Tyrone v Dublin

Big game for both sides this weekend. Tyrone need to survive in division 1, as relegation after 4 home games would be very disappointing. Any momentum taken from the Kerry win would be lost if we were to lose to the Dubs this weekend.

Dublin also need a win badly. Started with 4 victories, but they have lost their last 2, and won't want to go into the championship on the back of 3 defeats, especially when they are trying to build confidence in new players and a new system.

Both have picked fairly strong sides, although both are rotating keepers. Don't know a lot about Savage, but Jonny Curran is very weak. I'm disappointed but not surprised that Harte has selected Ryan McMenamin at corner back. Ricey has been awful this year at wing-back and is very lucky to get the nod ahead of Cathal McCarron for Sunday. Davy Harte is another who is somehow hanging onto ihs jersey, despite being miles off the pace. What does SeanO'Neill need to do to get a start at wing back?

In attack, Brian McGuigan hasn't looked like himself for 5 years now, and Mark Donnelly is not inter-county standard. Add in two 19 year olds at wing forward and we have a patchy looking attack. Having said that about the wing-forwards though, Coney has a lot of natural ability, and Peter Harte was excellent against Kerry, and I'd have very high hopes for him over the next few years,

Dublin have brought Denis Bastic back to add some steel in the middle, and Cian O'Sullivan is probably more suited to the wing at this stage in his career. I dont recall Hugh Gill touching the ball against Galway, so he had to go. Corkery brings more to the attack than Bonner, but it still looks like a defensive set up with Brogan being relied upon to score. Justy McMahon is a huge loss for Tyrone.

Overall, I'd be very disappointed if Tyrone didnt win, particularly given the consequences of a defeat. But looking at both forward lines, there won't be much in it.

I would like to see Tyrone keep their top flight status but it really depends which side shows up on the day they have been so hit and miss in the league so far, mostly miss.. But Dublin will need a terrific performance to beat Tyrone in their own ground.

TC what is the story with that Cassidy fella? I seen him in one game for Tyrone this year thought he was very impressive.

Got to fancy tyrone for this one, i like the dubs and think they will do well this year but still tyrone are a class act when the chips are down and it would take an almighty performance from the dubs to take them if they are on form, the other thing is i doubt the dub manager will be up for showing his cards at this time of the year with such a performance.

Jonsmith wrote:
TC what is the story with that Cassidy fella? I seen him in one game for Tyrone this year thought he was very impressive.

Reasonable height, very good fielder, decent feet, versatile, strong runner going forward. Plays in a similar style to Sean Cavanagh, although isn't as good as Sean. Needs to add more defensively, particularly if playing alongside Colm Cavanagh. Would probably benefit from having someone like Kevin Hughes beside him, but Colm Cavanagh's form has been very good of late, and that looks like our championship midfield just now.

I'd say Cassidy's form has dipped in the last 2 games, perhaps a result of Sean Cavanagh coming back. As I mentioned, they like to play a similar game, and Sean's game will take precendence if he is near midfield. Cassidy also was switched in and out of full-forward a lot against Kerry, and while he can play there, I think the constant moving positions didn't help him.

Good addition to the side though, and likely to feature regularly in the summer.

I think Tyrone have got to be strong favs here. Bastic will bring a bit of steel but has a tendency for the red mist and this is just the type of game he'll do something silly. A win would be nice as I fancy Cork to beat Mayo (I'd say the GAA would like this too!) - but I reckon Tyrone have more to lose than Dublin and this could be the difference between the sides in the end.

TC I agree 100% with opinions on Ricey and Harte - though against Kerry ricey paid the price by being subbed, quite how Harte wasnt replaced as well is beyond me and thats not the only game - against Cork he was awful, spent the whole game marking his shadow!!!

If i were Sean O' Neill i wouldn't be happy at all he isnt getting much of a chance, i would also stick Martin Swift into the half back line or put in the corner and put Carlin into the half back line.

Interesting to see Harte has named big Sean at FF for the game he obviously sees this as weakness with the Dubs we can exploit.

Cassidy is a decent footballer great engine and a great pair of hands, first time i came across him was 3 years ago when he helped his club to a Junior championship win - he was outstanding that night and virtually won the game single handedly even though he was very young and was up against a number of seasoned campaigners.

i think Tyrone will start as favourites but with HQ standing to lose €600k if Dublin dont make the final we will be up against 16 men no doubt

I actually think Joe Mc Mahon is better suited at fullback than the brother - i would be inclined to play Justy at CBH or midfield were he will run all day. All in all it makes for an interesting game.

Yeah Boc, I'd also be looking to keep Joe at full-back, not so much because I don't think Juty can play there, but because he is wasted there. Should really be at CHB where, as you say, he could dominate games with his athleticism and long passing. Gormley's has been quite good so far, which is reassuring as he was a bit off the pace last year.

I know he is a Killyclogher man, but I don't think Swift is good enough. Seems a bit small and light to me, but there is still time for him. I prefer McCarron, purely on the basis of him being bigger, although he still can make mistakes. Carlin looks to have finally started to tighten up a little bit, after years of being just 'a good prospect'.

I just hope that we don't go back into the championship with the same defence as last year, as it was just too slow, particularly the half backs. Justy or O'Neill (or both) should be in there, or I can see the likes of Galvin/O'Sullivan or Kelly/O'Neill running all over us later in the year.

We are improving, but a win on Sunday is very important.

the only thing Swift has going against him is possibly his height - he is as good a defender as Harte much quicker and a lot stronger so whilst he is a fellow clubman i think he has a lot to offer the team with the all action style they play - he could do a job at 10 or 12 either funnelling back looking dirty ball and he is quite accurate with the kickpass/shooting.

His confidence wouldnt be the best - i think he knows that no matter how much game time he gets in the league he will not feature during the champo which is bound to play with the old head.

Mc Carron while a great club player has yet to convince me about his intercounty credentials - in fact the Kerry game was probably his best performance for them until he got sent off.

Come on the Dubs! They're our best chance of staying in Division 1!

mid-mon man wrote:Come on the Dubs! They're our best chance of staying in Division 1!

good to see the Ulster (or is that British) contingent sticking together

bocerty wrote:

mid-mon man wrote:Come on the Dubs! They're our best chance of staying in Division 1!

good to see the Ulster (or is that British) contingent sticking together

Usually I'd like to see my neighbours do well, but tis the last round of the league, survival on the line and the gloves are off!

Unfortunately though I see two home wins in Killarney and Omagh coming up. It's nice to still have our fate in our own hands but you don't often see Kerry losing in Kerry in a game that matters, and Tyrone will be hard beat at home aswell with league status at stake.

tyrone by 5

Thomas Clarke wrote:Big game for both sides this weekend. Tyrone need to survive in division 1, as relegation after 4 home games would be very disappointing. Any momentum taken from the Kerry win would be lost if we were to lose to the Dubs this weekend.

Dublin also need a win badly. Started with 4 victories, but they have lost their last 2, and won't want to go into the championship on the back of 3 defeats, especially when they are trying to build confidence in new players and a new system.

Both have picked fairly strong sides, although both are rotating keepers. Don't know a lot about Savage, but Jonny Curran is very weak. I'm disappointed but not surprised that Harte has selected Ryan McMenamin at corner back. Ricey has been awful this year at wing-back and is very lucky to get the nod ahead of Cathal McCarron for Sunday. Davy Harte is another who is somehow hanging onto ihs jersey, despite being miles off the pace. What does SeanO'Neill need to do to get a start at wing back?

In attack, Brian McGuigan hasn't looked like himself for 5 years now, and Mark Donnelly is not inter-county standard. Add in two 19 year olds at wing forward and we have a patchy looking attack. Having said that about the wing-forwards though, Coney has a lot of natural ability, and Peter Harte was excellent against Kerry, and I'd have very high hopes for him over the next few years,

Dublin have brought Denis Bastic back to add some steel in the middle, and Cian O'Sullivan is probably more suited to the wing at this stage in his career. I dont recall Hugh Gill touching the ball against Galway, so he had to go. Corkery brings more to the attack than Bonner, but it still looks like a defensive set up with Brogan being relied upon to score. Justy McMahon is a huge loss for Tyrone.

Overall, I'd be very disappointed if Tyrone didnt win, particularly given the consequences of a defeat. But looking at both forward lines, there won't be much in it.

Tc Dublin will not line up as selected i think there will be a few changes- Cian is our no 6 can't see him playing wing back..As for saying this is a strong Dublin team can't agree with you there..As giller said if we fall into the final we'll take it- but it wasn't the plan.....But saying that i thought Tyrone would have started a stronger team....A weak Dublin team coulds steal it who knows......

Perhaps Mullins, but with O'Carroll, Bastic, McConnell & Fennell all there it is hard to see O'Sullivan at CHB. Maybe he might, but that would mean one of the others out on the wing, which would be strange.

I don't think it is a strong Dublin side, but it looks stronger than the one that played against Galway, for instance. I know you expect a lot of changes come the summer, but this is basically as good as what you have just now. I'll put it like this: If Dublin win today, then I think that this will be the guts of your side for the start of the championship, with only the likes of Brogan & Cluxton to come back in.

Tyrone are getting close to their championship team also, and a win today will see 11-12 of these start against Antrim.

Only saw the first half but Bernard Brogan was awesome again - with good and early ball into him. Some beautiful scores - I think our first 7 were all from play.

On another thread Essie was giving out about the new head to head result to split teams - when it has worked out for Mayo and shafted Dublin! The unfortunate thing is that it left Cork not giving a sh1t about today cos they were in the Final anyway. If it was the usual system they would have had to have played or may have missed out on the Final. Disappointing for Dublin but them's the rules but given what way it panned out today maybe the old way would be better.

Jayo Cluxton wrote:Only saw the first half but Bernard Brogan was awesome again - with good and early ball into him. Some beautiful scores - I think our first 7 were all from play.

On another thread Essie was giving out about the new head to head result to split teams - when it has worked out for Mayo and shafted Dublin! The unfortunate thing is that it left Cork not giving a sh1t about today cos they were in the Final anyway. If it was the usual system they would have had to have played or may have missed out on the Final. Disappointing for Dublin but them's the rules but given what way it panned out today maybe the old way would be better.

Jc we will get 3 games in the Leinster Championship to sort out our squad ....We don't need the headache of a league final....Keep Cork at bay till august.....We will be judged by our results in August not April...

Am i happy so far -Yes i am..

another poor performance from us today - defence was non existent for large parts of the game, ball into the forwards was nothing short of sh1te for large parts too. Got cleaned out at midfield again until Hub came on and started throwing his weight about.

We made too many mistakes and some of the passes were suicidal trying to get men killed. Funny thing was we did get our running game going sporadically and when we did it was effective we also had a good start to the second half and had several chances after the goal to close the gap a little further, our collective naiveness saw us going for goal at every opportunity when a point was a good score and we could easily have drawn level and forced the Dubs out of their mainly defensive efforts in the second half.

Alas it wasn't to be and after 7 games i think Mickey has more questions than answers - we appear to be a pale shadow of our former selves and whilst the consensus in the county appears to be that it will be different come championship i am finding it extremely difficult to believe that - form isnt something you can turn off and on like a tap.

i believe that our fellas have been doing a lot of fitness work at the minute not really tryin to hit top gear yet. last year we started 100 miles per hour than ran out of steam once we got to croker.

i think he different tack may be what is needed to get a few more miles out of the older players legs and wouldnt be overly worried at relegation. we never have played too well in omagh so being at home is never really an advantage anyway.

we'll see what threw our way in casement and sure who cares who wins the legaue derry and donegal have both won it in the last 3 years and promptly scaked the manager after a disaterous championship.

although the current form is worrying im holding judgement until we are in knockout football.

I appreciate what you are saying RHM, and I do believe that some other counties are further ahead of us in fitness stakes, but I don't agree with this belief within ths county that we are somehow different this year than last year.

You say that last year we started at 100mph, but when was this? We were nearly relegated last year in the league, laboured past a young Armagh and a poor Derry outfit, struggled to put Antrim away in the Ulster final, were almost beaten by Kildare and were wiped out by Cork.

I don't actually think we have looked good since the 2008 final, and that for me is the biggest worry. I'd love to think that Ricey, Harte, McGuigan, McGinley & the likes will all suddenly spring to life come July, but I have serious doubts.

sorry TC i meant that all the talk from the camp last year was 2 in a row going great guns at training. thats what i meant by 100 mph where as this year from all accounts in the paper and from general hear say is that MH is keeping his powder dry so to speak. and that at the players are personally responsible for keeping them selves in shape at the minute before picking it up over the next few weeks.

funny as with the way the league is going you could say have we been keeping the powder dry os that the goose is cooked!

as an eternal optimist i would still think come may june july we will be a different beast

That's true RHM, there is certainly less talk at this stage of the year than last year.

I agree with you that we wil be a lot better come the summer, and O'Neill & the McMahons are an enormous chunk out of our side, but whether or not we are good enough to win the championship is very debatable.

A big concern for me is that there doesn't seem to be a plan. Knowing Harte, I'm sure there is, but I can't see it. I don't see a style of play, or some sort of system that we are working towards. I mean look at Dublin, and you can see what the plan is. It may not be pretty and it may or may not win them an all-ireland, but you can see what the plan is. Same with Cork and their powerful running game from defence. And Kerry, with their long, swinging balls into Donaghy. I just don't really see what we are trying to do at the minute, and worry that the tactic may still be the pressing game that we have had so much success with in the past, except now a lot of our players no longer have the legs to carry it out.

Mickey has also some big questions to ask himself about some of his favourites. Ricey, & Davy Harte have really struggled in every game this year. Gormley & Jordan look a bit sharper than last year, but I don't think we can get away with playing all 4 of them in defence. Is Davy Harte really offering more than Sean O'Neill at this stage? Likewise up front, how many more chances is Brian McGuigan going to get, or Tommy as well. Brian was an incredible footballer 5 years ago, but he just can't do what he used to anymore.

At full strength, we probably still have enough to be a handful for anyone, but Mickey has to now bite the bullet and make the few changes that are needed to add speed into the side, or else the summer will be a short one.

again TC not a lot to disagree with. MH i felt always seem to play each opponents with differing tactics. a horses for courses attitude. with never an exact plan to follow like say armagh under big joe or kerry under pat oshea

for example in 03 he hit kerry with the swarm in 05 he tried to draw teams in before hitting them on the counter with several great footballing atheltes with mcguigan plling the strings in 08 he started with sean at FF which worked a treat up to and including the dubs game yet come wexford who had great success with an extra defender he played them man for man with ricey scoring the first two points, that year joe mcmahon was the "new" dooher giving himself to the cause at wing half forward and puttin in a crazy amount of work over every match yet v kerry he started at corner back moving out once the twin towers were halved.

if you would look at the build up when tyrone have the ball it always seems a bit helter skelter to me with te ball being threw about until an option is available. he seems to have an inherent trust in the panels ability to produce , the prime example being that he always rotates his players in the early part of the year to get them all game time against the best opposition so that come summer all players have some sort of knowledge to draw on if they are needed for the really big games.

yes this year will probably be the begining of the end of that special group of minors with the likleyhood of all of them being on the field at once being slim . but if there is anybody inside tyrone who knows what it takes to win and draw the best from those available to him its harte and i still think we would be in the top 4-5 teams come championship time. would the dubs or kerry like to cross us in croker or would cork for that matter either?

I would have to agree with alot of what has been said previously by TC, RHM and Boc. I too would be the eternal optimist and look forward to a team that includes the two McMahon's, Stevy O'Neill, Mulligan and PJ Quinn. Positives to take out of the league has to be the introduction of Pete Harte ("finally a Harte worthy of their place" a Dromore gael said to me yesterday lol) and some flashes of brilliance from young Coney. Cassidy also impressed. Overall Penrose had a reasonable league and McKenna cup but was quite poor yesterday and i suppose Curran made up for his nitemare against Cork in goal.

I was very dissapointed by the performances of both Davy harte and Enda McGinley during the NFL and McKenna cup campaigns. I don't think Davy is worthy of a place at present to be honest, Hope he can get back on track again. Was also dissapointed that young mcCusker left the panel due to work commitments. Couldn't fathom why Mark Donnelly started yesterday. Bad and all as Tommy McCguigan has been of late i thought it was a major gamble by Harte that backfired. Also felt that Gormley should have been on young Brogan from the start of the game.

Tyrone have actually been fortunate not to have been relegated over this last 2 or 3 years and I suppose all will be forgotten if a decent championship run follows.

Can we win the All Ireland?? - the optomistic heart says yes but the head can't see us gettin past the quarter finals unless we have a full strength panel to choose from and as long as no more roof's cave in along the way......

Oh and finally well done to the dubs and their wonderful travelling support yesterday and sure at least we get Derry at home next year in the new "big league" alongside the likes of Meath, Donegal and Kildare. It could be worse

Fully understand your analysing Tyrone lads but just wonder what ye made of the Dublin performance?

Jayo Cluxton wrote:Fully understand your analysing Tyrone lads but just wonder what ye made of the Dublin performance?

Jayo, The thing that stood out for me in the first half was the movement of your forward line. There was obvious good link up play between midfield and the half forwards and lets be honest Bernard Brogan was on fire yesterday (Thats why I felt that Gormley should have been on him from the start). Dublin's midfield dominated the first half but the introduction of Hub Hughes made a difference to us for about the first fifteen minutes of the second half.

Above all Dublin's ability to ride out this storm early in the second half when the pressure was on possibly helped then to see the game over the line especially after we got the early second half goal. Other Dublin teams in the past may have caved in under pressure but not yesterday. Possibly if Tyrone had taken the following four scoring oppertunities it would have left just a point in it with about 20 minutes to play but they did show some resiliance and never let Tyrone any closer than 4-5 points before eventually getting a score to nip our revival in the bud so to speak.

What was also obvious was the number of defenders filtering back to help out and then hitting Tyrone on the break but in saying that We aimed some desperate poor ball into our full forward line that was easily dealt with by the Dublin defence. There is a ruggedness and greater workrate evident in Dublin plus of course the two Brogan's. If fit, they'll be a handful for any team in this years championship. Maybe not making the NFL final isn't such a bad thing as all will realise that there is still alot of work to be done if a successful championship is to follow.

After yesterday hopefully Mickey will have his homework done in case we do meet each other in July or August!!