Donegal v Tyrone USFC (1st Round)

Negative and ill-informed? I would prefer to say honest and without bias. Can you not accept other points of view?

In the context of winning the All Ireland which is the theme throughout my post Tyrone are also rans. Their League form has been shown for what it was - as has Mayo's and Donegal's who gave little regard to it.

Tyrone may well be better than 25 or so counties and will beat Fermanaghs and Antrims and Clares and Carlows all day long fair play to them. But they are not in the same bracket as Cork, Kerry, Mayo, Donegal or Dublin and won't be for a time to come.

I hope you continue to enjoy your good days and never suggested you shouldn't. If the discussion around Tyrone's future prospects in the Cship as is running on this thread is only open to Tyrone posters then I was not aware of this nor does it say. Perhaps I am ill-informed on this matter.

Dara O'Sé said in the paper today.

"To be honest, I was disappointed with Tyrone and with Mickey Harte for not having a Plan B when it came to Morgan. Everybody knew that Donegal were going to target him and you could see Michael Murphy and Rory Kavanagh giving him plenty as he went up to take his kicks. He should have been pre-armed with a plan for what to do if it went wrong. God knows Tyrone were the ones who opened the door on getting in fellas’ ears and inside their heads.

Tyrone should have had a fall-back for Morgan. Let him chip a quick one into somebody making a run, let somebody else come out and kick it, have Conor Gormley or one of the McMahons go in there and horse Murphy and Kavanagh out of it if they’re standing too close. The only thing I saw was one of the Tyrone players pacing off the distance between the ball and the Donegal players. Sure they were laughing at him!"

There is little like a Tyrone defeat to bring new blood to the site.

Still, it has long been said that this forum is too high-brow and elitist so, in the interests of balance, the new additions on this thread are very welcome.

i didnt think tyrone would come close t donegal before the game and my views where backed up during the game the reasons fo rthis was number 1 tyrone where looking to the goal keeper to kick all there long range frees! im sorry call me a traditionalist or what ever but if there is none of the out field players with the ability to kick a 45 free which can be taken from the hands if needs be then it should the level of skill on offer from that team! people talk about cluxton but in fairness to dublin most of their frees are taken out of the hand! it is usually only 45,s he takes!

second reason is this donegal team are a different class from anything that has come before in terms of preparation, dedication commitment and they are so well drilled and know exactly what is expected off them every second they are in the game! look at the difference between them last weekend! tyrone are up there in the top 6 teams in the country but they were so far away from being able to compete for 70 mins with donegal it shows the gulf in class that exists between the top 3/4 and the rest!

An element here of posters trying to justify their pre-game expectations.

Tyrone were impressive in defeat, Donegal weren't so impressive in victory. That's the story of this game.

I also think Tyrone have some passengers in their side, though probably not as many as people are inclined to believe.

It'll also be interesting to see if a team can get that second goal against Donegal (so far 4 goals conceded in 13 championship matches for Jim McGuinness - all scored later than the 59th minute). A first half goal might force them to rethink especially if it was accompanied by some points.

Goals conceded by Donegal championship 2011 - 2013
vs Cavan 2011, Michael Brennan, 68th minute
vs Cavan 2012, Niall McDermott, 59th minute
vs Kerry 2012, Kieran Donaghy, 66th minute
vs COrk 2012, Colm O'Neill, 70th minute

Loyal2TheRoyal wrote:An element here of posters trying to justify their pre-game expectations.

Tyrone were impressive in defeat, Donegal weren't so impressive in victory. That's the story of this game.

I also think Tyrone have some passengers in their side, though probably not as many as people are inclined to believe.

It'll also be interesting to see if a team can get that second goal against Donegal (so far 4 goals conceded in 13 championship matches for Jim McGuinness - all scored later than the 59th minute). A first half goal might force them to rethink especially if it was accompanied by some points.

Goals conceded by Donegal championship 2011 - 2013
vs Cavan 2011, Michael Brennan, 68th minute
vs Cavan 2012, Niall McDermott, 59th minute
vs Kerry 2012, Kieran Donaghy, 66th minute
vs COrk 2012, Colm O'Neill, 70th minute

would agree with some of ure points there loyal, it would be very interesting to see what would happen if a team could get a goal in the first half against them or indeed could open up a bit of a gap against them but the thing is the system that donegal operate at negates against any type of chance of that happening. every man knows his job and carries it out in a ferocious manner. Donegal where no where near there best and fitness wise they are some way off which is a little scary for all other teams. they are not unbeatable by any means but the level that a team would have to get to to beat them and the commitment and determination it would require leaves only a few teams in the country who will be able to have a proper go at it.

your point on tyrone is correct they have a few passengers which at this level leaves you with being able to have a go but thats all! you need 20 players with the right mentality, commitment, determination and skill level to be able to go toe to toe with doengal. dublin,cork mayo seem to be the only ones with the potential to achieve this

An element here of posters trying to justify their pre-game expectations.

Tyrone were impressive in defeat, Donegal weren't so impressive in victory. That's the story of this game.

I also think Tyrone have some passengers in their side, though probably not as many as people are inclined to believe.

It'll also be interesting to see if a team can get that second goal against Donegal (so far 4 goals conceded in 13 championship matches for Jim McGuinness - all scored later than the 59th minute). A first half goal might force them to rethink especially if it was accompanied by some points.

Goals conceded by Donegal championship 2011 - 2013
vs Cavan 2011, Michael Brennan, 68th minute
vs Cavan 2012, Niall McDermott, 59th minute
vs Kerry 2012, Kieran Donaghy, 66th minute
vs COrk 2012, Colm O'Neill, 70th minute

One of which was a penalty, another a square ball and the last one a push so Michael Brennan take a bow.
On your point the only time the donegal goal was under threat for any sustained period was against Tyrone first half in 2012. They created several chances by playing the ball to the left corner and drawing out 2/3 defenders creating a channel for an "inside left" bit like donnellys chance on Sunday but they did it four times in 15 minutes in 2012.

rich dublin wrote: tyrone where looking to the goal keeper to kick all there long range frees! im sorry call me a traditionalist or what ever but if there is none of the out field players with the ability to kick a 45 free which can be taken from the hands if needs be then it should the level of skill on offer from that team! people talk about cluxton but in fairness to dublin most of their frees are taken out of the hand! it is usually only 45,s he takes!

To be fair Rich, I think the best striker of a ball should hit the frees, whoever he is. Anything close is taken by SON (right) and Cavanagh (left). Morgan hits anything long, simply because the others don't have the distance.

Morgan has already received too much stick for his frees. As Joe Brolly pointed out (and it's rare that I quote him), Brian Stafford wasn't kicking point after point from 55m. A good return for Morgan's efforts would have been 3/6, especially given the conditions. The only one that he hit poorly was the last one, and if you watch again you'll see that his concentration was broken during his set up - he really should have replaced the ball, but he'll learn.

It's interesting that, after being built up as the new Cluxton for 4 weeks, there are those who now scoff at the same comparison. Well, I recall Cluxton costing Dublin a qualifier against Armagh 10 years ago with a stupid sending off, but he matured after that, as will Morgan.

Personally, I think Niall will be a superb keeper for Tyrone in the future. He is an outstanding shot-stopper, and will get better under the high ball with practice (he plays outfield for his club). I think he is arguably a more talented striker of a ball than Cluxton, and his technique and consistency will improve with time (would love to see Tyrone provide him with a dedicated kicking coach). The lad has bottle and ability, and he'll score a lot of points for Tyrone before the year is out.

i take ure point TC but if you look at it cavanagh at one point looked back to him when given a free inside the 45 and he declined to take it cavanagh had no confidence in taking it and missed it! he strikes the ball well no question but first of his silly gesturing to the home crowd was at least silly and immature and at most concentration breaking on his part! remember he missed every one of his kicks after that! considering donegals style of play tyrone badly needed those kicks and he didnt get them! i worry when a team becomes over reliant on a goalie to kick points if the lads out the field havent the range or bottle or ability there is something seriously lacking! plus if nothing eles it means u have literally no plan b!!

Murphy is as good a long range striker as any. He kicked 1 from 2, a 50 pc return.

OMAR wrote:Murphy is as good a long range striker as any. He kicked 1 from 2, a 50 pc return.

Agreed. His pointed free from 55m was outstanding.

rich dublin wrote: i worry when a team becomes over reliant on a goalie to kick points if the lads out the field havent the range or bottle or ability there is something seriously lacking! plus if nothing eles it means u have literally no plan b!!

And that is just it, Rich, we have no-one else from that distance that would even be worth trying. Outside 45m, it's Morgan or a short give and go.

Even further in, O'Neill and Cavanagh are ok, but neither of them would be Canavan-eque when it comes to bottle or reliability. Actually, the worst free was SON's on the stroke of half-time, when he really had an easy chance to reduce the deficit to 1 point.

People scoffed at Morgan? No, I pointed out the stupidity of the comparison precisely because it was 'after 4 weeks'. Follow the posts. He brought a lot of pressure on himself with the amount of talking he did.

But as I said 'he has a lot to learn but hopefully he's back down to earth where at least he can start to become a top player. Cluxton would tell him that it only takes about 8/9 years.'

ps Are you the mod here? Why don't you just vet anything before its published and anything you do not like or agree with then not publish it? That way you would not have to tell posters where they are wrong in their own valid opinions and how you are always right in yours.

TC is that not a huge issue within tyrone now so? one of the top teams with supposed claims on the AI and they have no reliable free taker in an age when frees are vital with all the mass defending and space and time on the ball at a minimum?

JCluxton wrote:
ps Are you the mod here? Why don't you just vet anything before its published and anything you do not like or agree with then not publish it? That way you would not have to tell posters where they are wrong in their own valid opinions and how you are always right in yours.

No, not a mod - I actually welcomed you to the site, saying that Yin must have its Yang.

Your opinions, however, were not valid. Your opening post here was a rant against Tyrone, soiled with nonsense and bias. You're boring me already, so I won't go into too much detail, but here is one example of your desire to slate Tyrone overtaking logic...

JCluxton wrote: You can throw out your more game time guff for the Donnellys, McAliskey, Quinn etc but the fact is they are ordinary intercounty players and not Sam winners.

So, Conor McAliskey is an average intercounty player who won't improve with game time? I'd love to know how you could comment on this, considering that you've probably only ever seen him about twice. McAliskey is 22, and in his first year on the panel. He has had a very good league campaign, getting regular football much faster than the vast majority of newcomers to the Tyrone set-up in Mickey's era. He contributed nicely in most of the games he played, including scoring 0-3 from play in the League final when leading the line in the absence of SON. He also scored a neat point against Donegal before being taken off for his yellow card.

Now, maybe he won't develop beyond his current level, but the reality is that you don't know enough to comment on that. My guess is that a raw, young lad will get better the more he plays. Bernard Brogan, as you no doubt know, couldn't make the Dublin side with any regularity until he was 25.

(I could also have used, by way of example, 23 year old Mattie Donnelly who is in his 2nd year on the panel, and was MOTM in the League semi final.)

rich dublin wrote:TC is that not a huge issue within tyrone now so? one of the top teams with supposed claims on the AI and they have no reliable free taker in an age when frees are vital with all the mass defending and space and time on the ball at a minimum?

It's funny Rich, but in Tyrone we're actually a lot happier about our free-taking situation than we have been for some years. I'm very confident that Morgan will have more good days than bad days, giving us a decent option from 45m+ that we haven't had in a very long time.

It would be nice to see some other forwards a bit more reliable from their hands, but most of our forwards are picked for their workrate as opposed to their scoring ability. That is a choice that Mickey has made, and the league performances against Cork & Kerry (when we played more scorers and less workers) suggest that we need the grafters to be competitive.

maybe ure right but i think for a team to be really at the top table and challenging for all irelands then they need far more options upfront than just a keeper taking frees and while he seems good he is young and from what i seen sunday prone to the ' shakes' ? i could be wrong!

My opinion, or rant as you see fit to call it seemingly because it doesn't match yours, is as valid as yours.

And many thanks for the condescending welcome that my lack of intellect would balance your superior one. You must be able to see out your mouth lad as you are so far up your own ....

Goalkeepers are now the long range kicking specialists.

It's more efficient to have 1 player master the art of kicking off the ground than 2. The goalkeeper of today is required to be very precise with his kickouts so makes sense to utilise this skill in all situations, not just kickouts.

I wouldn't read too much into Morgan taking the frees.

Of the top teams only Dublin, Meath and Tyrone employ the goalkeepers but I can see this trend continuing.

45m+ freetaker for top counties:
Dublin - Stephen Cluxton
Donegal - Michael Murphy
Kerry - Bryan Sheehan / Johnny Buckley
Cork - Damian Cahalane
Tyrone - Niall Morgan
Mayo - Cillian O'Connor
Meath - Paddy O'Rourke

JCluxton wrote:My opinion, or rant as you see fit to call it seemingly because it doesn't match yours, is as valid as yours.

And many thanks for the condescending welcome that my lack of intellect would balance your superior one. You must be able to see out your mouth lad as you are so far up your own ....

Genuinely sorry to see that TC annoys you to the point that you left the site, then came back as a guest and immediately started into the old "my opinion is as valid as yours" rant again.

Also, Michael Brennan's goal was a tap in that rebounded out after a save from a Johnston Penalty.

"Genuinely sorry to see that TC annoys you to the point that you left the site, then came back as a guest and immediately started into the old "my opinion is as valid as yours" rant again."


Who are you and what are you talking about? This site is full of weird characters. I have posted my opinion here in a handful of posts and have been already accused of ranting twice! Ranting! Laughable really. Is no-one allowed give a critical appraisal here? Is it some form of secret religious sect site or something?

No wonder there is no traffic on this site.

None so blind.

Loyal2TheRoyal wrote:Goalkeepers are now the long range kicking specialists.

It's more efficient to have 1 player master the art of kicking off the ground than 2. The goalkeeper of today is required to be very precise with his kickouts so makes sense to utilise this skill in all situations, not just kickouts.

That is a very good point, Loyal. I suppose the move away from long range free-takers off the ground began almost 25 years ago, when players were first permitted to take freekicks from their hands. Kicking a ball off the ground is a different skill to master, and it does make sense to have someone focussing solely on this.

Whoever kicks the frees, it is important to have someone who can score them. Never before in our game has space been so tight, and having someone who can capitalise on opportunities from anywhere up to 55m is essential for a side with AI aspirations.

On a related note, if Mayo have indeed lost their free-taker (Cillian O'Connor) for the season, it would be a savage blow to their AI aspirations.

JCluxton wrote:"Genuinely sorry to see that TC annoys you to the point that you left the site, then came back as a guest and immediately started into the old "my opinion is as valid as yours" rant again."


Who are you and what are you talking about? This site is full of weird characters. I have posted my opinion here in a handful of posts and have been already accused of ranting twice! Ranting! Laughable really. Is no-one allowed give a critical appraisal here? Is it some form of secret religious sect site or something?

No wonder there is no traffic on this site.

None so blind.

You're better than this. Hope all is well.

Good point about the free taker being so vital these days. Something we are seriously lacking in Cavan, Gilsenan knocked over a few nice ones for the U21s and might be used against Fermanagh.

RMDrive wrote:Great win for us. Delighted with it considering the injuries to Thompson and McGlynn and the lack of fitness of Lacey and McHugh.
Great to read the analysis above. I'll try to post my 2 cents worth later in the week.
One quick one though ... Ballybofey is a bigger pitch than Croke Park. Enough of this tight pitch rubbish.

RMD your claim that Ballbofey is a bigger pitch turns out to be a load of hogwash. It is a much smaller pitch in fact and not only that it turns out that both sidelines were moved in by a metre each side prior to last weeks game narrowing the pitch even further.

Been chatting to a few guys who played last Sunday and they are still disappointed at the result and the performance. It also seems that Donegals first goal came on the back of some dubious refereeing. It seems he had no right to move the ball forward as the ball wasn't actually in play when Clarke committed the alleged foul.

Something tells me the two teams are destined to meet again before the summer is over............... Young Morgan may get a chance to redeem himself and a few others along with him

bocerty wrote:

RMDrive wrote:Great win for us. Delighted with it considering the injuries to Thompson and McGlynn and the lack of fitness of Lacey and McHugh.
Great to read the analysis above. I'll try to post my 2 cents worth later in the week.
One quick one though ... Ballybofey is a bigger pitch than Croke Park. Enough of this tight pitch rubbish.

RMD your claim that Ballbofey is a bigger pitch turns out to be a load of hogwash. It is a much smaller pitch in fact and not only that it turns out that both sidelines were moved in by a metre each side prior to last weeks game narrowing the pitch even further.

Been chatting to a few guys who played last Sunday and they are still disappointed at the result and the performance. It also seems that Donegals first goal came on the back of some dubious refereeing. It seems he had no right to move the ball forward as the ball wasn't actually in play when Clarke committed the alleged foul.

Something tells me the two teams are destined to meet again before the summer is over............... Young Morgan may get a chance to redeem himself and a few others along with him

Can they meet in quarters ? If donegal go back door they cant meet in qualifiers, cant remember the rule if Donegal win Ulster, is a tyrone clash excluded or is it only excluded if they met in provincial final ?
If they cant meet in quarters then tyrone need to draw Mayo or Leitrim in quarters to meet Donegal at sf stage.