Teams that bombed!

**Jayo Cluxton** Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:13 am

This year - so far - a number of counties have bombed.

Monaghan - completely rudderless. Over the last few years Monaghan would have been a team to avoid. Not the most aesthetic to watch but a team that rang Kerry close a couple of times but this year have been woeful. A poor showing v Tyrone followed by a horrible defeat in Tullamore. No Freemans, no pattern, no hope.

Louth - Genuine Leinster champs of 2010 but never got going this year. Beaten by Carlow and then hammered by an ordinary Meath outfit. Was Peter's election the downfall? Paddy K nothing like last year like so many team mates. Where did it all go wrong?

Sligo - Unlucky to lose to Roscommon last year and then ambushed by a subsequently poor Leitrim side - and at home. Good chance to atone in Aughrim but got beaten by an average Wicklow side. Walsh should have go out methinks.

Westmeath - Showed some signs in the League but another woeful outing.

Cavan -Shocking stuff .. again.

Sides about to bomb - Down, Meath and maybe Tyrone affraid

**Grenvile** Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:31 am

Just as well Longford beat us.. The next round is the same weekend as Oxegen, we might not have been able to field a team... Embarassed

**Jayo Cluxton** Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:33 am

Jonsmith wrote:Just as well Longford beat us.. The next round is the same weekend as Oxegen, we might not have been able to field a team...

Hmmmm - and here's me thinking lack of Oxygen might be the problem .... Laughing

**Grenvile** Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:40 am

There's a list of problem as long as your arm Jayo but I don't think lack of Oxygen is one! Jaysus... That's the lowest I've ever stooped to find a positive... Sad

**Royal_Girl2k9** Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:42 am

Jonsmith wrote:There's a list of problem as long as your arm Jayo but I don't think lack of Oxygen is one! Jaysus... That's the lowest I've ever stooped to find a positive...

Don't worry JS it's not as bad as it seems. Longford aren't even a bad outfit. Ye will just need a couple of years to blood in new players and find ones who really want to play for the county. Make them fight for jerseys.

**Grenvile** Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:04 am

I wish I shared your optimism RG.. I could go on for a week writing about our problems. But if next year yields anything more than a poor League Campaign, fighting relegation and possibly relegated, and an early and tame exit from the Championship, I will be shocked.

**Royal_Girl2k9** Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:09 am

Jonsmith wrote:I wish I shared your optimism RG.. I could go on for a week writing about our problems. But if next year yields anything more than a poor League Campaign, fighting relegation and possibly relegated, and an early and tame exit from the Championship, I will be shocked.

Rome wasn't build in a day. Yous should work on improving results, even if they aren't world beating scores just imrpove the stats. Let the players know they are imrpoving. Use examples like Roscommon to show what teams coming from nowhere can go (Wexford 2008 also).

**Loyal2TheRoyal** Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:36 am

Jayo Cluxton wrote:Louth - Genuine Leinster champs of 2010 but never got going this year. Beaten by Carlow and then hammered by an ordinary Meath outfit. Was Peter's election the downfall? Paddy K nothing like last year like so many team mates. Where did it all go wrong?

A team like Louth are not going to get many chances to make the breakthrough.

What happened last year was a very cruel ending to what was probably a huge effort from the players.

I suspect a lot of them became very disillusioned with the game after, and found it impossible to come back and make the same effort again.

They did win Division 3 but I'd be worried they might be coming straight back down again.

As for Paddy Keenan, he never lost any of it. He tried hard against Meath but there's only so much one player can do when the rest of his team-mates aren't helping. The way he dispatched the penalty shows that he's still very much the main man in Louth and in my opinion, the very best midfielder at least in Leinster, maybe Ireland.

**Loyal2TheRoyal** Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:56 am

Royal_Girl2k9 wrote:
Jonsmith wrote:I wish I shared your optimism RG.. I could go on for a week writing about our problems. But if next year yields anything more than a poor League Campaign, fighting relegation and possibly relegated, and an early and tame exit from the Championship, I will be shocked.

Rome wasn't build in a day. Yous should work on improving results, even if they aren't world beating scores just imrpove the stats. Let the players know they are imrpoving. Use examples like Roscommon to show what teams coming from nowhere can go (Wexford 2008 also).

The problem with Cavan is that they are in the exact same place now as they have been at the end of their last ten championships.

What I will say is that they do have some semi-talented players, e.g. Givney, Keating, Lyng, Pierson, Jelly, Cullivan and R. Flanagan but the application of some is questionable. You don't want to say these lads are happy to lose, but how much do they want to win?

It's not a case of the changing the culture of a county - in Cavan's case that would take generations - but changing the cultured lifestyle that goes with being a Cavan footballer might suffice. The idea that Keating, Dunne and Mackey were able to work their way back up the pecking order after the Oxygen debacle would sound ludicrous in other counties but it was allowed to happen in Cavan. Same goes for the sub full-back that Jonsmith talked about before. A few strong personalities in the dressing room would be a help. Cavan might not be a bad place for a former Tyrone or Armagh footballer starting out his management career. I don't think Hyland or Andrews are able to discipline the lads whereas a McGeeney type character would quickly sort the committed from the not so committed and then work with the ones he has, to make a team who are going to work harder for the Cavan jersey. He would also find a way to get the maximum from those with some ability. Then, Cavan might start winning 2-3 championship games in a season.

**redhandman** Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:15 pm

Loyal2TheRoyal wrote:
Royal_Girl2k9 wrote:
Jonsmith wrote:I wish I shared your optimism RG.. I could go on for a week writing about our problems. But if next year yields anything more than a poor League Campaign, fighting relegation and possibly relegated, and an early and tame exit from the Championship, I will be shocked.

Rome wasn't build in a day. Yous should work on improving results, even if they aren't world beating scores just imrpove the stats. Let the players know they are imrpoving. Use examples like Roscommon to show what teams coming from nowhere can go (Wexford 2008 also).

The problem with Cavan is that they are in the exact same place now as they have been at the end of their last ten championships.

never mind getting KPMG to hire them a manager or looking for resolutions L2TR is the man for the job .

What I will say is that they do have some semi-talented players, e.g. Givney, Keating, Lyng, Pierson, Jelly, Cullivan and R. Flanagan but the application of some is questionable. You don't want to say these lads are happy to lose, but how much do they want to win?

It's not a case of the changing the culture of a county - in Cavan's case that would take generations - but changing the cultured lifestyle that goes with being a Cavan footballer might suffice. The idea that Keating, Dunne and Mackey were able to work their way back up the pecking order after the Oxygen debacle would sound ludicrous in other counties but it was allowed to happen in Cavan. Same goes for the sub full-back that Jonsmith talked about before. A few strong personalities in the dressing room would be a help. Cavan might not be a bad place for a former Tyrone or Armagh footballer starting out his management career. I don't think Hyland or Andrews are able to discipline the lads whereas a McGeeney type character would quickly sort the committed from the not so committed and then work with the ones he has, to make a team who are going to work harder for the Cavan jersey. He would also find a way to get the maximum from those with some ability. Then, Cavan might start winning 2-3 championship games in a season.

**bluearmy1** Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:23 pm

Cavan's problem is that they have failed to turn talented youthful players into proven match winners, apart from Seanie Johnston there's no fear factor to them, and any player on quality opposition will feel that he will have the measure of his man. Cavan do produce some fine underage teams but in many ways they never seem to be able to become really effective senior players, they try hard but always fall short. They are a proud county and really need to sit down, go back over the past few years, see where their failings have been most pronounced and start ironing bad habits of past teams out of a strong underage rank coming through.

Monaghan, along with Derry, Down, and Donegal, are one of the four teams in Ulster who have really suffered from being just that little bit behind Tyrone (and to a lesser extent Armagh) over the past decade, in an extremely competitive province. In another province they might have made a few more provincial finals, maybe won a couple of titles and this really would have brought that mettle that only title-winning confidence can bring. Every year, Monaghan/Down/Derry/Donegal always seem ready to finally break the mould in Ulster but fall short against Tyrone and less recently Armagh. Being dumped out of the Ulster Championship when confidence is high is a massive blow and self-doubt is a hard thing to overcome in the dreary early stages of the qualifiers. But Armagh have now apparently fallen from their status and Tyrone have lost their swagger. A new name on the Anglo-Celt this year will bring fresh incentive to Ulster football.....the decade long hoodoo has been overcome and this will provide some inspiration for the other counties who have been knocking on the door for quite a while.

Monaghan are a quality side and I do not believe for a second that the Offally game is a true reflection of their ability but what I would say is they probably needed a decently long season to build confidence ahead of what could be the most open Ulster Championship we have seen in years. Same goes for us! Ulster is going to be even tougher now if Derry or Donegal can shake off their shackles!

**Thomas Clarke** Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:29 pm

bluearmy1 wrote:
Monaghan, along with Derry, Down, and Donegal, are one of the four teams in Ulster who have really suffered from being just that little bit behind Tyrone (and to a lesser extent Armagh) over the past decade, in an extremely competitive province.

They were a million miles behind both of them. Are you seriously saying that, for the last decade, Down (or any of the others) were 'just that little bit' behind Tyrone?

Armagh also wiped the floor with all of those sides from 1999-2007. Let's not go rewriting history. Monaghan (2006-2009) and Donegal (2002-2005) were decent sides, among the top 8 in the country, but they were never close to either Tyrone or Armagh. Neither Down nor Derry were on the same planet.

**scoopmine** Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:59 pm

After the wknd still trying to find some positives about the senior and reading up peoples opinions. Its been depressing!

**Grenvile** Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:07 pm

Loyal2TheRoyal wrote:

The problem with Cavan is that they are in the exact same place now as they have been at the end of their last ten championships.

What I will say is that they do have some semi-talented players, e.g. Givney, Keating, Lyng, Pierson, Jelly, Cullivan and R. Flanagan but the application of some is questionable. You don't want to say these lads are happy to lose, but how much do they want to win?

It's not a case of the changing the culture of a county - in Cavan's case that would take generations - but changing the cultured lifestyle that goes with being a Cavan footballer might suffice. The idea that Keating, Dunne and Mackey were able to work their way back up the pecking order after the Oxygen debacle would sound ludicrous in other counties but it was allowed to happen in Cavan. Same goes for the sub full-back that Jonsmith talked about before. A few strong personalities in the dressing room would be a help. Cavan might not be a bad place for a former Tyrone or Armagh footballer starting out his management career. I don't think Hyland or Andrews are able to discipline the lads whereas a McGeeney type character would quickly sort the committed from the not so committed and then work with the ones he has, to make a team who are going to work harder for the Cavan jersey. He would also find a way to get the maximum from those with some ability. Then, Cavan might start winning 2-3 championship games in a season.

Completely agree with this point. This young Cavan team, with lots of egos involved, I feel would progress best with an intelligent driven and tough young manager. Andrews, while he might have all the good intentions in the world and I don't believe is in the job for financial gain, may be a figure of fun and there is no fear or respect of him. When Carr left there was a lot of discussion on forums about trying to get Canavan, now he was never a realistic target but what about someone like McGrane for example?

It's academic at this point and I think Tom Reilly will stay the course now with Hyland and Andrews, at least for another year.

**bluearmy1** Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:16 pm

I think you have read a bit too much into me saying 'little bit behind' Thomas Clarke....I meant this more on a timescale basis than ability. Tyrone and Armagh emerged as the big Ulster forces when Down, Derry, and Donegal had seen the last of their great early 90s men. From then on in it was a matter of rebuilding a decent senior team in those counties and then having to get those teams on par with the exceptional Tyrone and Armagh teams who had been growing in confidence since the late 90s. So when Tyrone and Armagh became the the new forces in Ulster it was difficult for teams who were on the verge of being real contenders to get any sort of decent run in Ulster never mind winning it. Therefore you had teams with plenty of ability like Derry/Donegal/Down/Monaghan, all of whom are capable of reaching the latter stages of the Championship via the qualifiers and mixing it with the best, but they found it difficult to get that boost of confidence in Ulster, always made to feel second string to Tyrone and Armagh. So it got to the point where they were always looking to the less glamorous back-door for some sort of redemption. Monaghan is where this inferiority complex is most pronounced, I think they had an Ulster title in them but they just couldn't deal with the old hands of Tyrone. But as Tyrone start to age a bit the other Ulster teams are starting to have a bit more success which suggests to me that they were not a long way behind, always had the ability, but never the real belief. Without self-belief teams crumble.

**Thomas Clarke** Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:31 pm

I still wouldn't agree Bluearmy. Tyrone started to go downhill after 2005, and Armagh the same (albeit more rapidly, as they were older). It has taken the rest of Ulster that long to catch them, which shows just how far ahead they were.

**samin12** Tue Jun 28, 2011 5:46 pm

Jonsmith wrote:
Loyal2TheRoyal wrote:

The problem with Cavan is that they are in the exact same place now as they have been at the end of their last ten championships.

What I will say is that they do have some semi-talented players, e.g. Givney, Keating, Lyng, Pierson, Jelly, Cullivan and R. Flanagan but the application of some is questionable. You don't want to say these lads are happy to lose, but how much do they want to win?

It's not a case of the changing the culture of a county - in Cavan's case that would take generations - but changing the cultured lifestyle that goes with being a Cavan footballer might suffice. The idea that Keating, Dunne and Mackey were able to work their way back up the pecking order after the Oxygen debacle would sound ludicrous in other counties but it was allowed to happen in Cavan. Same goes for the sub full-back that Jonsmith talked about before. A few strong personalities in the dressing room would be a help. Cavan might not be a bad place for a former Tyrone or Armagh footballer starting out his management career. I don't think Hyland or Andrews are able to discipline the lads whereas a McGeeney type character would quickly sort the committed from the not so committed and then work with the ones he has, to make a team who are going to work harder for the Cavan jersey. He would also find a way to get the maximum from those with some ability. Then, Cavan might start winning 2-3 championship games in a season.

Completely agree with this point. This young Cavan team, with lots of egos involved, I feel would progress best with an intelligent driven and tough young manager. Andrews, while he might have all the good intentions in the world and I don't believe is in the job for financial gain, may be a figure of fun and there is no fear or respect of him. When Carr left there was a lot of discussion on forums about trying to get Canavan, now he was never a realistic target but what about someone like McGrane for example?

It's academic at this point and I think Tom Reilly will stay the course now with Hyland and Andrews, at least for another year.

I know Justin McNulty is now with Laois but i reckon he would have been a good man to take Cavan, think he won a championship managing Mullahorn? If what i said there is right (could be wrong) then he is bound to know alot of players both in that club and clubs he faced, i would think he would command alot of respect and get a better attitude from the players

**Jayo Cluxton** Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:16 am

Thomas Clarke wrote:I still wouldn't agree Bluearmy. Tyrone started to go downhill after 2005, and Armagh the same (albeit more rapidly, as they were older). It has taken the rest of Ulster that long to catch them, which shows just how far ahead they were.

How far ahead they were - or maybe how very poor the rest of Ulster was. Sure even Fermanagh nearly broke through.

**GAA-Fan** Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:21 am

Jayo Cluxton wrote:
Thomas Clarke wrote:I still wouldn't agree Bluearmy. Tyrone started to go downhill after 2005, and Armagh the same (albeit more rapidly, as they were older). It has taken the rest of Ulster that long to catch them, which shows just how far ahead they were.

How far ahead they were - or maybe how very poor the rest of Ulster was. Sure even Fermanagh nearly broke through.

And Leinster was better?

**patrique** Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:45 am

The very idea that Cavan might be a good place for "an Armagh or Tyrone footballer to start in management" shows how far Cavan have fallen.

When I watched that Cavan V Offaly replay in 1969, after Cavan had won a thrilling Ulster final at Casement Park, Armagh and Tyrone had won about half the number of Ulster titles as.....Antrim, and that was between them.

Long way to fall from that, long way back.

**Grenvile** Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:06 am

patrique wrote:The very idea that Cavan might be a good place for "an Armagh or Tyrone footballer to start in management" shows how far Cavan have fallen.

When I watched that Cavan V Offaly replay in 1969, after Cavan had won a thrilling Ulster final at Casement Park, Armagh and Tyrone had won about half the number of Ulster titles as.....Antrim, and that was between them.

Long way to fall from that, long way back.

Our history is more or less irrelevant to us now.. The winning tradition is long gone and lost. If Cavan are to ever become great again it will take the same effort as it would for Longford or Fermanagh.. The best ex-players we have to coach our young lads have the grand total of ONE Ulster medal apiece..
From the Kings of Ulster to possibly the worst GAA County in Ireland (not even fielding a hurling team now).. I suppose the only comfort is there isn't much farther to fall.

**Thomas Clarke** Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:27 am

Jayo Cluxton wrote:
Thomas Clarke wrote:I still wouldn't agree Bluearmy. Tyrone started to go downhill after 2005, and Armagh the same (albeit more rapidly, as they were older). It has taken the rest of Ulster that long to catch them, which shows just how far ahead they were.

How far ahead they were - or maybe how very poor the rest of Ulster was. Sure even Fermanagh nearly broke through.

Fermanagh didn't nearly break through when either Tyrone or Armagh were at their peak, although they did make a couple of runs through the qualifiers. In fact, in 2003, Tyrone beat them twice, on both occasions by roughly 20 points.

Somehow, I'd have thought 4 all-irelands between them in 7 years, 3 National leagues and 12 Ulsters in a row, would have indicated that they were quite a bit stronger than a side like Fermanagh. Perhaps we have different ideas of what a good side is.

**Jayo Cluxton** Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:45 am

Thomas Clarke wrote:Somehow, I'd have thought 4 all-irelands between them in 7 years, 3 National leagues and 12 Ulsters in a row, would have indicated that they were quite a bit stronger than a side like Fermanagh. Perhaps we have different ideas of what a good side is.

Ah now TC I am not taking away from the National success enjoyed by Armagh and Tyrone -two very strong sides - the stats as above speak for themselves. I am pointing out that the rest of Ulster was weak for most of the Noughties - Down, Derry, Donegal all weak and Fermanagh and Antrim making Finals. And no Leinster wasn't strong either with only Dublin and sometimes Meath, Kildare less so or Wexford.

**Thomas Clarke** Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:42 am

That is a fairer comment Jayo. Donegal were quite good in the early part of the decade, but seemed to have a mental block when facing Armagh, while Fermanagh had a decent side from 2003-6. Monaghan were competitive for a few years too. But overall, there was no-one close to Tyrone or Armagh in Ulster for the guts of the decade.

**RMDrive** Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:34 pm

Thomas Clarke wrote:That is a fairer comment Jayo. Donegal were quite good in the early part of the decade, but seemed to have a mental block when facing Armagh, while Fermanagh had a decent side from 2003-6. Monaghan were competitive for a few years too. But overall, there was no-one close to Tyrone or Armagh in Ulster for the guts of the decade.

Yeah, can't disagree with anything posted here. We had a decent enough team but in 02-04-06 weren't able to take a very good Armagh team.

Sponsored content

Teams that bombed!

Teams that bombed!

Re: Teams that bombed!

Re: Teams that bombed!

Re: Teams that bombed!

Re: Teams that bombed!

Re: Teams that bombed!

Re: Teams that bombed!

Re: Teams that bombed!

Re: Teams that bombed!

Re: Teams that bombed!

Re: Teams that bombed!

Re: Teams that bombed!

Re: Teams that bombed!

Re: Teams that bombed!

Re: Teams that bombed!

Re: Teams that bombed!

Re: Teams that bombed!

Re: Teams that bombed!

Re: Teams that bombed!

Re: Teams that bombed!

Re: Teams that bombed!

Re: Teams that bombed!

Re: Teams that bombed!

Re: Teams that bombed!

Re: Teams that bombed!

Re: Teams that bombed!