Bernard McNamara....cancels holiday (in Curracloe)...

Legendary developer Bernard McNamara has been forced to cancel an holiday he had planned for July. Unlike myself, who is potless, but can still by a pint with my own money, the bould Bernard is in the hole personally for about €63m. and has an overall corporate deficit of circa €1.2bn. At today's mark down rate of 50% their shortfall will exceed €600m..

Jaysus folks that's a lot of moolah!! However, on the brighter side for us folk, Bernardo is probably going to steam ahead into litigation with the DDA. This is where the fun will start, when his cohorts in this ill-advised venture seek to cover their own positions while hanging Bernard out to dry or be fleeced altogether. We "may" then get a chance to see who paid what with whose and where the kickbacks came from and went to....

Oh! for the late Jim Gogarty* now to boost RTE's comedy ratings...

*Jim Gogarty: (carrying 30 large in the brown bag, as they cruised to Ray Burke's) "Will we get a receipt for this Mick?"
Mick Bailey: "Will we fook!!!"

I dunno Boxty. I look on a developer like Samin outside the bookies with £20 in his hand. He's going in that door hoping to come out with £40 or £50 or more. No punter went into a bookie to lose money. Similarly no developer took a loan in order to lose money. Most of these guys started by building small housing developments and worked their way up - providing plenty of employment along the way. They are not blameless but sure every Tom, Dick and Harry lost the run of themselves during the Celtic Tiger madness.

I think the real blame lies with the banks and lending institutions. They are the people supposed to have the expertise. Supposed to vet the risks and loan appropriately. They didn't and got greedy - more greedy than the developers.

I kind of feel sorry for the likes of Carroll and McNamara etc. They are pilloried by all quarters. The bankers and the like remain in their cushy jobs while these guys are losing everything.

Plenty of punters go into a bookies subconsiously hoping to lose Jayo, this is a proven addictive 'rush' just as much as winning is. If you need further proof just check out loyals tips. Blaming the banks is fair enough but fookers taking responsibility for their own actions and not spending wrecklessly with money that was never theirs in the first place might help as well.

mossbags wrote:Plenty of punters go into a bookies subconsiously hoping to lose Jayo, this is a proven addictive 'rush' just as much as winning is. If you need further proof just check out loyals tips. Blaming the banks is fair enough but fookers taking responsibility for their own actions and not spending wrecklessly with money that was never theirs in the first place might help as well.

No Moss - I agree they have got to face the consequences - but to me the banks are the real culprits. As for the money they were soending not being theirs - well I have a mortgage and there are thousands of others who have similarly - a lot of these in 'negative equity' (hate that expression). That money was/is not mine in the first place. And for people in negative equity - not dissimilar to the developers plight - are they at fault then too? Did they not over borrow thanks to the banks recklessness?

At least the money the developers were spending was creating jobs (taxes), infrastructure etc. This is conveniently forgotten (ignored) with the instant revisionism we have these days.

Any fecker can go out there 1st thing in the morning Jayo and create 10 jobs. Having a sustainable plan to pay wages/pension however, is something that proved too much for the greedy fook's who sadly inspired this country into the failure it has become. I agree that the banks facilated much of this open and wanton self destruction but the idea of people not taking personal responsibility for their own greed and stupidity will only inspire them or others to make the same mistakes again. As for having a motgage, well thats life, we all need a place to live I suppose, so we all probably have to pay a motgage. 'Investing', however,as so many did and are whinging about now, in a 2nd mortgage(or 3rd or 4rth as was often the case, ansoe and abroad) with the hope of making a return at some point, well tough ****, thats investing and losing. A risk was taken, didn't work out, Tough fookin ****!

good points on all sides. Think i have to side with mr cluxton on this one. A lot of these guys (developers didn't even know that they were signing personal guarentees they trusted the banks and legal advice). I knw two boys fairly well who are caught one for over 40mill (most of ye know hairy) and another schol friens and neighbour caught for over 12mill.
easy to blame as those boys but at least they were generating employment.
what did the banks ever do for us? besides mortgages, savings account, offshore accounts, tax fraud and the list is endless.
Banks to blame about 80% developers 20% and bertie the telflon f**ker about 1,000,000% or however much the hoor pocketed

The vast majority of real "developers" sold their Irish property interests before the recession hit and moved their money into gold or something else. What was left were the lads who thought that they were developers. Lads with a bit of land. Lads with a digger. Lads who had a few bob tucked away. They took a gamble and they lost. Tough sh1t Paddy.

They were't in it to create employment or to build affordable housing or to create well-built and enduring homes. The amount of shoddily (sp) built houses all around the country is unreal. These lads were in it for the money. They took a gamble and lost and now they have to pay the reaper. Such is life.

The bankers deserve a lot of blame but so do the regulators. The regulators were paid by us to keep an eye on the banks and instead they turned a blind eye to illegal practices. For shame.

If you're not in then you cant win

I agree re the shoddy houses and apartments. The country is littered with them and some of them will fall down within 20 years. I have been in houses where the neighbours could hear everything that was going on. Despite all the building regulation it seems houses have never been of a poorer quality. But people still bought them and for silly money.

I don't know that the 'real' developers got out either. The guys before the courts and to come before the courts are not guys with 'a bit of land and a digger'. They were big players.

That is a good point about people buying up 2,3, 4 houses. They are just a smaller scale of the same thing that happened developers. And if they are suffering well nobody held a gun to their head to buy those extra properties. What it does show is the greed that took over this country. But you must ask about the prudence of the 'professional lending' institutions in throwing money at these people. They did it because they were creaming on commissions and bonuses. Not a good way to operate as we now know.

Even a lot of the people now in negative equity were caught up in the greed. Buying something they could not afford, a bigger version of credit card debt really. Again the banks policy here must be questioned with their 110% mortgages.

I too have some sympathy for developers. If there weren't people willing to take a chance, entrepreneurs, nothing would ever get done. And the employment boom from this was huge and therefore the boom for the State's coffers.

Personally I have always lived within my means and as such am not in a large hole now. It is so easy to sit with hindsight and throw stones as our newspapers do. What did they ever do for the country. And for every 'expert' that points out they 'predicted' the crash you will find as many articles by them not predicting it or encouraging people to buy property etc. If they could see it all coming how come they are all not millionaires having got in and out at the right time and made a killing? Spoofers the lot.

Heard of one developer who's wife got a helicopter to Dublin to get the hair done.

clash-of-da-ash wrote:Heard of one developer who's wife got a helicopter to Dublin to get the hair done.

Conal Gallen: "I love your hair, did you come on a motorbike?"