Another New Hurling Format Idea

Liam McCarthy 10 teams - Kilkenny Galway Dublin Offaly Wexford Cork Tipp Lim Clare and Waterford Same format as present but also relegation of one team

New Tier Cup - 6 Teams - Antrim Laois Carlow WM London and Kerry: 2 groups of three, top from each group go to semis along with best runner up and Christy ring winners, winners gain place in last round qualifiers in Laim McCarthy, and also gain a place in province of relegated team in following years Liam Mc Cup, last placed teams go into relegation play off.

CRC - 6 Teams - Down Wicklow Derry Meath Armagh Kildare: 2 groups of three top two from each group go to semis, cup winners go to semis of new tier cup bottom two relegation play off.

NRC - 6 teams Mayo Rossies Sligo Louth Tyrone Donegal: 2 groups 3 again with top two going to semi finals.

LMC - 6 Teams Ferm, Longf, Leitrim, Cavan, Warw, Monaghan same as NRC

This format may seem silly to some people but the way i see it, by linking the top 3 tiers in the slimest of fashions i have given 22 counties the opportunity to play Laim McCarthy at the start of the year, when was the last time 22 counties had the chance to play Laim McCarthy hurling in the same year.

This format also includes competitiveness all year maybe bar one game and who knows on the day.

I create these based on views in the media from the different counties.

Thoughts?

Another brilliant idea NSG!

My thoughts would be .......zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

A new tier is needed NSG as the jump for the likes of Laois, Carlow, WM, London and Kerry is simply too great for them. Kerry turned down the chance to go up this season to the McCarthy Cup and their decision was justified. London have just had "back to back" victories and have yet to make a decision.

Something like this would be good for those that are not quite good enough for the McCarthy and too good for CRC.

Overall, i feel the tiered systems are now doing a good job. Sides like Tyrone, Fermanagh etc are really moving forward in hurling, and while some people who find their counties in the elite group couldn't care less about the lower tiers, they are the people who fight hard to keep the sport alive in their areas.

bald eagle wrote:A new tier is needed NSG as the jump for the likes of Laois, Carlow, WM, London and Kerry is simply too great for them. Kerry turned down the chance to go up this season to the McCarthy Cup and their decision was justified. London have just had "back to back" victories and have yet to make a decision.

Something like this would be good for those that are not quite good enough for the McCarthy and too good for CRC.

Overall, i feel the tiered systems are now doing a good job. Sides like Tyrone, Fermanagh etc are really moving forward in hurling, and while some people who find their counties in the elite group couldn't care less about the lower tiers, they are the people who fight hard to keep the sport alive in their areas.

I think now is the perfect time to bring it in, as Antrim will see themselves as just being behind wexford/offaly while they will see Laois/Carlow/westmeath as being on par, and the likes of London/Kerry fancying a pop at anyone of those counties in june.

It would not be hard to include the winner of the new tier in the last round of the LMCC qualifiers either, and by allowing the CRC winners a place in the semis of the new tier in my idea, you would be saying to 22 counties at the start of the year, there is the laim mc carthy cup go get it. I mean 22 counties, id be pretty sure that would never have been done.

A new tier is probably not needed ive decided after debating with a Tipp man of all people on Another fora, the likes of Derry as bald eagle will know should have scalped both London and Wicklow in this years CRC.

My ideais that the original 6 teams drop to CRC, this will make a 12 team comp, 4 x groups 3, top two go to quarter finals, the winner of the cup gets promotion to Liam McCarthy with a team coming down, they also gain a place in the last round of the current years Laim McCarthy qualifiers. This format would make wexford v offaly a very exciting fixture once more, it would also cut down on hammerings.

The problem is not the format.

The problem is the weaker counties attitude to hurling.

Afraid it's always going to be the same three or four Munster counties plus Kilkenny and Galway with the occasional spark from a Dublin or an Offaly - until the attitude changes.

In Meath, there are a few people who work very hard to raise the status of hurling but it's a cultural thing really - many senior figures in the county just don't want to know.

The answer might be to let these counties ignore hurling altogether and make a push to raise the profile of football in your Kilkennys and your Tipperarys. This in turn would have a negative effect on hurling leading to a more competitive hurling championship.

Bottom line royal, is if you provide a plat form for these counties who are being ignored by their football counter parts, then they will grow naturally.

I still feel the need is there, we now face the prospects that the group that i have named includes, offaly and Wexford.

I have no hesitation in saying that a second tier with Antrim, Wex, Offaly, Laois, Wm and Carlow with the winners gaining a place in the semi final of Leinster maybe the way forward, it will provide comepetitive games and Silverware, and the allowance of Liam McCarthy hurling, with the winner being promoted. The following year to be replaced by someone relegated.

Its more a case of reality check for some teams, including my own, Laois, Wexford and Offaly.

Said it before these hammerings are not good for hurling, would be different if it wasnt the same counties on the recieving end, this year laois have taken two almighty beatings and west meath one hammering and one easy beating, carlow on the other hand lost easy enough to laois.

The time is here for the new tier!

two groups of four, top two from each group into semis, 3rd place from each group to christy ring semis, bottom two in relegation place off, winners of competition play in last round of qualifiers and final of new tier is played before first round qualfier game.

two groups

Antrim
Carlow
Kerry
Down

Laois
Westmeath
London
Wicklow

This would create an elite top ten with no more 20 plus victories, what happened to dublin was freak. The next 8 get to compete with one another and the top team get promotion and a chance to play in laim mc carthy that year also. 1st year no relegation and promotion at the descretion of the winners, with christy ring winners gaining promotion automatically.

How can hammerings like this do any good for hurling? Talk of apathy or its two many competitions just dont role with me, certain counties are doing great work, then the kids in these counties see annihalations and its over for them, they dont only lose games the lose the imagination of the child.

Telling ye lads time is nigh for this, Antrim, Laois, Carlow, Wm, London and prob Kerry are a new tier of teams, each one knows exactly who they have a chance of beating and what games are a forgone conclusion.

No one will learn from the antrim game the other day, nor the two laois games or wm v galway, and the close calls such as carlow could have predicted their margin v wexford 10 times over!

Predictable competition is grand at the top as the cream will always rise, but predictable at the bottom leads to demoralisation across a county.

I see someone is listening, Laim O neill in the indo, calling for a debate on hurling format after trouncings and foregone conclusions in this years championship, these will get worse next year with london coming up too.

Hurling: The 21st Century version of Betamax.

Thomas Clarke wrote:Hurling: The 21st Century version of Betamax.

They say Betamax was much better than VHS

OMAR wrote:

Thomas Clarke wrote:Hurling: The 21st Century version of Betamax.

They say Betamax was much better than VHS

Yes, so I'm told, but, ultimately, the majority of people weren't interested in it, which is a shame.

Bit more like hurling is the dvd and football is the vhs, much better quality involved.

North Side Gael wrote:Bit more like hurling is the dvd and football is the vhs, much better quality involved.

I wasn't debating the quality, but there is no denying that the sport is struggling badly, and will continue to do so under the current format..

Thomas Clarke wrote:

North Side Gael wrote:Bit more like hurling is the dvd and football is the vhs, much better quality involved.

I wasn't debating the quality, but there is no denying that the sport is struggling badly, and will continue to do so under the current format..

Yeah i agree the current format is allowing hurling to die and were watching it happen.

This filters down though, as i feel if at minor antrim regulary had to play the dubs or cats their minors could improve and our schools. People will say galway bottom line is galway border tipp kids go to school together play challenges against one another, Antrim dont have that.

We need to find a way at minor, u16 and schools where Antrim play top schools from accross the board, maybe a county Antrim schools team that enters the A grade? Same at university i played for st marys in ryan cup but st marys queens and jordanstown enter an amalgamated team again it will filter quality into county teams.

North Side Gael wrote:

Thomas Clarke wrote:

North Side Gael wrote:Bit more like hurling is the dvd and football is the vhs, much better quality involved.

I wasn't debating the quality, but there is no denying that the sport is struggling badly, and will continue to do so under the current format..

We need to find a way at minor, u16 and schools where Antrim play top schools from accross the board, maybe a county Antrim schools team that enters the A grade?

You need to forget about Antrim, and think about an amalgamated Ulster team. Why would any talented athlete from Tyrone, Armagh, Derry, Down, Fermanagh, Cavan, Monaghan, or Donegal take up hurling over football? Nevermind that they will never play in an AI final, their chances of even winning an Ulster title are slim. Top athletes in the vast majority of counties in Ireland will almost always pick football (or other sports) over hurling, as it gives them a chance of success.

Hurling will continue to decline until people stop trying to improve the Tyrone/Monaghan/Armagh hurling teams, and start trying to improve the quality of hurlers within those counties, irrespective of who they end up representing.

Even the ulster team ends up with 4/5 boys from other counties and the rest antrim though, Antrim have the numbers and teams probably even players but structures and mind sets are another thing.

Id be in favour of a rest of ulster team, rest of leinster and rest of connaught and munster team competing with Antrim, Laois, Carlow, Westmeath, London.

Run of the christy ring etc as normal then july start the 2nd tier.

Antrim v RO Leinster
Carlow v RO Ulster
Laois V RO C&M
Westmeath v London

You could not out right say who would win that before it starts, would be a good competition, but again replication needs to filter to minor/u16.

If all you aim to do, is give a Tyrone lad the hope that one day he will be playing for a side who might be on a par with Laois, forget it.

Most athletic young lads in Tyrone, Mayo, Meath or Armagh will not lift a hurl if all they can aspire to is playing against Laois in front of 1,500 people. You have to give them the dream of playing in a major final in front of 80,000. Then hurling may have a chance of becoming their sport of choice.

Thomas Clarke wrote:If all you aim to do, is give a Tyrone lad the hope that one day he will be playing for a side who might be on a par with Laois, forget it.

Most athletic young lads in Tyrone, Mayo, Meath or Armagh will not lift a hurl if all they can aspire to is playing against Laois in front of 1,500 people. You have to give them the dream of playing in a major final in front of 80,000. Then hurling may have a chance of becoming their sport of choice.

You know yourself tc you have to start somewhere and a rest of ulster team playing out of Armagh in front of 2000 people in march better than healy park in front of 100. A whole ulster team would have taken the same beating from limerick last week, but antrim i think would face a challenge to be the main ulster team if a combined team challenged them and did it properly.

A second tier with them teams will lead to improvement in all counties, and a real chance of silver and the step up to liam mc carthy would inspire. Ive a lot of confidence in ulster hurling outside antrim but its split badly with 3 clubs in this county 4 in that one, combine the lot.

Seen ollie baker giving off about the current format due to lack of summer games. Another knockout chance after 2 games may be a bit much to ask and another crack would be rewarding losing as ollie rightly said.

Maybe with 14 teams, get the provincial sytem going earlier, with more double headers so that it goes quicker, 2 provincial champions to semis, the remaining 12 teams go into four groups of 3 with two matches each all this in round one, round two then is top two teams in each group in knock out round, round 3 then is quarter finals.

Teams finishing at bottom of each group go to relagation play off group of four, each team plays each other once, this is no different to other sports where the split the domestic league on half.

Some will say about club affairs however a beaten finalist has the same amount of games in this format as what a leinster or ulster preliminary round football team would have to play should they be beaten in a provincial final and go on to win.

This callender offers 17 free sundays and more for some counties, not to mention mid week games clubs can play. It offers club teams a full club season, it offers counties a minimum of 5 league games and 6 championship games hopefully more if successful.

Jan pre season

Feb Last 3 rounds of NHL

March NHL Finals and Club only 4 club sundays

April Club only 4 club sundays

may - mid june - provincial (league ends mid april and could end earlier to keep all april free for club activity) 3/4 games some counties only getting one allowing for more club activity - average 2 free sundays

End June - end july - round 1&2 - 3 games for every county including the start of relegation group this allows 2 free sundays for club.

Aug - quarters and semis plus last two group games for relegation group - 2 free sundays

Sept final and relegation final 3 free sundays

October Prov club championship

November 1st two rounds on NHL

DEC OFF