Re: Euro 2012 Thread

[The Puke]

I agree to a point that international football seems less important to a lot of players now - not so much ours or even Norn Irons. But look at the Scots, Welsh results in recent years. The days of Hansen, Dalglish, Souness, Rush, Andy Gray getting a chance to prove themselves in the Premiership are gone. It is nearly impossible for the top English talent to come through - sad and bad days.

Kerr knew the players inside out and had a system that wasn't a million miles from Trap's - and he was much cheaper. And lets face it the 'system' was torn apart last Friday and ought to have been before only for a wing and a prayer.

He did but was lacking the man management for the job....Ended up fizzling out under him, there seemed to be a bit of peralysis with analysis when Kerr over them as well which the players didn't take to....Would love top see Kerr involved again though, be it at 19's or 21's level or head of performance/improvement

[clash-of-da-ash]

Go to 3:10 and you can see Robbie gets caught by Zhirkov, not intentionally but still a penalty.

[Grenvile]

Get in St. Ledger!!! Playing well lads...

[Guest]

Ho Lee Fook

Ireland has made 5 passes on the trot!




Fahy is a welcome addition too.

[Grenvile]

Playing well and could be two goals to the good if Robbie wasn't having a shocker.. Still though Ireland could definitely get a win here, even if they could equally make a mess of something and leave with nothing.. Fahy and Long great additions. Green's injury not a huge loss, you could see how afraid he was..

[SamiPremier08]

1-1 away to Slovakia is not too bad, get some homes wins under the belt and maybe force a point away to Russia and the lads could just nick it.

As for England...

[Boxtyeater]

1-1 away to Slovakia is not too bad, get some homes wins under the belt and maybe force a point away to Russia and the lads could just nick it.

...1-1 according to the news..Money saved going forward, as we won't be seeing Poland in 2012 unless its to visit Gregor or Mikel or that lad who painted your house for €200 back in 2006.....Jesus wept..

[Jayo Cluxton]

Two very poor teams in a very poor game. Yet Gilesy and Co are miffed we didn't win when Slovakia lorded the midfield and possession for the whole second half - albeit without creating too many good chances. WTF are they watching. For the record Kilbane was adequate, Whelan lost his man at the set piece for 1-1. Our throw ins are truly shocking. And the last word for Robbie ..change club lad - soon! Seeing Kevin Doyle constantly hauled ashore while the skipper does the 90 has been a bone of contention for me for some time. Tonight young Shane Long came in and did the shift. Robbie is a lazy so and so. And he missed a peno and two gilt edged chances.

If we draw in Macedonia and win our homes against them, Armenia and Slovakia we will get 2nd. Topping the group is out of the question.

[The Puke]

Wouldn't label Robbie lazy, if anything he is far from it and it is a myth...Even though he has moved clubs a good few times I have never once heard any one of his managers or former teammates question his work rate or attitude....He is a hard worker and always puts in a decent enough shift effort-wise, but I suppose when lads see him moaning or waving his arms about they see this as laziness.....He looked like a player that really lacked confidence tonight, he actually showed some nice touches and link play but in front of goal he was poor alright.....Long put in a decent shift but he had zero goal threat tonight, he ran the channels well and kept the centre halves on their toes but like Doyle he does a lot of good work but doesn't get in the box or into goalscoring opportunities enough.....Would have good time for Robbie and feel he gets a lot of flak, some of it justified but a lot of it is wide of the mark...But he does badly need a move alright

Tonight showed again how far off a decent footballer Gibson is and those who were clammering for his inclusion only need to look at tonight and Cyprus at home in the lasy qualifying campaign to see his limitations....Mcgeady probably had his best game in an ireland shirt while Fahey had decent first 45 minutes....Thought we looked very heavy legged in the last 20 minutes, probably down to the fact that a lot of lads were struggling for match fitness

[Grenvile]

Two very poor teams in a very poor game. Yet Gilesy and Co are miffed we didn't win when Slovakia lorded the midfield and possession for the whole second half - albeit without creating too many good chances. WTF are they watching. For the record Kilbane was adequate, Whelan lost his man at the set piece for 1-1. Our throw ins are truly shocking. And the last word for Robbie ..change club lad - soon! Seeing Kevin Doyle constantly hauled ashore while the skipper does the 90 has been a bone of contention for me for some time. Tonight young Shane Long came in and did the shift. Robbie is a lazy so and so. And he missed a peno and two gilt edged chances.

If we draw in Macedonia and win our homes against them, Armenia and Slovakia we will get 2nd. Topping the group is out of the question.

WTF were you watching!? Slovakia may have lorded possession but they created nothing. Took one save out of Given.. Ireland missed a penalty and if Keane had match practice he would have buried both those chances.. We should have won that game. Gibson was dire. The sooner Andrews gets back the better.

[Jayo Cluxton]

Fahy was taken off Puke??!?!

So JS how TF are we supposed to beat teams when they have the ball in our half for most of 45 minutes - were you watching??

Puke - I am trying not to be begative about Ireland (or Robbie) since I got chided here. But he was crap and I think has become very lazy in a green shirt. Maybe if he shared half the work then Long or Doyle might be on the end of something the odd time ..... and they might be more likely to put it away too. And sorry but he has become a figure of fun for his arm waving and diving. He wasn't seen in the second half until the last five mins (bar his bad miss) and then when covering back he dived/fell over ........

[The Puke]

Fahy was taken off Puke??!?!

So JS how TF are we supposed to beat teams when they have the ball in our half for most of 45 minutes - were you watching??

Puke - I am trying not to be begative about Ireland (or Robbie) since I got chided here. But he was crap and I think has become very lazy in a green shirt. Maybe if he shared half the work then Long or Doyle might be on the end of something the odd time ..... and they might be more likely to put it away too. And sorry but he has become a figure of fun for his arm waving and diving. He wasn't seen in the second half until the last five mins (bar his bad miss) and then when covering back he dived/fell over ........

Just because he wasn't on the ball too much in the second half doesn't mean he was hiding, due to the fact that we struggled to retain the ball second half he was always goiung ton struggle to be in the game....When we did have it we looked to play McGeady into space or down the channels......He wasn't the only lad that was quiet second half....I certainly don't think he is lazy or looks for others to do his workload, if anything he tries too hard and ends up out of position or too deep, he is a far better player when playing on the shoulder of the last defender but due to our inabilty to retain the ball for the most part Doyle normally gets the job to lead the line as he is stronger in the air....Don't know what you are on about sharing half the work with his strike partner, don't think there is a case of this but again it is a common misconception because Doylemight hold up the ball more or win more flick ons that Robbie then he is doing far more work......Lads won't appreciate the full worth of what Robbie bring to the team til he is gone.....

[patrique]

I had Montenegro at 14/1 and Faroe Islands at 8/1.

Is there a God?

[Jayo Cluxton]

Puke - posted a detailed reply but lost it to the vagaries of the ****ing stupid wireless system. Will come back to you on this - too tired now. Zzzzz.

[Grenvile]

What happened in the NI game Pat? Should the Faroes have taken it?

The Puke hit the nail on the head there. We will be crying out for Robbie Keane when he is gone and we can't buy a goal. Doyle, Long and co are all game lads, but Keane is a goal poacher the likes of which are not easily replaced.. He thrives on game time and if he switches in the transfer window to a team where he can nail down a position then Ireland's qualification chances will get a huge boost.

[Jayo Cluxton]

No sentiment in gambling JS!! That is a top price. Also looking at the 4/1 on offer for Brian Kerrs fishermen, bankers, teachers, butchers, bakers and candlestick makers to frustrate Norn Iron with a draw ....

Hope ye got on Jayo's 4/1 banker here.

[patrique]

What happened in the NI game Pat? Should the Faroes have taken it?

The Puke hit the nail on the head there. We will be crying out for Robbie Keane when he is gone and we can't buy a goal. Doyle, Long and co are all game lads, but Keane is a goal poacher the likes of which are not easily replaced.. He thrives on game time and if he switches in the transfer window to a team where he can nail down a position then Ireland's qualification chances will get a huge boost.

The Faroes would be better technically than us, a lot more skilful, out lads would be fitter and more "forceful" (dirty)


Robbie Keane like many modern players began to believe the press about how good he was and thought he was George Best or someone. Along came that magnificent Tottenham manager, Martin Jol, who dropped him for being big headed and lazy, and brought him back as captain and turned him into a useful player.

And he has an excellent record and is way above anything else available.

PS: Whatever happened to Jol, Tottenham went backwards after he left?

[Boxtyeater]

And he has an excellent record and is way above anything else available.
PS: Whatever happened to Jol, Tottenham went backwards after he left?

You mean he's got "Roxy Music's Greatest Hits"...good call sir, I've gotten it myself....

[patrique]

And he has an excellent record and is way above anything else available.
PS: Whatever happened to Jol, Tottenham went backwards after he left?

You mean he's got "Roxy Music's Greatest Hits"...good call sir, I've gotten it myself....

Roxy what? Years ago they had dance halls called "The Roxy".

[Boxtyeater]

Here's an excerpt for you Paddy...

[Jayo Cluxton]

Sorry but Robbie Keane needs a bit of a kick in the hole. I would not question his commitment to the cause or his record but lately he has been poor. To me he now lets Doyle (and Long on Tuesday) do all the donkey work. He has been largely ineffective for a long time now and his lack of first team football is exacerbating the problem. Its not about what Robbie has done for his country but what he is doing now - and it ain't much I'm afraid.

[patrique]

Here's an excerpt for you Paddy...

I once heard Brian Ferry singing a verson of "Carrickfergus".

Until now that was all I had heard.

But then I am the man who saw a poster for an "Eagles" tribute band and asked "who were the eagles"

[The Puke]

We used the long ball even more against Slovakia

Lambasted for his approach to the Russian game, Giovanni Trapattoni pressed the same buttons in Zilina despite the critics' belief he had veered away from it, writes Ciaran Cronin

Isn't it amazing what a positive result – relatively speaking of course – can disguise? As Ireland's players walked off the pitch following Tuesday's game in Zilina, the consensus being formed by pundits and supporters alike was that while it was disappointing that Ireland had not earned all three points against Slovakia, hell, they'd played much better than they did against Russia the previous Friday. The RTÉ panel, who set the agenda on such matters, kept referring to a mythical glass as they discussed the ins and outs of what they had just witnessed and, eventually, conceded that it was half-full rather than half-empty. While all was not quite healed, Irish football was sitting up in bed and nibbling on solids once more.




In football, it's clear, the result distorts everything. In the days after the Russia game, the ire of most observers became focused on the number of long balls that Shay Given, or one of Ireland's back four, pumped up towards Kevin Doyle. The tactic, virtually overnight, became the symbol of all the ills of Giovanni Trapattoni's side. Some viewed it as the kind of atavistic behaviour a sophisticated country like Ireland no longer needed to stoop to. It was beneath us. Others considered it a cancer that needed eradication. A few more days, you figured, and the long ball might have been fingered for the recession, too. The reaction was, when you stop to think about it, remarkable from a country whose best footballing moments all came on the back of lumping the ball towards a beanpole striker.




It may shock many Irish fans, then, to discover that Ireland actually played one more long ball on Tuesday against Slovakia than they did in the 90 minutes against Russia. Given the contrasting reactions to both games, it is a remarkable statistic. Ireland pumped the ball from their own half towards Shane Long or Robbie Keane on 16 separate occasions in the first half in Zilina, in contrast to the eight long balls Ireland played in the opening 45 minutes at the Aviva Stadium on Friday. In the second half against Slovakia, with Ireland having a little less possession to work with, they pumped the ball forward 11 times; against Russia, that figure was 18 on account of that frenzied final quarter. Overall, however, the respective 90 minutes put side-by-side, the long ball was used more often in Slovakia.




Why did it not seem so? Well, for starters, Ireland were much better at earning possession, either from the initial punt or second ball, against Slovakia. They were also far more effective at doing pretty things with the ball in the final 40 yards of the pitch than they had been against Russia. And don't forget, of course, the Jesus Christ-like healing powers of a positive result. Trapattoni has spoken often in the past about how, in the days after a game of football, we recall the performance but a few months later, as much water has flowed under the bridge, all anybody ever remembers is the scoreline. The Italian is bang on the money. Despite the hoopla after the Russia game, the truth is nobody really cares about how this Irish side goes about its business so long as the result is right.




Ireland's style of play is a non-issue. Against Russia, if we all put our prejudices against the long ball to one side, the punt forward was an extremely effective tactic. It led directly to Ireland's two goals and might, on another night, have led to a couple more. In an offensive sense, Trapattoni will not have been upset at what he saw, which is precisely why the bulk of the criticisms levelled at the manager after that match were completely off the mark. The pertinent question to the Italian following the Russian game was not whether he allows his players to pass the ball along the ground, or why he wants them to get the ball forward as quickly as possible. It was why, with his side struggling so badly on the back foot, did he not take any proactive step to change Ireland's defensive system from the dugout?




Really, the issue against Russia was Trapattoni. The two basic things you ask of your manager at a professional level are to prepare the team properly and react swiftly to events on the pitch. Against Dick Advocaat's side, Trapattoni managed neither. The Italian didn't seem to realise from his pre-match research that Russia might seek to outnumber Ireland in central midfield and pour numbers forward when the opportunity arose. He didn't seem able to counteract the tactic either, as he watched the game develop from the dugout.




Could it possibly be that we're seeing the first signs of decline in a great manager? The 71-year-old doesn't, as we well know, actually attend that many games anymore. Instead, we're assured, he spends a fair portion of his week analysing future opponents on DVD, as well as watching live football from across Europe via his satellite dish. In truth, we have no reason to disbelieve that Trapattoni isn't doing his homework but the point is that no other international manager in Europe, never mind one earning €1.8m a year, gets away with putting in so little time watching his players in the flesh. The Italian has got away with working from home, so to speak, over the past 20 months or so because results have largely gone Ireland's way. But because of his inaction against Russia, and the way he read the entire game incorrectly in the first place, questions have to be asked about whether a man now more used to the remote control than live action has had his managerial instincts dulled as a result.




How true that may be, we will only see over time but his PR instincts remain sharp. Trapattoni, you suspect, has no intention of dramatically changing the way his side operates during the rest of the campaign. That didn't stop him though, in a scheduled debriefing with journalists on Wednesday, trotting out the names of players who might play in the November friendly against Norway and the Nations Cup game against Wales in February. "We can try new players with others in the solid group," he suggested in the manner of a man making a very deliberate attempt to keep his audience happy. "We can change John O'Shea with Paul McShane, for example, so we will look at this situation. We can also look at the offensive situation. We need to help our strikers score. Keith Fahey played well in the past two games, he can do that kind of a job for us. When we're compact, we need to have someone who can go for goal. [James] McCarthy also has that the ability to set people up and score a goal. Maybe it's an opportunity to see [Darron] Gibson in the team, with responsibility. At Manchester United all the team is strong, we need to see him show his personality. [Marc] Wilson has impressed us, [Shane] Coleman the same."




That's not to say that Trapattoni's words are completely disingenuous. He will be keen to have one or two more players genuinely competing for starting places by the time Ireland's next qualifier against Macedonia in March comes about. During the 2010 World Cup qualifying campaign, to offer up some precedent, the Italian introduced Keith Andrews, Sean St Ledger, Liam Lawrence and Caleb Folan to the squad as the months rolled by, and eventually the starting line-up, in a very considered manner. At the moment, Fahey is first in line to make such a leap but the two upcoming friendlies allow room for one or two others – a full-back or central midfielder in particular – to make themselves viable alternatives.




But do not confuse a small change in personnel, or even formation, with a change in the way Ireland will play in their final six qualifiers. Trapattoni setting his team out in a 4-5-1, 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 structure – whichever one you fancy yourself – will not mean that Ireland get the ball from back to front any slower in games. That is the way Trapattoni wants his Ireland team to attack. And as we've seen from the fallout from Tuesday's game, it's something he'll always be forgiven for so long as the result is right.




ccronin@tribune.ie


October 17, 2010

[The Puke]

Couldn't be arsed setting up a thread for friendlies...Ireland take on Norway tonight missing some key players, big chance for the likes of Fahey, Coleman, Cunningham, Long etc to really lay down a marker....reckon that norway may well shade it as we won't have much of a goal threat with Doyle and Long up front, 9/4 is a decent price about them....

The bigots take on Morrocco tonoght as well annd would expect them to get a win in fortress windsor

[Jayo Cluxton]

9/4 is a cracking price alright. €40 would more or less pay for my ticket to see the All Blacks on Saturday .....

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