Signs of economic recovery (Green shoots) spotted in West.

KerryKatriona wrote:
This is exactly the kind of thing that has this country on its knees. Smart alec accountants ensuring that people avoid paying their taxes. The result is that the bona fide taxpayer gets hammered while the others claim this that and the other and pay no tax at all. And see nothing wrong with it. No wonder we are where we are. A dose of morality and reality in some professions would not go amiss. Some hope.

No laws being broken with any of my advice. If there are legitimate ways to reduce your tax bill them you would be stupid not to avail of them.
It's BS to blame the people who legally follow the rules to their best advantage, if you don't like things try blaming the system.

black&white wrote:
No laws being broken with any of my advice. If there are legitimate ways to reduce your tax bill them you would be stupid not to avail of them.
It's BS to blame the people who legally follow the rules to their best advantage, if you don't like things try blaming the system.

Exactly the kind of cop-out I'd expect. Well done your reply says it all really. Some of the things you advised are not technically legal by the way. Andyes the system is all wrong. But then your clients are the very ones who ring the radio shows and turn on the public service when the tax take etc from this sector is whats keeping the country going. I don't know how some of ye sleep at night.

An even better trick is for the smart alec accountants to sell this advice for 350 lids an hour. And an even better trick is for the smart alec accountants to hire former revenue inspectors to make sure that they are giving ya the right advice.

KerryKatriona wrote:

black&white wrote:
No laws being broken with any of my advice. If there are legitimate ways to reduce your tax bill them you would be stupid not to avail of them.
It's BS to blame the people who legally follow the rules to their best advantage, if you don't like things try blaming the system.

Exactly the kind of cop-out I'd expect. Well done your reply says it all really. Some of the things you advised are not technically legal by the way. Andyes the system is all wrong. But then your clients are the very ones who ring the radio shows and turn on the public service when the tax take etc from this sector is whats keeping the country going. I don't know how some of ye sleep at night.

Could you explain how the tax take from the public service is keeping the country going. Even if public servants paid all of their tax at 51%, and spent all of their disposable income on goods with 21% VAT it would mean that for every €72 received from the public service in taxes €100 would have to be paid out. That's a net outgoing, no matter how you want to try to dress it up.

And as for our client's ringing up radio stations, I think you'll find they're too busy working. Our clients are the ones providing employment in the country, and who contribute a hell of a lot more to the economy than the vast majoirty of the bureaucrats who are clogging up the public service

black&white wrote:

Could you explain how the tax take from the public service is keeping the country going. Even if public servants paid all of their tax at 51%, and spent all of their disposable income on goods with 21% VAT it would mean that for every €72 received from the public service in taxes €100 would have to be paid out. That's a net outgoing, no matter how you want to try to dress it up.

And as for our client's ringing up radio stations, I think you'll find they're too busy working. Our clients are the ones providing employment in the country, and who contribute a hell of a lot more to the economy than the vast majoirty of the bureaucrats who are clogging up the public service

You as an accountant must surely be aware that the vast majority of the 360,000 public servants are health sector (112,000), teachers (93,000), gardai (13,500) and defence forces (11,000). Yes lets get rid of all these nurses teachers and guards clogging up the system and then lets kick up hell when we have hospital waiting lists or our schools are undermanned or crime is rampant.

As for a new outgoing you neglect to factor in service provision there and there are huge elements of the public service who also collect and generate income. While those who teach people to beat the system cream off a months average industrial wage for two days 'work' and contribute little or nothing to the Exchequer because as you admit they know how to beat the system. Its the little man, the honest worker that gets nailed every time. Just have a look at the figures and see who pays the tax in this country. It isn't your clients.

KerryKatriona wrote:

black&white wrote:

Could you explain how the tax take from the public service is keeping the country going. Even if public servants paid all of their tax at 51%, and spent all of their disposable income on goods with 21% VAT it would mean that for every €72 received from the public service in taxes €100 would have to be paid out. That's a net outgoing, no matter how you want to try to dress it up.

And as for our client's ringing up radio stations, I think you'll find they're too busy working. Our clients are the ones providing employment in the country, and who contribute a hell of a lot more to the economy than the vast majoirty of the bureaucrats who are clogging up the public service

You as an accountant must surely be aware that the vast majority of the 360,000 public servants are health sector (112,000), teachers (93,000), gardai (13,500) and defence forces (11,000). Yes lets get rid of all these nurses teachers and guards clogging up the system and then lets kick up hell when we have hospital waiting lists or our schools are undermanned or crime is rampant.

As for a new outgoing you neglect to factor in service provision there and there are huge elements of the public service who also collect and generate income. While those who teach people to beat the system cream off a months average industrial wage for two days 'work' and contribute little or nothing to the Exchequer because as you admit they know how to beat the system. Its the little man, the honest worker that gets nailed every time. Just have a look at the figures and see who pays the tax in this country. It isn't your clients.

_______________________
I beg to differ
I am making an educated guess for whom B&W works for as I think he has commented elsewhere on transport options to work which narrows it down. So if he works for that firm then I can in fact speak for several of his firms clients who over the past decade have paid tens of millions of tax including tax on profit of "export business". In reality its export business that adds value as for domestic business one can argue that if there is a market someone else in Ireland could do it instead (unless you are competing with imports) . on top of this there is the income tax/PRSI generated by the thousands of jobs that are created. In reality the biggest reason that we use tax advice is to ensure that profits are taxed in Ireland rather than say in the UK - This in fact benefits the Irish exchequer makes us more competitive and leads to employment creation and more tax etc etc.

Rubbish they all avail of corporate tax rates and pay as little as they humanely can. Its their employees anyway that pay the tax, PRSI and not the firm.

KerryKatriona wrote:Rubbish they all avail of corporate tax rates and pay as little as they humanely can. Its their employees anyway that pay the tax, PRSI and not the firm.

Well on top of paying employers' PRSI, they also pay the gross wage that the employee's taxes come from. No employer means no job, meaning no taxes whatsoever.
But don't let facts get in the way of the propaganda that your trade union has forced down your throat.
Rua (as indicated) knows where I work, and would be familiar with the sort of clients that I and my dept provide services to. I've worked for three different clients since Xmas, and the combined tax bill for these three is in excess of €140 million.

As for your figures on the public service, I referred to bureaucrats (who are crippling the public sector), not front line sevice providers. Out of the 112k in the health service, how many actually have any contact with patients? The public sector is bloated with middle-management who do nothing but send paperwork along the bureaucratic chain and add no value to the system. That's where cuts need to be made, then there's a chance that the service might run even semi-efficiently.

KerryKatriona wrote:Rubbish they all avail of corporate tax rates and pay as little as they humanely can. Its their employees anyway that pay the tax, PRSI and not the firm.

Rubbish ?
Which part of my post was incorrect ?
An Irish company pays corporation tax on its profits @ 12.5%.
Also two of the businesses I work for sell products which attract stamp duty - this amounts to tens of million per annum

The Employer generates Employment which generates a salary which generates tax. Yes that is paid by the employee but if that job was in India or England there would be no tax for the Irish government.

Employers PRSI is paid by the employer not the Empoyee 10.75%.

Boxtyeater wrote:

Ruanua wrote:It may well have been
Half of a set of twins if that narrows it down !!

Spot on Rua...John D is a first cousin of mine...gas world....

Boxty -

This is far too small a world
With regard to aforementioned cousin of yours
I was out for spuds tonight with ball and chain and met JD in same restaurant - hadn't seen him in 7 years odd
Though what he was doing with a dodgy hotelier from Clones and a Cavan lawyer i can't explain.

Rua, you'd never know what JD might be up to....Did you know that he's breeding....wait for it....donkeys....

He has rakes of them in various outposts around the place...money in them somewhere I'd guess for he's not minding them out of love...

Boxty

I do recall that when he moved into the place in cavan that someone bought him an Ass (an uncle I think). He said that it was supposed to bring good luck but on reflection maybe it was a feasbility study.

Maybe they are going to buy up all the empty hotels and convert them into donkey sanctuarys ?

Just a quick up-date on this project....due to the demise of an elderly neighbour over the past few days the village was awash with removal and funeral goers over the weekend... .Boxty ferried about 600 crosses down to the "vicinity" of the Church on Sat. evening and the Crane "miraculously" appeared in pony and cart bang on cue with 400 more..all cleared..

Boxty envisaged an all night meithéal (to produce another 200) Saturday night till he became intoxicated with a mixture of success, porter and nostalgia... Suffice to say The Crane did the biz again yesterday (the children are brilliant) and having reviewed the "financials" this evening all parties are very pleased with the success of the enterprise...

The moral of the story is: Rushes, opportunity and planning is the way forward......

Could this thread be deleted please now ?? Thanks in advance...

Boxtyeater wrote:Could this thread be deleted please now ?? Thanks in advance...

No chance - for a number of reasons.

1. It is an excellent example of the entrepreneurial skills whiich exist in this country.

2. It is a shining example of what can be achieved through international co-operation.

3. It outlines how the clever use of children can ensure maximum return - without sending them up chimneys.

4. Revenue will be interested in matching up the success with the returns declared.

5. It is still St Brigid's Day.

6. It promotes the use of green materials.

Should I write to Minister Gormley seeking assistance with a "feasability study" for 2011?...(coughs) not mentioning the 2010 pilot enterprise...We could take this National in 2011 given proper Governmental support....

Boxtyeater wrote:Should I write to Minister Gormley seeking assistance with a "feasability study" for 2011?...(coughs) not mentioning the 2010 pilot enterprise...We could take this National in 2011 given proper Governmental support....

Feesability more like ........

ps I am nominating you for the Ernst & Young Entrepreneur of the Year Award (thats not young entrepreneur obviously). I look forward to seeing you in your tux at the glitzy awards night explaining how you made it happen.

Jayo Cluxton wrote:
Feesability more like ........

ps I am nominating you for the Ernst & Young Entrepreneur of the Year Award (thats not young entrepreneur obviously). I look forward to seeing you in your tux at the glitzy awards night explaining how you made it happen.

Funnily, as you mention that, I'm in a tux job collecting a national award later in the month!!!!! Smoke that one....

Boxtyeater wrote:
Funnily, as you mention that, I'm in a tux job collecting a national award later in the month!!!!! Smoke that one....

Jaysus you're a gas man! I daren't guess - Tidy towns maybe - or poteen making. Perhaps turf cutting - or climbing thru windows - storytellying...

ps How was Wexford?

Never got there...Corporal work of Mercy call...Bury the dead...an elderly neighbour aged 92 was overtaken by the Grim Reaper....Middling Thursday, no joy Friday.. Big, good and decent family, mostly away but cracker good to him, ne're a weekend on his own, hail, rain or snow.
A very knowledgeable man in the ways of country practises (coughs) who had a great jolly send off...
Fenagh "en-fete" Sunday evening was a joy to behold after everything, Gary, floods, frost and snow....

Spring is coming...

Pursuant to the Cavan thread, Junior and Boxty spent a few days on a sort of "fact-finding" mission in Ukraine of late.
'Twas a sort of an introductory run, Boxty focussing on markets like alcohol, tobacco, contraceptive devices and at Junior's request, tabasco sauce
Junior had arranged meetings with various CEO's and we headquartered in the Ritz in Kiev (suite at about €49 per day).
Boxty, being unsure of foreign foods, had brought variations of boxty (pan, cake and loaf) should the fare available prove unpalatable.
As Junior and I were dining one evening, who buzzed our suite but the minister for food (Boris something). Boxty was enjoying a full plate of pan boxty, the aroma of which grabbed the nostrils of Boris.....

Boris: Vot is dis?..This is manifique???? (He loved it)..
Junior: Boris...Boxty and I make it commercially...
Boris: Fhere?
Junior: Opens the lapper and shows Boris what suspiciously looks like the MBNA building in Carrick..more

Boris and Junior engage in a 10 minute dialogue, the only understandable word being boxty, before Boris departs having cleaned out the mini-bar, much hugging and a few rancid farts...

The aftermath is that we have secured a contract to export gazillions of tonnes of boxty to Ukraine asap.....
In the short term, I've been down to McNiff's in Aughnasheelin (commercial boxty makers) and given them a vague outline of matters...But what next??? Does Boxty cut them in at say 5%....Establish a boxty plant locally?..Where would I get a refrigerated unit for next to nothing? ....Should I establish a company involving the Crane????

No snide comments now folks..B&W, I'll see you right for the few chaineys on Connacht Final day.....

Choices,decisions......

How are things in Kiev Boxty ?

At the pinnacle of the madness that was the Celtic Tiger Omar bought a 2% stake in an office block in the business district. 300k sq foot which I just realised means I own 6,000 sq foot of it.

Had written it off as not the wisest weeks work but I suppose if I pegged off my own corner I'd have quite a comfortable living space but a bummer of a commute.

Had forgotten about the damn thing till I saw this thread, last time I checked on the value the local currency had weakened beyond the limits of my calculator.

If you need a boxty storage facility I might do you a deal - Though insurance does not cover manufacturing involving heat or cold room storage.

As regards the business side of things
clearly the most attractive aspect of this is the "export" element which will mean salivation level interest from Batt and co.

The best way to position this is to approach a friend who has a company serving an Irish base say 20 staff or so. Tell him you will throw him €20k if you can borrow his staff. You wheel in the IDA and tell this is your export serving call centre and you will get €10k a pop in grant funding. €200k will more than enough to open a facility for 50 boxty makeers in eastern Ukraine. your mate can give you what he would need to pay his 20 staff. You send this to Kiev to run the foreign factory and use the IDA money to pay your "Irish staff".
Any money from sale of boxty or otherwise is an added bonus.

And I paid Black&White exorbitant rates for "advice" earlier on in this thread..

This poster OMAR is truly a welcome addition to this forum...

It would also be worth enquiring as the availability of grant funding to support overseas market research, trade missions and the like.

Though you should be warned that any specific grant claims will need to be supported by evidence of detailed expenditure. In this context one should bear in mind that any such application is potentially open to public and media review through the Freedom of Information Act.

In that regard it would be prudent to consider the publicity impact of any of the following.

Excessive use of Executive Airport Lounges
Trips that happen to coincide with sporting events
Use of "Interpretors" in particular outside of business hours
Use of expensive Hair. Nail or facial care experts
Use of any sundry "massage" and treament facilities
Viewing of Pay per "view movies"