Re: Dublin v Wexford

**JimWexford** Mon Jun 14, 2010 6:17 pm

Jayo Cluxton wrote:Another funny one yesterday was in the first period of extra time and Mattie took a line ball from the Cusack side. He encroached the pitch and the linesman raised his flag immediately. The ball went in around the square but was cleared - with the linesman still trying to get the ref's attention. Dublin went down and got a point and I was watching the linesman-ref interaction closely and as he was running back out the ref was talking to the linesman and obviously told him to let it go - but he shouldn't have technically.

so your saying we can get the game replayed (possibly overturned if we go to a power higher than the CCCC- Galvin) due to this fragrant breech of the rules.
But what's that I hear you say only the big boys get the "breaks"

**Jayo Cluxton** Mon Jun 14, 2010 6:22 pm

JimWexford wrote:so your saying we can get the game replayed (possibly overturned if we go to a power higher than the CCCC- Galvin) due to this fragrant breech of the rules.
But what's that I hear you say only the big boys get the "breaks"

You're the ref Jim!! I watched it unfold under me and was roaring at the ref when the ball was dangerously bouncing near the Dublin goal ... as we got possession my roaring abated a little .... as we broke forward it reduced to a whisper ... and when we scored I roared again - for different reasons! It definitely happened (score after the 2nd Brogan goal I'm fairly sure) and I am sure it is not a situation where 'advantage' is allowed as the correct restart is a throw ball. Am I right in that J?

**mossbags** Mon Jun 14, 2010 6:30 pm

I would say TC is 100% spot on with that post. I note a lot of Dublin fans yearning for the good old days with Pillar now, when he was in the hot seat it was not always so

**Jayo Cluxton** Mon Jun 14, 2010 6:35 pm

mossbags wrote:I would say TC is 100% spot on with that post. I note a lot of Dublin fans yearning for the good old days with Pillar now, when he was in the hot seat it was not always so

I haven't read one post yearning for Pillar? Dublin v Wexford - Page 3 Icon_scratch

I am all for giving Gilroy a good go at it but I don't think we have the players to play the system he wants to - nor do I like it.

**mullins** Mon Jun 14, 2010 7:08 pm

Jayo Cluxton wrote:I agree there mullins - it was the worst 50 minutes I have seen from a Dublin team and that includes the last two QFs. Clueless, no heart, appaling football - I could go on. I am sick of this 'systems' talk. Football is an easy game - its 15 v 15. Play 6 forwards and 6 defenders - mark man to man. If your opposition pulls a man back then go with him and have 7 forwards - simple really.

Jc i totally agree with you 100%.....We have our own type of football in Dublin and i wouldn't swap it for what i seen yesterday in the first 50 mins...

**bocerty** Mon Jun 14, 2010 7:10 pm

Jayo Cluxton wrote: I am sick of this 'systems' talk. Football is an easy game - its 15 v 15. Play 6 forwards and 6 defenders - mark man to man. If your opposition pulls a man back then go with him and have 7 forwards - simple really.

best post of this forum - it is a simple game complicated by a bunch of men called managers/trainers/coaches who in my opinion dont really know what they are at (all bar one or two). They set up systems were they dont really have the players to carry out these systems - the truth is they'd probably make more headway if they just kept it as a 15v15 match.

Biggest problem is it filters its way down to even u8 and u10 football and really f**ks the whole thing up"

**mossbags** Mon Jun 14, 2010 7:20 pm

bocerty wrote:
Jayo Cluxton wrote: I am sick of this 'systems' talk. Football is an easy game - its 15 v 15. Play 6 forwards and 6 defenders - mark man to man. If your opposition pulls a man back then go with him and have 7 forwards - simple really.

best post of this forum - it is a simple game complicated by a bunch of men called managers/trainers/coaches who in my opinion dont really know what they are at (all bar one or two). They set up systems were they dont really have the players to carry out these systems - the truth is they'd probably make more headway if they just kept it as a 15v15 match.

Biggest problem is it filters its way down to even u8 and u10 football and really f**ks the whole thing up"

Micky Harte started it

**Thomas Clarke** Mon Jun 14, 2010 8:37 pm

mossbags wrote:
Micky Harte started it

It was started before Mickey Harte was even born Moss. Football has always been about tactics and making the best use of the resources available. It is just that nowadays, with the enormous coverage games get, it is talked about more.

**bocerty** Mon Jun 14, 2010 8:39 pm

mossbags wrote:
bocerty wrote:
Jayo Cluxton wrote: I am sick of this 'systems' talk. Football is an easy game - its 15 v 15. Play 6 forwards and 6 defenders - mark man to man. If your opposition pulls a man back then go with him and have 7 forwards - simple really.

best post of this forum - it is a simple game complicated by a bunch of men called managers/trainers/coaches who in my opinion dont really know what they are at (all bar one or two). They set up systems were they dont really have the players to carry out these systems - the truth is they'd probably make more headway if they just kept it as a 15v15 match.

Biggest problem is it filters its way down to even u8 and u10 football and really f**ks the whole thing up"

Micky Harte started it

incorrect my dear friend - he just took it to a whole new level and done it better than anyone else!!!!

**Jayo Cluxton** Mon Jun 14, 2010 10:16 pm

As I have said before here Mr Harte's 2008 were not defensive. They were hugely interchangeable - half forwards regularly scoring, even full backs getting in on the act - and forwards defending when needed, with guys slipping into positions to cover colleagues. Simple, effective and intelligent. It was not defensive by any means. He took the Armagh model and improvised it by applying it 2-15 instead of just in defence. Extremely clever.

**mossbags** Mon Jun 14, 2010 10:20 pm

bocerty wrote:
my dear friend

**bocerty** Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:18 pm

mossbags wrote:
bocerty wrote:
my dear friend

ok maybe not!!!!!

**mullins** Tue Jun 15, 2010 8:45 am

Thomas Clarke wrote:I do feel a bit sorry for Gilroy in a way, as he has taken on a poisoned chalice. The reality is that Dublin probably don't have the players to win an all-ireland, yet that is what he is expected to deliver.

Pillar Caffrey was much derided, and he did make mistakes, but it is doubtful if those mistakes were sufficiently great and sufficiently numerous to cost Dublin an all-ireland during his time there. The truth is probably that he got as much as could be realistically expected out of a fairly good side, who had the misfortune to come on the scene in an era with 2 outstanding sides.

So, what can Gilroy do? Last year he tried to continue to play like they did before, perhaps with even less structure than Pillar did. He won a 5th Leinster title, but suffered at the hands of Kerry, just as Caffrey had at the hands of Tyrone.

This year, to try and deliver an all-ireland within his 3 year term, he has changed things, playing a totally different style of play. It was endured during the league when things were going well (not by yourself Mullins, admittedly, but JC, among others, was an advocate), but now, at the first slip up, it been rejected en masse by the Dublin support.

Now the supporters want a return to the old, swashbuckling style, which brought them 5 Leinsters, but no all-ireland appearances. The fans want a return to that style of play, but will soon demand an all-ireland to accompany it. The trouble for Gilroy is that he can easily deliver the style, but not Sam.

Personally, I think that Gilroy has made a mistake. He has changed systems with the right intentions, but has not considered the players available to him. Dublin don't, at the minute, have the right players to play with a sweeper and isolated forwards. If they did, they'd be right to play that way, but they don't. To me, it looks like change for the sake of change, rather than a well-thought out strategy. For all their faults, I preferred the old Dubs.

Poisoned chalice well in pillars time i never heard any Dublin fans calling for his head....Giller got it wrong from the start dropping whelan and ryan showing them no respect was madness....As for the defeats in 08-09 not a good enough reason to change the way Dublin play football...the only thing he had to do is get players for the back line which in fairness to him he has done the full back line was solid on sunday only 2 points scored off them everyone said that was our weakness..

The Dublin players don't want to play gillers new system and i think most people could see that on sunday when they ditched it they looked a different team..So there must be problems in the camp..The difference in systems in Dublin and Tyrone is harte has these tyrone players since minor so they are comfortable with it ...With Dublin i think its you can't teach an old dog new tricks....

If thet wan't to change how Dublin play maybe they shoud change the structure in the underage academys and work there way up that way...

As for winning Sam were not going to win it with the new system END OF for me....But at least the old way we could give teams a run for there money....

Good posts Tc

**Shinners** Tue Jun 15, 2010 7:44 pm

GAA Fan in response to your question, Bastic was retrospectively red carded after kicking/stamping on Donaghy when he came on with water during the match v Kerry last year.
Brennan was sent off against Kildare.
Both are probably looking at 8 weeks.
Bastic has more red cards to his name than a postman on Valentines Day and Brennan is catching up. Against Meath last year, he should've been sent off - he wasn't does Giller drop him in favour of someone more disciplined to teach him a lesson? (Take off a Vincents player? affraid

are you mad? Dublin v Wexford - Page 3 654413

) and then what happens against Kildare?

Anywho aside from that, Dublin were poor yesterday but they showed a bit of character coming from 7 down to win by 7. As someone else said, play 6 forwards 2 midfielders and 6 backs fairly simple. Dublin do not have the footballers to adopt the defensive approach. It worked in the league against teams who had had a good Christmas but not against sharper teams in the summer. The full back line did well IMO. I think the next day it should be:

Cluxton
Fitzsimons
O'Carroll
McMahon
Cahill
O'Sullivan (if fit)
Henry
McAuley
Fennell
Keaney
A. Brogan
Cullen
O'Gara
B. Brogan
Quinn

The sooner Giller shakes the shackles of Whelan off him then he might become some kind of decent manager but Dublin will not win an All Ireland as long as he is Whelans puppet

**Thomas Clarke** Tue Jun 15, 2010 7:53 pm

No Paul Flynn on that side Shinners? Id've thought that, after Bernard Brogan, Flynn is probably the second Dublin forward on Gilroy's teamsheet. And rightly so based on the last 2 years.

Was wondering, what would the Dubs on here think of playing Flynn in midfield instead of Fennell? He looks big enough, and has a great engine.

**Jayo Cluxton** Tue Jun 15, 2010 7:54 pm

Its also a handicap having a midfielder booked in the first 10 - then make another dodgy tackle and leave the manager with no option but to take him off before 20. Discipline, discipline, discipline.

**mullins** Tue Jun 15, 2010 8:11 pm

[quote="Thomas Clarke"]No Paul Flynn on that side Shinners? Id've thought that, after Bernard Brogan, Flynn is probably the second Dublin forward on Gilroy's teamsheet. And rightly so based on the last 2 years.

Was wondering, what would the Dubs on here think of playing Flynn in midfield instead of Fennell? He looks big enough, and has a great engine.[/quote

Flynn played midfield v Galway 09-He done ok there haven't seen him start there since he has good enginge should be giving a go can't see it this year though....

**Shinners** Tue Jun 15, 2010 8:52 pm

Sorry meant to put Flynn in for Fennell, almost 100% Flynner plays midfield for Fins.
Fennel sailed close to the wind a few times during the league and was booked very early on Sunday, starting on the bench might shock some discipline into him

**Jayo Cluxton** Tue Jun 15, 2010 10:51 pm

Shinners wrote:starting on the bench might shock some discipline into him

Or he'll think he's back at the club .......... Dublin v Wexford - Page 3 Icon_lol

**patrique** Tue Jun 15, 2010 11:17 pm

Jaysus, Humphries got this spot on, even his wish for the Dubs to be pinned to the collar, to show the determination and grit that marked Gilroy's own career.

You'd swear Tom had seen the game before it was played.

**Jayo Cluxton** Tue Jun 15, 2010 11:35 pm

patrique wrote:You'd swear Tom had seen the game before it was played.

Well he wouldn't have looked out of place if he was togged out in the first half.

**patrique** Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:49 pm

bocerty wrote:
mossbags wrote:
bocerty wrote:
Jayo Cluxton wrote: I am sick of this 'systems' talk. Football is an easy game - its 15 v 15. Play 6 forwards and 6 defenders - mark man to man. If your opposition pulls a man back then go with him and have 7 forwards - simple really.

best post of this forum - it is a simple game complicated by a bunch of men called managers/trainers/coaches who in my opinion dont really know what they are at (all bar one or two). They set up systems were they dont really have the players to carry out these systems - the truth is they'd probably make more headway if they just kept it as a 15v15 match.

Biggest problem is it filters its way down to even u8 and u10 football and really f**ks the whole thing up"

Micky Harte started it

incorrect my dear friend - he just took it to a whole new level and done it better than anyone else!!!!

I think many would say Barney Carr did that.

Others would go for Peter McDermott, Heffo, Boylan or the non pareil Micko who did it with Kildare, Laois, Wicklow and even Kerry.

But many managers do try to ape a system without having the players.

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