Down v Monaghan

While this game may be flying somewhat under the radar on the 'weaker' half of the Ulster Championship draw, participants in the Football Tipster competition know the significance of this encounter. With 2 games to predict this weekend, and one of them looking like a foregone conclusion, anyone who predicts the winner of Down/ Monaghan successfully will get 2 points, for the win, and 5 for the bonus - the losers, to quote legendary Down captain DJ Kane, get nothing.

I've been holding back on sending through my best guess at this so far, hoping to glean a clue or 2 from the team line-ups, as well as to get a better handle on that usually decisive factor when Down are playing - the weather.

James McCartan's team selections are usually as reliable as the weather forecasts, and his offering this week sees Benny Coulter & Dan Gordon on the bench. Down could do with Coulter's strength in an otherwise small full forward line, but the absence of Gordon continues to be, in my opinion, a blessing in disguise. Monaghan have included Jap Finlay and Darren Hughes, but Tommy Freeman has not been named. Freeman turned the game against Antrim 3 weeks ago, although Eamonn McEneaney said last week that he was injured and wouldn't play in this game. I'd suspect that is untrue, and would not be surprised to see Freeman start, or at least make an early appearance.

I strongly believe that the Monaghan side of 2 years ago would have won this game, but they have regressed badly since then. The nastiness that Banty instilled in the side is still there, but the quality and legs are not. Form and speed would point to a Down win in this game, but I can't help but remember that Dick Clerkin, in his excellent interview on this very site, felt that thihs was possibly Monaghan's best ever chance of winning an Ulster title. Perhaps they have been aiming towards this match all year, and maybe there is one big performance in them.

Anyway, a very tough one to call. Despite their small forwards and poor performances in their last 2 games, I'll probably edge towards Down's greater pace and ball skills, but a Monaghan upset wouldn't surprise me in the least.

tc again not a lot to disagree with. i feel that down should win just about maybe 2-4 points not because they are any better than monaghan but because since 2010 when both teams had their high water mark seasons downs regression has been to a lesser extent than monaghans.

i reckon 1-11 to 0-12 could be a reasonable marker for the final scoreline.

Great post TC. I'm finding this one very hard to call but am somehow being drawn to Monaghan and have been since these 2 were paired up. Both sides will fancy their chances of getting to the Ulster final but in the grand scheme of things, that is all it will give them as this is, as you pointed out, the weaker side of the draw.

No shock results in the USFC this year as yet, closest thing to a shock we got was how easily Derry were beaten last weekend. My selection all along has been a Monaghan/Tyrone final with Tyrone winning through.

Mercifully, from a Down perspective, it isn't raining in Armagh. God knows what they'd be like if it was.
They are lacking spirit, leadership and fundamentally, any form of ability. Aimless running, mis-directed fist passes, inability to rise the ball and look, at this stage to be out of juice.

Monaghan, on the other hand, have brought their c'ship mentality to this one. Finlay and McManus on top of their men and "Friend of the Forum" Dick Clerkin showed that there's more to him than witty ripostes by chipping a fine point.

Michael Duffy is not having his finest day. McManus is the master of the over-carry and about 5 clear fouls have gone un-punished thus far.

Monaghan have collapsed and Down have increased the intensity. Think it is game over Monaghan and they are missing everything, including their ability to play football.

Mid Mon Man will be seething that Monaghan lost that game. Positively seething!

mossbags wrote:Mid Mon Man will be seething that Monaghan lost that game. Positively seething!

I'd safely the whole of Monaghan feel exactly the same, that was the Devon Loch of Gaelic Football if ever i seen one!!!!!

What a display in the 2nd half by Down! I love to see a team getting back into a game when all seems lost, and it's great to see Down showing that steel. Once again they are proving their critics wrong, even after losing their finest playmaker since Greg Blaney when Marty Clarke departed the scene....not to mention Caolan Mooney and Peter Fitzpatrick.

Monaghan had learned lessons from the blitzing they got from Down in the McKenna Cup and hit the ground at a sprint. Down were simply blown away in the opening stages. However, I had to question whether Monaghan had the ability to maintain such a work rate the entire game (I thought about how we tore through Tyrone in 2010 but ran out of steam). If Down could just chip the deficit a little before half time I felt they would have the energy to take the game into their own hands. The Down penalty was crucial, getting them back into the game just when Monaghan probably thought they could close out the second half at a canter.

The second half display was an almighty effort from Down. I had to remark at how controlled and panic-free they remained. 3 years ago it would have been a matter of thumping the ball up to Benny and hoping for the best. There was a clear strategy and it was executed perfectly.

Monaghan are not a great side, and against better opposition a nine point deficit could not have been overcome. But if Down can play in the Ulster final like they did in the second half today, they will take some beating. They simply cannot afford such a poor start in an Ulster final though.

Once again, James McCartan showing he is the right man for the job. He has brought a fire back into that team that was never there before...he has overseen a vast improvement in performance from players who were once anonymous (Conor Laverty springs to mind).

We may only have beaten Fermanagh and Monaghan (with all respect, and to be fair Monaghan were as fired up in that first half as I've ever seen them) but I'm glad Down won in the manner they did. Had we beaten Monaghan comfortably we would have learned very little...but to come back from a nine point deficit will give the lads a timely boost, and help to instill that never-say-die attitude that has been sorely lacking in the past. A solid performance in the Ulster final and we will be hard to beat.

If this is 'regression'...long may it continue!

I was disappointed to see Monaghan calve in the 2nd half. I though there was far too much feigning of injury (holding your nose and checking for blood when your face didn't even get touched) and dirty play (Down #7 stamping on a Monaghan mans head while he lay on the ground) from Down today.
Saying that, I thought the ref was quite biased towards Monaghan and Down played some great stuff to get back into the game. Towards the end, very few Monaghan men seemed to want to know anything about it.

RMDrive wrote:I was disappointed to see Monaghan calve in the 2nd half. I though there was far too much feigning of injury (holding your nose and checking for blood when your face didn't even get touched) and dirty play (Down #7 stamping on a Monaghan mans head while he lay on the ground) from Down today.
Saying that, I thought the ref was quite biased towards Monaghan and Down played some great stuff to get back into the game. Towards the end, very few Monaghan men seemed to want to know anything about it.

Easy to get emotional about a ref when you have an interest in the result, but watching this as a 100pc neutral its rare that one comes to a conclusion other than a ref had a bad game. But today have to agree. If down had lost this today they would have genuine grounds to have issue with duff,s performance today.

To be fair...I would have been angry had we lost. The Monaghan goal was a disgrace...how a referee can play advantage after calling a player over to book him is a head-scratcher.

However, Down can have few complaints due to the disgraceful behaviour of Conor Garvey. That is twice now that we have witnessed Down players in serious off-the-ball incidents in this year's Championship. I hope it is not a trend that will continue because, biased as I am obviously, I think Down tend to stay away from that kind of behaviour. Wee James should make sure the players know that, while it is good to see Down showing a bit of steel and willingness to get dirty, punching and especially stamping are just plain scummy.

To be fair I still can't see Down winning Ulster after todays performance. They showed some character to come back granted, but the likes of Donegal and Tyrone would not implode like Monaghan did.

They're only a game away GF. And it's hard to say with any confidence that Monaghan simply 'imploded'. Even when Down were bossing the second half, Monaghan still got a goal to put themselves ahead. Down battled back again to win the game. Granted that better teams may not have let us back into the game, not too many teams could have got back into the game.

Down have already beaten Donegal this year in the league. Donegal have been impressive but to be fair Cavan aren't miles better than Fermanagh, and I would still probably say after today that Monaghan are a better outfit than an ultimately spineless Derry setup.

As for Tyrone, we haven't played them in Championship since 2010. For 15-20 minutes we tore their defence to shreds before they took control of the game, yet still only won by 4 points after a complete surrender by Down. A lot has changed in the Down camp since then.....Down are a lot fitter than they were, a lot less reliant on Coulter, and are much more tactically aware. I would like to get a crack at Tyrone personally, just to measure ourselves up beside them.

So, in a nutshell:

Down upped their game.
Monaghan calved.
Duffy was very poor.

Boxtyeater wrote:So, in a nutshell:

Down upped their game.
Monaghan calved.
Duffy was very poor.

Jap got good point

Have you ever considered a career in sports journalism Boxty? Your succinct style is a breath of fresh air in a world of long winded verbose.

bluearmy1 wrote:Have you ever considered a career in sports journalism Boxty? Your succinct style is a breath of fresh air in a world of long winded verbose.

I'm humbled..

I'm glad to note however, that James McCartan took the opportunity to show his charges the caustic summarisation I posted here at half time of their performance in the opening 35 mins.
You can tell him that I'm prepared to continue with this service going forward, but not on the "Free to View" service like today.

I envisage you as a tough but fair negotiator. Shall we say 25% for your "Introductory Services"..... A man's gotta eat...

Conor Laverty was awesome - truly. Very sorry to see Dick C blow the last play but he had the balls to go for it. Once the sun came out I knew Down would come back ....

Great game. Nothing wrong with football when it is played with that attitude. Down deserved to win dspite the best efforts of ref. Lavery, as good as a display I have seen for a while.With Benny fully fit also Down should give Tyrone a game in the final.

No need for discussion and post mortems boxty did it all in 14 words. Down in letrim they must charge by the syllable .

For a change, work is busy today, so please excuse the bullet points outlining my thoughts:

• Down are capable of being more horrendously bad than even I had believed, yet they also possess more grit than I thought they had.
  
• Monaghan will take a long time to get over that defeat. They desperately need a kind draw in the qualifiers, or they may well go 2 and out for the 2nd successive year.
  
• Down's fightback from 9 points, and then a further goal after drawing level, was a carbon copy of Tyrone's recovery 2003 Ulster Final (against Down themselves). Tyrone players spoke later about the huge belieft that such a fightback gave them, and the Down players will no doubt benefit similarly
  
• Still, Down fans mustn't get carried away with their victory. Monaghan have won only 4 of their 18 league and championship matches under Eamon McEneaney, are far removed from the team of a few years ago.
  
• If Tommy Freeman had started, Monaghan may have reduced their 8 wides and been further ahead at half time. I don't see how it makes sense for any side to hold back their best forward as a 'super-sub'.
  
• Down have major problems in defence. Kevin McKernan is frequently out of position at CHB, while Conor Garvey was destroyed by Conor McManus. Daniel McCartan was almost as bad. A returning Dan Gordon is not the answer here.
  
• Conor Laverty was extremely good, and more than anyone saved the game for Down. His tenacious run for the penalty was, literally, the saving of the game for his side.
  
• Aidan Carr hasn't had much of a run under James McCartan, but he really delivered yesterday in the 2nd half. His late free showed real bottle, and he wasn't even put off by the idiotic announcement during his run up asking stewards to take up the end of match positions.
  
• The Down team that finished the match was better than the one that started. Benny Coulter will obviously start in the final, and his strength is badly needed in the FF line. A place should also be found for Liam Doyle's strength (I'd play him at centre back).
  

Parouisa wrote:Conor Laverty was awesome - truly. Very sorry to see Dick C blow the last play but he had the balls to go for it. Once the sun came out I knew Down would come back ....

Dick had two opportunities in the second half, the first was a left foot effort, Tommy Freeman was standing behind him so he might have been better off offloading to Tommy, was surprised he didn't try to work that last chance in a bit closer and pick out either Freeman or McManus.

Down still not a great team for me and they may prefer to meet Tyrone as I think Donegal will 'ate' them in the final!!!!

I too was reminded of the 2003 Ulster final. That was a very poor Down team - immature and complacent, yet could well have ended Tyrone's march to the All-Ireland that year (Greg McCartan's sending off will forever haunt me). While Tyrone fans certainly couldn't get carried away about that game....it was certainly a show of intent, and a huge boost for them. They obliterated Down in the replay. And to be honest, I genuinely feel that if we had to have a replay with Monaghan we would beat them much much easier. Monaghan simply did not have the legs at the back to contend with a show of firepower from the Down forwards, and up front they could simply not maintain the momentum they had built in the first half.

To be honest I'm not sure what can be taken from the game for our back lines. A nine point turnaround, and then a 4 point turnaround at the most critical stage of the game does not just require excellent forward play, but also excellent defence. Dan McCartan was completely roasted yesterday but was replaced by a resurgent Kevin Duffin who did a decent job. Darren O'Hagan was fantastic, balancing his defensive duties with a keen eye for a run forward, culminating in his crucial and cleverly taken point at the death. Brendan McArdle was my alternative MOTM (Laverty simply cannot be overlooked for that accolade) with a commanding display in the second half, made some crucial interceptions and an awe inspiring catch near the end. He was extremely unlucky to be 'distracted' by the ref for Monaghan's goal.

In a game of two halves, the second is the one where the better team shines. Down tore Monaghan asunder in the second half, and that is the crucial point. You can say Monaghan simply calved, but a team can only calve when they are made to calve.

TC is also right to point out that the second half line-up will most likely resemble the line-up for the final. I would prefer to face Tyrone simply because I have much more respect for them as a team (no offence to Donegal folk). They are still a marker for success and their football is of a much better standard than a Donegal side ultimately bereft of any real natural skill, with the exception of two or three players. Donegal would probably be a tougher prospect though in the final with their ability to negate attractive football. Although two things will stand to Down against Donegal; we have already beaten them this season, but we would still be the underdogs.

I'm sure an Ulster final thread will be opened soon and we can discuss it when we see who exactly Down will face.

** I don't quite know why, but Benny's point from his first touch of the ball against Monaghan was among my favourites of his many scores. There is a slightly different, more spirited roar from the Down crowd when Coulter bags one. He has been undergoing a 24/7 programme to regain match fitness; his desire to play and his will to win are an inspiration to all. As has been said many times about this sublime footballer, he is simply a class act.

**Not forgetting Liam Doyle whose legendary father was fit to tell me one day in the barbers, while talking about his son's heartache about missing out on the 2010 All-Ireland final run, that Liam was done and would never play in the red and black again.

Good to have 'The Doyle' back!

Can't recall when I last saw a team storm out of the blocks like Monaghan did - McManus was superb - and then just simply die. Very strange game indeed. Even with the penalty the Farney should have been able to keep Down at bay - and then they got some 'assistance' from the ref - but still couldn't close the deal.

Down did well in the 2nd half but Monaghan were pi55 poor in all fairness. Entertaining and all that it was, I don't think the Corks or Kerrys would lose any sleep over the quality witnessed in MAG on Sunday.