Best team I ever saw ......

Right - lets pick - position by position - the best team we ever saw! I will put up a thread for each position - you make your pitch for the best player you saw in that position. You can knock in and out of the threads arguing and counter- arguing. Next Friday - on the basis of nominations in the thread - we will poll the top 5 in each thread for each position. Will do hurling next. So get your thinking and reminiscing caps on!!!

Right all position up now so lets hear the case for your nominations. I expect nominations will span from about 1970 on for most. And don't go nominating just your own county men!!!! (Or province!!)

What's the criteria here Jayo? Are we going for players we have seen in our lifetimes, or players we have heard about or seen 2-3 minutes of highlights on TV? Just checking, as I've seen some names appear from the 60s, suggested by people who I'm pretty sure werent alive then.

If it is players we have heard of, then we may as well trot out the team of the millenium, and fit Canavan into it!

Thomas Clarke wrote:What's the criteria here Jayo? Are we going for players we have seen in our lifetimes, or players we have heard about or seen 2-3 minutes of highlights on TV? Just checking, as I've seen some names appear from the 60s, suggested by people who I'm pretty sure werent alive then.

If it is players we have heard of, then we may as well trot out the team of the millenium, and fit Canavan into it!

TC - It is intended as players you have actually witnessed. So I'd say in the main we are looking at mid 70s on. Some people may only look from 2003 on though! Only Boxty and Pat will reminisce about the 60s I reckon!

Jayo Cluxton wrote:

Thomas Clarke wrote:What's the criteria here Jayo? Are we going for players we have seen in our lifetimes, or players we have heard about or seen 2-3 minutes of highlights on TV? Just checking, as I've seen some names appear from the 60s, suggested by people who I'm pretty sure werent alive then.

If it is players we have heard of, then we may as well trot out the team of the millenium, and fit Canavan into it!

TC - It is intended as players you have actually witnessed. So I'd say in the main we are looking at mid 70s on. Some people may only look from 2003 on though! Only Boxty and Pat will reminisce about the 60s I reckon!

What about if you saw them on television does that count.

clash-of-da-ash wrote:
What about if you saw them on television does that count.

Ah its up to yerselves Clash. Personally I would like to think I have seen the guy play live a few times as well as TV before being able to make a fair judgment on him.

Some very impressive posts here - some great cases made - and a lot of silent people who know their stuff too! Join the debate please - otherwise we gonna have 15 Dubs!!!!!!!

A lot of Derry players nominated.

McKeever, Scullion, Downey, Tohill.

I wouldn't have expected anything less what with their one All-Ireland and all.

The Ulsters sticking together methinks, a bit of block-voting. The superpower that is Derry have a long way to go before they can be categorized as one of the traditionalists.

But what have Ulster actually given us? Only Canavan and McGuigan from Tyrone, McGeeney from Armagh, O'Neill, McCartan Snr + Jnr, Linden and Blaney from Down and then one or two Cavan heads from the 30s, 40s and 50s and maybe a token Donegal player.

Not a lot is it.

Thread is "have seen" so assuming majority of posters are <50 so wouldn't expect to see nominations from Down or Cavan teams of old.

In my post toddler lifetime to the names above you could add

B Mcguigan (assuming you meant frank), Martin Mchugh, Karl Lacey, Tony Boyle and my favourite Donegal player - Joyce McMullan also Paddy Bradley, Ger Cavlan, Cormac Macanallen, Conor Gormely, Ger Cavlan, Paul McGrane, Sean Cavanagh, Stevie McDonnell,Osin McConville,Plunkett Donaghy, Barry Owens,Nudie hughes, Eugene McKenna,

I still say Brian Mcguigan reminds me of me, good at the easy things, but certainly not in the Kevin McGourty league.

Loyal2TheRoyal wrote:A lot of Derry players nominated.

McKeever, Scullion, Downey, Tohill.

I wouldn't have expected anything less what with their one All-Ireland and all.

The Ulsters sticking together methinks, a bit of block-voting. The superpower that is Derry have a long way to go before they can be categorized as one of the traditionalists.

But what have Ulster actually given us? Only Canavan and McGuigan from Tyrone, McGeeney from Armagh, O'Neill, McCartan Snr + Jnr, Linden and Blaney from Down and then one or two Cavan heads from the 30s, 40s and 50s and maybe a token Donegal player.

Not a lot is it.

Your opinion Loyal, but what does the number of All Irelands have to do with how good a player is? If we were voting on that then surely Kerry would be the only nominees eh? Perhaps players don't need a glittering medal cabinet to be considered great? That said, i wish i had won the same medals as the Derry men you mentioned above!

I expected a bit of snobbery from some people on here against the lesser successful counties, and it's nice to see a bit of Ulster bashing coming into it too, classy work.

bald eagle wrote:

Loyal2TheRoyal wrote:A lot of Derry players nominated.

McKeever, Scullion, Downey, Tohill.

I wouldn't have expected anything less what with their one All-Ireland and all.

The Ulsters sticking together methinks, a bit of block-voting. The superpower that is Derry have a long way to go before they can be categorized as one of the traditionalists.

But what have Ulster actually given us? Only Canavan and McGuigan from Tyrone, McGeeney from Armagh, O'Neill, McCartan Snr + Jnr, Linden and Blaney from Down and then one or two Cavan heads from the 30s, 40s and 50s and maybe a token Donegal player.

Not a lot is it.

Your opinion Loyal, but what does the number of All Irelands have to do with how good a player is? If we were voting on that then surely Kerry would be the only nominees eh? Perhaps players don't need a glittering medal cabinet to be considered great? That said, i wish i had won the same medals as the Derry men you mentioned above!

I expected a bit of snobbery from some people on here against the lesser successful counties, and it's nice to see a bit of Ulster bashing coming into it too, classy work.

Exactly. If we were going by All-Irelands won, Patrique would be the team's goalkeeper and I'd be partnering Mick O'Connell in centre-field.

But there seems to a disportionate number of Derry players recieving nominations. Its a wonder ye never won another All-Ireland or ten with all these great players.

I wouldn't class Derry as a successful county. You are the Galway of Gaelic Football, can't agree on anything. Fighting with each other all the time, the same with Galway in the hurling.

Loyal2TheRoyal wrote:
Exactly. If we were going by All-Irelands won, Patrique would be the team's goalkeeper and I'd be partnering Mick O'Connell in centre-field.

But there seems to a disportionate number of Derry players recieving nominations. Its a wonder ye never won another All-Ireland or ten with all these great players.

I wouldn't class Derry as a successful county. You are the Galway of Gaelic Football, can't agree on anything. Fighting with each other all the time, the same with Galway in the hurling.

There's not a lot i can argue with there except that maybe Patrique does deserve to be the teams Goalkeeper, just a pity no-one ever saw him play!!

It's a well known fact that the Derry team of the 90s should have won more than one All Ireland and they probably would have had the Derry Co Board not taken the disgraceful decision to sack the late Eamon Coleman after the greatest match i ever saw in the Battle of Celtic Park in 1994 when we lost to the great Down team.

The side went on strike and Derry, in my view, never recovered from that. It's no doubt that they had the talent but as you said, we can't agree on anything and the reason for that is the arseholes that are in the Co Board seem to be fixed there with Gripfil and simply cannot be moved! I have spoken to many of the players from the panel that went on strike and while at the time they said they though they were doing the right thing, they all admitted to me that they regreted it now as they could and should have had more All Irelands, but should've never won the race eh?

I stated in my post that there would be snobbery against lesser successful counties, and i did count Derry in that!

The longest serving manager in Derry's Gaelic history has been Mickey Moran ('80-'84) followed by Eammon Coleman ('91-'94).

You can't ever leave a manager in place long enough to work with the one bunch of players. There's great footballers up there, I've seen them for the last two years but no manager ever gets the chance to work with the one group.

And exactly the same problem in Galway hurling. Cassidy's biggest task will be keeping his job. Even last year, after six months and a League Final, Derry people wanted his head. After six months, mid-table of Division 2 and a defeat by Dublin, Meath people rallied round EOB. Counties like Kerry, Offaly and Meath and the other traditionals laugh at a county like Derry, you are own worst enemy. Great footballers there but Cassidy will probably be gone by the end of the year and the new manager will bring a whole new bunch of great footballers and it will be the same story again.

Statistics i did know unfortunately and agreed again (we really must stop agreeing like this Loyal!!), there were even Derry posters on here that were looking Cassidy out, not me though!!!

While i agree that Derry are a managerial merry-go-round not too dissimilar to Heart of Midlothian, just what bearing does that have in the fact that Tony Scullion was a brilliant Full Back (even though it wasn't his first position), that Anthony Tohill was in his day the Best Midfielder in Ireland and that Henry Downey was a class act of a Centre Back? McKeever was a good corner back, i wouldn't have him as the best.

It seems that your views on Derry players lie much deeper than their ability, it looks like you don't feel that Derry players shouldn't be recognised for their talents simply on your views on the County as a whole.

I'm just pointing out the flaws in your set-up. Coming from a county who has perfected Gaelic Football, I just thought I'd give me thoughts.

Those players had to overcome a lot of adversity so maybe their place on the world's greatest team is even more of a guarantee. I'd have James Kielt at number twelve though.

Derry's biggest problem over the years has been a lack of quality forwards. Even in the early 90s, it was a brilliant defence and midfield that took them to the top. I mean, Dermot Heaney, Cassidy, Barton, Burns, McNicholl - some of them decent players, but none of them were scoring threats.

Even their best forwards in the last 20 years, Bradley, Brolly, Muldoon, Downey, Gormley, none of these guys have got a mention in the 'greatest team' debate we have been having over the last few days. They were good, but not the best around, and any manager can only work with what he is given.

You could say the same for Dublin & Mayo (and even Cork post-1990), and their lack of success in the last 20-30 years. Forwards win championship matches, which is why Galway, Meath, Tyrone, Kerry & Down all won multiple all-irelands in the last 20 years, and none of those others did.