Hurling Format Urgent attention

I will continue to talk abou this over and over until people sit up and realise its a screw up.

Now Antrim fully deserve under the current format to go down should the not win in the relegation play offs but what about Carlow, Down, Westmeath, Derry etc?

These teams need to be placed in some other format not in where a team will come from the LMCC and hammer them and win and go straight back up then it happens again 2 years later its pointless.

I want to propose something that ive not proposed before what if the Leinster and Munster Provincials where played out during April and May with winners seeded to avoid one another within the top 8 teams ie top 3 teams from munster and leinster plus galway plus the winners of the previous years new second teir go into two groups round robin the top two proceed to the LMcC semis while the bottom two from the groups go into the second tier quater finals for the remainder of the championship.

While the Liam McCarthy has been going on the second teir's 2 groups will have been playing off also to decide two group winners. The groups will be made up of Antrim, 3rd tier winners (carlow) plus two losing quater finalists from Leinster and one from Munster (two groups of three) with the top two from each group proceeding to the quarters to play Liam McCarthy standard opposition. The final of this should be played in croker alongside the u21 and minor B finals.

This will give enough games and competitive games to the top teams plus those sitting in between such as Antrim, Offaly, Clare, Laois etc. This will also make the liam mc carthy far more competitive again with the super 8 Liam McCarthy.

I would change the third tier to consist of 6 Teams two groups of three for example Antrim (if they are relegated), Down and Carlow then Derry, Westmeath and Mayo top two from each play semi finals. No more of teams such as wicklow getting annihalated every game, no disrespect to wicklow intended but realistically what did they learn from this year in the CRC.

Although this would create an extra tier it would give the extra required games to Carlow, Antrim, Laois etc that is required against the big dogs to get up their level.

How ever until at minor and u16 level we have an all ireland round robin series then its pointless. At minor and u16 we need three divisions round robin which again will give the required games with it be three games of what ever it would be better than the current format. The minor and u16 finals should all be played on one day at one venue after this.

Congratulations to Tyrone, Meath and Carlow on their victories the other day, i believe we in the gaa take days like this for granted this day needs promoted more and would suit being moved around the venues for game promotion such as McHale park, Clones, Fitzgerald, i know the teams want a big day out but it would promote hurling in these areas and create a better atmosphere.

Saw your proposal before NSG - much better than anything out there.

NSG would you say that maybe the problem with counties such as Antrim,Laois and Carlow is that they don't have enough youngsters playing hurling at underage level and in the schools to be able to support a top Liam McCarthy team.

Clash

Hurling in under age antrim has never been stronger and Carlow IT have been very strong for a long time in colleges hurling.

I believe that the key is under age and schools for long term does this mean Antrim, Laois, Carlow, Westmeath, Wexford and Offaly (if they continue their recent trend) should just forget about the current generation of seniors? No the format needs sorted for now not a format that will work in ten/twenty years.

Not being cheeky clash but its this mentality that we and laois etc should just do without until we sort oourselves out, we need to show leadership through croke park if we put antrim into a format such as the one ive talked about this will lead them to aspire to be liam mc carthy level, nothing else.

How ever until at minor and u16 level we have an all ireland round robin series then its pointless. At minor and u16 we need three divisions round robin which again will give the required games with it be three games of what ever it would be better than the current format. The minor and u16 finals should all be played on one day at one venue after this.


This is the in Leinster we have a round robin in hurling and football (not near as bad this year as in years gone out).
It make a F**king disgrace of the minor champ in Wexford.
You were picked last year, due to the fact this champ is run off early March etc - Leaving Cert, so where are you going to get time to run club champ, also what about the colleges they are using this time to play.
Sorry the u16 is a total non- runner as well.
you are better of getting the champs up and running in each county for kids rather than this overblown CRAP of having U16 round robin all ireland champs.
Three points from this
1 Who is to say U16 will make a minor, they develop more with there club and playing games than all this over rated training s**t.
2 Look at the disruption college games have on club champs (underage), now you want to increase the number of games these elite few will play
3 Player burnout

I am/was heavily invovled with development squads etc they have there uses but not to stop a county champ, players develop at different rates and to start holding up U16 champs for All Ireland glory - and YES it would happen is pointless, because every manager looks for the glory not just the kids.
As the saying goes your worse U12 can be your senior player, maybe he was small for his age, slow developer etc etc but under your proposal the amount of game time he will now get is further reduced due to this additional quest for county glory.

Play the Leinster and Munster provinical in April & May
When do you propose we play our club champs.

Sorry NSG I know your looking for a better champ but I ask the question do more games mean better quality, hasn't in either code it has meant more one sided games more s**t games etc etc
More games means the cream always rises to the top ie the big guns will always be there the chances of Antrim having a yeat like '89-a figments of all our imaginations. (It will be a long time before Wexford repeat '96 as well)

The honest solution
Pure and Simple KNOCKOUT champ.
3 aspects
Big boys can eliminate each other
Small guys get an upset with real value, Antrim beat KK- they are gone- everyone can have an off day (KK possibly are the exception at the present moment)
Counties get to concentrate on there own champs, get them structured right get players playing - players develop and stronger county team, it follows better champ.

I know I hark on about the club the whole time but it is totally been squeezed by all these proposals that I personally think will kill the game.
Junior B final = U12 final = All Ireland ( ask anyone who played in one).
It is those U12's that you want to see in county colours in Sept in 8-10 years time

Bottom line is Jim that the club thing has been at the forfront for what 125 years now, doesnt seem to have been as successful in Antrim as it has in Wexford,as our clubs can pretty much mix it with 95% of clubs from outside Antrim but the county side still cant.

The thing is that the club scene holds the county scene back and vice versa, the county scene is vital to generating the funds to keep up at grass roots level with other sports. I believe that club leagues need played with out the elite 25 on the county panel I also believe that the club championship can be run off during september and october therefore allowing the clubs to have their elite players back for championship, although this needs to be a directive from the boys at the top.

As for U16 and Minor why is it that you dont have faith there training away with development squads already the problem begins that we only need them at u16 and minor level scrap u21 and u14 also the daft odd age groups ie u17 at county level. The colleges should be playing their games post october and pre st patricks day which keeps away from exams and a couple of months at school preparation from the start of the year. U16 and Minors should not be stopped training with their club and their county training should be run off once a fort night, with the development squads never having fixtures which clash with exams or club championship fixtures.

These problems with my system that you have risen i hope i have addressed I understand that no one likes change but county and club scene need to work to the max hand in hand and be successful, every top level sport in the world has its mismatches but it also has its underdog days, and its important that our youngsters have more days in the big league to aspire to as its them days that will be our competition to use when the rugby clubs, english soccer clubs and aussie rules clubs come to poach our players away and we Jimmy who the club spent a mamoth amount of time and effort on his development walks away as wexford or antrim havent won their one match in the lime light in 22 years!!!!!

I can see where your coming from but still think but shoving the club championship into two months won't work.

Few points first
1 Fair play you have thught this out and have to be appualded for it
2 I agree (and it is the case in all counties) clubs play league games without there county players.
3 The county scene holds back the club scene and at present the county scene holds back the county scene.
4 . scrapping the U14 level disagree with it gives kids an honour of wearing the county jersey - what is the nor with development squads the have to be 14,15,16,17 in that year unlike minor so between 30-50 every year get to wear a county jersey.

Why you may ask is this any good I will give you an example,
one year a while back we were bringing a development squad together but ended up a few places short so I asked a few from my own club to fill the missing places (not looking to get them on board but to have a game) . i ended up keeping 3 of them who at the time I wouldn't of had but the gave the commitment etcand had good attitude. The lift been on the squad has given them is to be seen in them playing senior for the club now and possibly Wexford in a year or two.
sorry this thing of all out glory is the main reason we are in this mess.
By adding another All-Ireland to the mix is not going to help but in my opinion hinder progree becauseyour U-16 team will be made up od 14,15 & 16 year olds automaticallt depriving at least 100 odd kids the chance to wear the county jersey.
Pride and confidence is so important to a players development to even think of limiting that is wrong also they rub of on others so it is a win win situation.

i haven't come up with anything new or a thought provoking as you have and I acknowledge we need to get the finger out but I will quote you on one thing you said
that no one likes change but county and club scene need to work to the max hand in hand and be successful, every top level sport in the world has its mismatches but it also has its underdog days, and its important that our youngsters have more days in the big league to aspire to
Getting the structures correct would be a good change for a start
have a predefined season-that is most clubs biggest problem when are we out next.
the club scene is only be paid a token gesture for the last 10 odd years as you rightly have pointed out the money is in the intercounty scene.
Still believe in a straight knock system and NOT shafting the clubs and pushing them to the arse end of the calender.
Bu going to U16 or U17 I believe you arre really heading to burnout fast.
I think u21 is the better of two evils again only my humble opinion.

I am not agaainst change but I am against change just for the sake of it without all sides been seen through

What if Jim then we run with say the old format and the way it works is knock out only with only provincial winners and beaten provincial champs going into the semis, the rest go into another knock out competition, this would be a open draw knock out consisting of 8 teams starting at the quarter final stage, this way no round robin games and every game counts, knocked out of the Liam McCarthy cup then you go into the sheild youd be talking 4 games max if you are successful at the top or the second tier plus everyone has a chance in the top tier.

This could be replicated at minor and u16 easily and like i say i think this could be run off very easily with every team playing a max of 4 games. Play the NHL during October November also meaning it is over before the start of county league and in the case of your own county championship campiagns in March/April.

I know im harping on but i genuinely believe we need to change big time because if we dont hurling will die standing up, its not change for the sake of change but change required to sell our sport to the young. I also believe that this format will make a more attractive transition for counties coming up from the CRC so that its not going to be BAM your in out and into the relegation playoffs against cork to see if your going down again, how well would that do for hurling in Carlow. We have to consider the 32 counties with regards hurling now Jim not just the top 12/10/8 no what i mean?

Sorry Jim just to quote you from another topic of mine, "success does bread success".

The double knock out format i have introduced above gives clubs a chance brings back the old championship format and the likes of Antrim/Laois/Wexford/Offaly a chance to refind the winning feeling that will be required if we are to win the big dog.

No i agree with your principle on the issue i stated that earlier on. This format is something I would buy into I think on first glace.
Now here's the but I still don't see the need for an U16 All Ireland.
Players should be concentrating on development up to and including this age not winning all irelands.
Point of proof even college competion only goes to provinical because it is enough.
you again are 100% correct in that we need to promote it for the young and in 32 counties not 10/12 etc.
Cork do it right the have no competitons until U14 we in Wexford start the do or die at 8 ( for feck sake bend on the ball, get the f**kin' thing out of there etc) who has has more success!!.


To save our games it is quality required not quantity (something I did last nite).
Quality requires a few different components but one thing is not an overdose of games/training- ever wonder why most county players (especially subs) at club matches don't stand out and you say "how can that eegit be on the county team"

Reason they are training for 6-7 months and what are the playing nothing club county etc. really think this would happen in that U16 area managers (not all) will live through players if they think there is some glory at the end of the rainbow and 14/15/16 is too young for that s**t.

But reduce the number of games- hurling and football, all we are doing is playing games for the sake playing games (Sure aren't they training for 35 months of the year for only one game!!! we can't have that, under the new quidelines they should only be together from Jan 1st -right as if thats happening it is in Wexford but thats because our county board want to save money)
Things not thought out clearly present relgation battle is a prime example (it will never be played- but club games will be held up for the next 3 or so weeks in these 4 counties until this issued is "resolved"- fair play to Laois for feckin up the short sighted feckers who voted this in our county boards).

NSG to finish amnid all my ramblings (i am a hoor for it) I agree with senior end of business but leave the underage be, enough cutthroat there winning club title all lrelands and you will have more retirments at 17 witha celtic cross in one pocket and a naggon in another!

North Side Gael wrote:Sorry Jim just to quote you from another topic of mine, "success does bread success".

The double knock out format i have introduced above gives clubs a chance brings back the old championship format and the likes of Antrim/Laois/Wexford/Offaly a chance to refind the winning feeling that will be required if we are to win the big dog.

Valid point always the case when your been a good boy it comes back to bite ya.
No wonder noone ever getd to bit Loyal!!!!!!!