 2/3 of the very best up there but no ball and no space can nullify these potent threats.

A tentative squeak to Kerry.....a small margin either way.

Box. Tyrone have better younger players coming in. I know we managed very well over the past 12 years without underage success but the well had to run dry at some stage. The loss of David Moran and Tommy Walsh,our two best who came through in recent years is showing. Tyrone are building for the future but Kerry,no matter what happens this year have a few years of problems ahead.Defence is lacking at least three (too many),midfield just adequate and probably the forwards ok but if no supply like an eunuch at an orgy.

Masterful display of poor-mouthedness RKF in fairness...

True though that you haven't unearthed a real cutting edge forward in a good few years and the miles are telling from midfield back.
There's no need overdo it though. I remember posting here this time 2/3 years ago about this ageing Kerry team and BOOM......

Tyrone will only believe they have beaten them in Killarney as the bus approaches Limerick just the same....

You're a gas man.

Box. Bottle of the rarest vintage Lyrecompane poteen on way to you if you are correct.

[quote="Real Kerry Fan"]Hope to head down Sunday morning and may stay in Killarney on Sat night./quote]

You pi55ed again RKF???

[quote="Parouisa"]

Real Kerry Fan wrote:Hope to head down Sunday morning and may stay in Killarney on Sat night./quote]

You pi55ed again RKF???

That is why it is called the backdoor.

Eoin "the bomber" Liston heard on Kerry radio using the words redemption and retribution like a great bearded GAA evangelist in his pre-match analysis of this weekends game, meanwhile Brolly is firmly back in the Tyrone camp labelling the Gooch as one of the biggest chokers of all time. It will be interesting to see how this develops as Mr Brolly is liable to be singing the praises of Mr Cooper in next weeks edition whilst putting the boot into his neighbours, much will depend on the position of the jet stream.

No word as yet on the Tyrone starting team but its looks as if Justin McMahon will definitely not make it at this stage.

Kerry team announced. Only one change Enright for Maguire. Not happy Donncha starting. Full back vulnerable'
.Hoped Crowley would start. Anyway in the lap of the Gods.

1 Pascal McConnell – An Baile Nua
2 Aidan McCrory – Aireagal Chiaráin
3 Conor Clarke – An Omaigh
4 Dermot Carlin – Coill an Chlochair
5 Cathal McCarron – An Droim Mór
6 Conor Gormley – An Charraig Mhór
7 Sean O’Neill – An Droim Mhór
8 Joe McMahon – An Omaigh
9 Colm Cavanagh – An Mhaigh
10 Mattie Donnelly – Trí Leac
11 Mark Donnelly – An Charraig Mhór
12 Peter Harte – Aireagal Chiaráin
13 Martin Penrose – An Charraig Mhór
14 Stephen O’Neill – Clann na nGael
15 Owen Mulligan – An Chorra Chríochach

16 John Devine – Aireagal Chiaráin
17 Aidan Cassidy – Eochar
18 David Harte – Aireagal Chiaráin
19 Damian McCaul – Domhnach Mór
20 Darren McCurry – Éadan na dTorc
21 Brian McGuigan – Árd Bó
22 Niall McKenna – Domhnach Mór
23 Ryan McMenamin – An Droim Mhór
24 Ronan McNabb – An Droim Mhór
25 Ronan McNamee – Achadh Uí Aráin
26 Michael Murphy – An Gallbhaile

Very interesting choice at no.25, a lad who broke his leg 6 months ago, and has never played a league or championship match before. What odds that turns into Justin McMahon....?

The rest is as expected.

what do tyrone supporters see in colm cavanagh?

patsymc wrote:what do tyrone supporters see in colm cavanagh?

Very willing. Decent fielder, covers a lot of ground, tireless worker, reasonable feet, and a knack of scoring goals from 1yd out. Limited, but not bad.

Thomas Clarke wrote:

patsymc wrote:what do tyrone supporters see in colm cavanagh?

Very willing. Decent fielder, covers a lot of ground, tireless worker, reasonable feet, and a knack of scoring goals from 1yd out. Limited, but not bad.

he doesnt look like a county player but mickey sees something in him, i just cant work out how he fits in to the tyrone team,is brother would be a better option.