If Dublin win the All-Ireland this year..........

how much credit would Paul Caffrey deserve?

With Ireland winning the Grand Slam at the weekend it got me thinking about managers and how a change in manger can have a profound effect on the fortunes of some teams. O' Sullivan gave 7 years to Ireland and got close to a Grand Slam a few times. Suddenly Declan Kidney rides into town and Ireland are Grand Slam Champions. This also happened Armagh in 2002 with Joe Kernan delivering the ultimate prize in gaelic football and only a year later Mickey Harte does the same for Tyrone.

I am interested to hear opinions on why this happens - is it a case that these guys predecessors just were not up to the job of winning championships or do previous managers deserve some of the credit for all the hard work and effort they gave to the cause?

Yes I have noticed this too. Thankfully Chelsea havent found that manager just yet

If Armagh kept the managers on rotation then we might have had another All Ireland, although Joe gave the team a winning mentality he never really changed the tactics until his last few years.

Its a little like Kerry, how many managers have they had over the past decade?

The same happened in mayo when mickey moran and john morisson took charge for the 06 season. Mayo's fortunes increased and they beat dublin with an amazing determination and team work. I think that the reason that teams sometimes improve under new managers is the fact that every player on the team know that they have to prove themselves to the new manager. They have to prove how well they can play the sport and how much committment they have to the team. Non-first team players see it as a new chance to show off to their new managers and get an opportunity to get on the starting 15. whereas the first team players know that they have to up the ante if they are to maintain their place on the starting line-up . Every player is doing their best and this results in an overall better team. That's my opinion on the matter

No sorry - I think this is chalk and cheese. Kidney certainly did something magic with the mentality and completely removed the Munster-Leinster problem which was obviously there - subconciously or not.

To me Pillar underachieved but if Giller delivers I will be up to his gaff the very next night with a large container of water and expect to be going home with a large quantity of chardonnay or merlot if ye get my drift!

Sorry JC I wasn't at the last meeting over the nickname we're giving Gilroy this year

Think Liam liked the sound of Gills, you're going with Gillers, I was thinking something unique like Tiny (since he's such a big bloke). Are we staying away from Gillo?

Jayo - i take your point about Kidney but would you not give O' Sullivan a fair bit of credit for the success for this years team.

And in the case of Armagh in 2002 - they had been kncoking on the door for a few years under the two Brians - big Joe takes over the next year with virtually the same panel of players and delivers and all-ireland. I understand players trying to impress a new manager and all that but how can one man take over as manager and make such a difference.

if Dublin did lift SAM this year you owuld sick as a dog if you were Pillar wouldnt you?

bocerty wrote:Jayo - i take your point about Kidney but would you not give O' Sullivan a fair bit of credit for the success for this years team.

And in the case of Armagh in 2002 - they had been kncoking on the door for a few years under the two Brians - big Joe takes over the next year with virtually the same panel of players and delivers and all-ireland. I understand players trying to impress a new manager and all that but how can one man take over as manager and make such a difference.

if Dublin did lift SAM this year you owuld sick as a dog if you were Pillar wouldnt you?

BOC, I am not knocking EO'S at all but the point is if he was in charge this year we would have finished about 5th. He had done all he could with the team and was regressing. There are the same players (largely) who bombed in the WC and last years 6N so whatever Kidney did he gets the credit. You could make the argument that EO'S ultimately under-achieved.

I think Pillar was tactically naive at times and that maybe a different man in charge, a rub of the green, concentration on things other than marching to the Hill etc could have seen Dublin sneak an All Ireland. But like EO'S we were beginning to regress. If Giller delivers (big ask and starting further back than 2 years ago!) - the credit will be all his with a mention for Pillar.

I am gonna call Gilroy - Silk - in honour of Rob Kilroy!

Oldies we all remember .......... The more things change or as they say in the country that is going to South Africa instead of us (get over it JC) ...... plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose ....

bocerty wrote:
And in the case of Armagh in 2002 - they had been kncoking on the door for a few years under the two Brians - big Joe takes over the next year with virtually the same panel of players and delivers and all-ireland. I understand players trying to impress a new manager and all that but how can one man take over as manager and make such a difference.

I actually think that the biggest difference for Armagh in 2002, much more than Kernan's arrival, was the emergence of a 19 yr old Ronan Clarke, and also Stevie McDonnell coming of age. McDonnell was very raw in 2000, and froze against Michael McCarthy in the semis, and but for that Armagh would probably have won the all-ireland that year, but over the next 2 years he matured into one of the best forwards in Ireland.

Clarke was a revelation in first season, dominating Chris Lawn in his first championship game, and then continuing until ultimately roasting Seamus Moynihan in the final.

In 2000 Armagh were a couple of class forwards away from being champions, but by 2002 they had found them. Kernan's wisest move as manager was to leave almost everything else the way he had found it.

Roll over its our turn this year yeooo!!!

There will be a new beaten 1/4 finalist for the first time in a few years