Donegal v Tyrone USFC (1st Round)

Donegal

1. Had 15 fewer scoring attempts (estimate - note im including kicks to keepers hands )
2. Lost about 90pc of kickout ball from 15th to 50th minute
3. Had about 20 pc of possession from 15th to 50th minute
4. Gave up the first two points of the second half (where they normally turn the screw)

And won by a wider margin than last two outings.

The machine is not as oiled as it was last August - not sure how much is due to conditions. Went a huge spell,in middle of game without getting ball to forwards after running into blind alleys or poor hand-passes, bradley, thompson, mcloone, murphy all guilty.

That said the scoring chances they gave to tyrone were exact same as last year. A few wonder points fron o neill and donnelly and Cavanagh but 3 from every four were hit and hope. The only new dimension was Morgan (who might regret his showboating after the first score), If he had hit form the outcome as different but then again if your game plan is 60 yard kicks in a " donegal summer"
Maybe the choice of venue was key ?

Positives for Donegal.
Mcbrearty by a mile niw definetly a man rather than a gassun with talent
Mcfadden awoken from his winter slumber
Neil Mcgee - his shoulder against O neill was reminiscent of the rock 2003 v kilkenny
Lacey oozed class and showed what was missing

Negatives

Midfield and its environs for huge patches of the game.
Half forward line

Huge improvementnfrom league but still 5 points shortbofbthevteamthst played down, kerry cork, but with Mcglynn, lacey mchugh to return certainly cause for optimisim.

At 1-06 to 0-09, Tyrone looked to be getting on top. Then came the turning point, a palmed goal from McWhearty and a fisted point from McBrearty. As someone who has been a stanch admirer of the aestethics of Donegal's play over recent seasons, I felt this game was won in the most distasteful of manners. Even after the goal, Tyrone had plenty of possession but I think the old saying applied from here on in; "The game was played on Donegal's terms". It will take a gigantic effort from the rest of the teams in Ulster to even trouble Donegal. Tyrone on the other hand, should be capable of at least making the last 12 without much fuss, the only danger to them is if they meet the losers of what we assume will be Dublin/Kildare Leinster semi-final.

Tyrone are a very ordinary outfit and the fact that they were about the only team to put in a League effort gave a false impression of where they are at. They have done little since last winning Sam and still rely on 5/6 of these players who are all beyond 30 now. None of the newer players since are All Ireland winning calibre. And their temperament is still poor with McMahon red carded and Colm Kavanagh lucky to stay on the pitch. They are way off being Sam contenders.

Plenty of thoughts on yesterday's game, and I'll list them rather than paragraphing.

Tyrone

• In the last 3 championship meetings with Donegal, Tyrone have scored a total of 0-29, and only 10 of that meagre total have come in the 2nd half. In all three games, we huffed and puffed for 45 minutes, before being completely swallowed by a bigger, better organised, more tactically varied and astute side.

• We won more ball around midfield than anyone could have imagined, although this was partly due to us having more bodies in that area. Donegal have mastered controlling a game without the ball.

• I've read Tyrone people talking about going back to the drawing board, but that would merely be scribbling. The league gave us a very good idea of what our best side is, and what played on Sunday is close to it. There will be a few tweaks for the qualifiers, but there is no secret weapon on the bench ready to get his chance.

• I said on here in my last post that PJ Quinn was a bad match-up for all the Donegal full-forwards, yet Mickey seemed to think he was well-suited to McBrearty. PJ is a decent intercounty player, but his lack of size cost us the first goal. One of the McMahons should have been back there instead.

• Nobody in Tyrone can understand why Mickey never, ever substitutes Peter Harte. He has regressed as a player, and is not currently worth a starting place.

• Mickey was also wrong to take off Conor McAliskey. It was the move of a former schoolmaster, teaching the young lad a lesson. McAliskey was too fired up and it cost him a yellow card, but he had also started very brightly. A talking to would have been a better option. Paddy McNeice, who replaced McAliskey, is a safe, functional roleplayer, but will not win you a tight game. (Note, Peter Harte was not taken off despite being carded a short time later.)

• Tyrone had chances to score goals, but didn't take them. A couple of times, we beat the sliding Donegal cover on the wings and had men free down the middle, but we failed to find them. That, though, is the template for beating the Donegal system. i.e. commit them out to the wings in packs, have a big man who can draw them in and then find your own man with a ball into the middle.

• Niall Morgan will get a lot of stick, but all 6 of his attempts were difficult on a dry day, never mind a wet one. A fair return would have been 3/6. The only one he hit badly was the last one, and if you watch the replay you'll see his concentration was broken by Donegal's 3 pillars. He will be better in future.

• Too many of our players dropped their heads, mainly through exhaustion but also frustration. We don't have as many leaders as we did a few years ago.

Donegal

• They should be favourites for the AI. No other side is as well organised, and no other side has such power in the full forward line. McBrearty is as good at 19 as Murphy was, and has more pace.

• Donegal can vary their tactics in a way Tyrone can't. They have men who can kick a long ball, and others who can win it when it comes in. Their inside power provides them with a lot of easy frees, in contrast to the low probability chances that they give opponents.

• Jimmy won't be too concerned with the midfield/kickout stats, nor Tyrone's wide count. Donegal give you possession, and dare you to do something with it. It is the gaelic football equivalent of the rope-a-dope.

• Donegal, no matter how awful the spectacle may become, will not come out and attack, and for the 3rd year running Tyrone (a natural counterattacking side) have come forward recklessly. Yesterday it cost us 2 goals on the break. They are the poker player who refuses to blink. Their only defeat under McGuinness was the 0-8 to 0-6 defeat to Dublin in 2011. Dublin refused to attack, and the game ended up a stalemate. Perhaps that is the way to play them - just don't push forward, and take your chances with a very low scoreline.

• Donegal will improve further when their 3 most creative defenders are all fit again. There is depth in the squad for most positions, although there remain a few irreplacables, none moreso than Murphy. If Jimmy can continue to deploy him around midfield, and McBrearty and McFadden continue to play well, it will take a very good side to stop them.

3 years in a row is a bit much for a guy tagged with being one of the most astute managers around. He was out thought yesterday again with the same tactics from the previous 2 years!!!!

Mickey needs to have a look at himself as much as the players do - has he slipped into comfort zone as he thinks he is irreplaceable.

the two goals were the difference along with the fact Morgan had an off day, after missing the 3rd one i would have changed the kicker or the tactic it was pointless continuing with him not only was his own confidence shot to bits but the teams confidence wasnt being helped either

bocerty wrote:
the two goals were the difference along with the fact Morgan had an off day, after missing the 3rd one i would have changed the kicker or the tactic it was pointless continuing with him not only was his own confidence shot to bits but the teams confidence wasnt being helped either

Boc, do you think that a few of the frees were just too far out? One of them (dropped short) was 60m through the air on a very wet day. I think a couple of quick frees may have been a better bet.

I agree about Mickey needing to reassess - we were out manoeuvred.

i'd agree with the observation on Peter Harte TC, he is the untouchable of that team. He offered a bit more yesterday than he normally does but for a man wearing 11 he just doesn't cut it in that position, had he even one shot yesterday?

The tight confines of Ballybofey suited Donegal it made it easier for Donegal to reduce the space for our forwards. Not sure a bigger pitch would have made a difference given the game plan Donegal had but..............

On another note, over the years us Tyrone guys have listened to our fair share of jibes and digs about being a dirty team. I have read much about yesterdays game on different sites and in one instance Stevie O'Neill was called a scumbag by several individuals from Donegal. O'Neill might be many things but he certainly isnt a scumbag. The abuse he took yesterday from Magee was bordering on disgraceful, and it makes me wonder at times just what the umpires job is when it comes to this sort of niggling. Magee was kicking nipping all the usual ***** and i could see it from where is was standing so how the umpire didnt is beyond me. Many of you will say its all part and parcel of the game sorry i dont agree.

Thomas Clarke wrote:

bocerty wrote:
the two goals were the difference along with the fact Morgan had an off day, after missing the 3rd one i would have changed the kicker or the tactic it was pointless continuing with him not only was his own confidence shot to bits but the teams confidence wasnt being helped either

Boc, do you think that a few of the frees were just too far out? One of them (dropped short) was 60m through the air on a very wet day. I think a couple of quick frees may have been a better bet.

I agree about Mickey needing to reassess - we were out manoeuvred.

he had the distance for all bar one TC, he dropped one into Durkins hands in the first half all the rest had the legs. Donegal had their homework done there and it looked to me like Tyrone were caught on the hop with the Donegal tactics when he was lining up the frees.

In the last 15 minutes when we needed scores we were kicking balls into the full forward line were we had 1 forward surrounded by 4 defenders, hardly the tactics of an astute team/manager.

All our big guns were kept quiet, Mattie Donnelly, Mark Donnelly Stevie and big Sean - we jsut dont have the players TC at the minute there are a few with potential but its high time they started to move from being potential stars to being actual stars. our options are very limited especially in the front 6 department.

Great win for us. Delighted with it considering the injuries to Thompson and McGlynn and the lack of fitness of Lacey and McHugh.
Great to read the analysis above. I'll try to post my 2 cents worth later in the week.
One quick one though ... Ballybofey is a bigger pitch than Croke Park. Enough of this tight pitch rubbish.

RMDrive wrote:Great win for us. Delighted with it considering the injuries to Thompson and McGlynn and the lack of fitness of Lacey and McHugh.
Great to read the analysis above. I'll try to post my 2 cents worth later in the week.
One quick one though ... Ballybofey is a bigger pitch than Croke Park. Enough of this tight pitch rubbish.

i find that hard to believe RMD, very hard in deed

i was in the terrace and thus far from the dugouts but every time a Donegal man hit the floor Jim was out waving his arms and giving the last rites and resurrecting them all sorts . WTF was that all about

bocerty wrote:

RMDrive wrote:Great win for us. Delighted with it considering the injuries to Thompson and McGlynn and the lack of fitness of Lacey and McHugh.
Great to read the analysis above. I'll try to post my 2 cents worth later in the week.
One quick one though ... Ballybofey is a bigger pitch than Croke Park. Enough of this tight pitch rubbish.

i find that hard to believe RMD, very hard in deed

i was in the terrace and thus far from the dugouts but every time a Donegal man hit the floor Jim was out waving his arms and giving the last rites and resurrecting them all sorts . WTF was that all about

I'd Guess one of two possible causes


a) He has lost the plot and geniunely believes he is the second coming of our Lord
b) He believes it adds a very small edge in that it Incenses a home crowd to appeal to the Ref, it is personal attempt to influence the Ref, it antogonises and hence distracts the opposition management team when they should be looking at switching their corner backs or number 11, and it delays play when you are ahead or the opposition have momentum

Evidence that Donegal had identified SC as a potential Threat !

Ballybofey pitch is actually bigger than Croke Pk. as for acting, diving, dark arts etc the away team brought all that to new heights or depths so its a bit rich to see their fans moan about it now when they practicaly invented it.

The boys from both camps are making valid points and there's very little to add to the Donegal assessment except to wonder where their midfield disappeared to between the 20th and 55th minutes. An item that puzzles me however is Jimmy's use and abuse of Ryan Bradley. He never seems to get more than 30 minutes (OK, probably wrong here but) before he gets yanked...

Tyrone will not trouble any of the heavy hitters until they resolve the No.11 position. Peter Harte deserved to be yanked on Sunday with or without the yellow card. Whatever style any team adopts a playmaker, creator is a necessity and if he could deliver the killer ball a'la Gooch it would be an added bonus. Their mild regression is parralled with the decline and ultimate departure of Brian McGuigan, who filled the role to perfection. I threw out the line last year on this issue and floated the name of Owen Mulligan but that door now seems bolted.

A proven 11, even for 40 mins, can do enough given a bit of support, If nothing else it creates time to compose and look around a bit.

On the Ryan Bradley issue it would seem that he does not rank within jims Top fifteen as distinct from Jims starting fifteen. It would appear that for any player not certain to last 70 minutes Jim has a pecking order of when he wants them to appear. Laceys 20 minutes being seen as more important towards the latter stages.

really thought tyrone would win this one,but donegal got the little decesions which played a big part in tyrones down fall,as for them twits invading the pitch constantly the gaa need to have words with them either warning or suspensions should be the answer

Boxtyeater wrote:
Tyrone will not trouble any of the heavy hitters until they resolve the No.11 position..

I agree with your take on Harte but, more generally Boxty, Tyrone played the heaviest of hitters on their own patch, and had enough attempts to be 4-5 pts clear after 50 minutes.

Assuming that we avoid a nasty draw in the qualifiers, e.g. away to the losers of the Kildare/Dublin semi or the Cork/Kerry Munster final (none of the other 3 losing provincial finalists will be a problem), I'd fully expect Tyrone to be back in Croke Pk for the quarter finals. The likes of McAliskey, Morgan, R.O'Neill, McNabb, Kane, McCurry, Coney, Clarke and Donnelly will all improve with extra game time, so we could reappear in August in slightly better shape than we are now. The potential for injuries in weekly matches are obviously the big concern but, with reasonable luck, we'll get another crack at it before all is said and done.

OMAR wrote:

bocerty wrote:

RMDrive wrote:Great win for us. Delighted with it considering the injuries to Thompson and McGlynn and the lack of fitness of Lacey and McHugh.
Great to read the analysis above. I'll try to post my 2 cents worth later in the week.
One quick one though ... Ballybofey is a bigger pitch than Croke Park. Enough of this tight pitch rubbish.

i find that hard to believe RMD, very hard in deed

i was in the terrace and thus far from the dugouts but every time a Donegal man hit the floor Jim was out waving his arms and giving the last rites and resurrecting them all sorts . WTF was that all about

I'd Guess one of two possible causes


a) He has lost the plot and geniunely believes he is the second coming of our Lord
b) He believes it adds a very small edge in that it Incenses a home crowd to appeal to the Ref, it is personal attempt to influence the Ref, it antogonises and hence distracts the opposition management team when they should be looking at switching their corner backs or number 11, and it delays play when you are ahead or the opposition have momentum

Very witty OMAR at times it did look like he had lost the plot. I know exactly what he was at my point was is it really necessary. I guess if he thinks it gives him an edge then let him fill his boots but its not the sort of schite i can be bothered with. Its not as if McQuillan needed much influencing

SeGiven wrote:Ballybofey pitch is actually bigger than Croke Pk. as for acting, diving, dark arts etc the away team brought all that to new heights or depths so its a bit rich to see their fans moan about it now when they practicaly invented it.

practically invented it............... what a load of dung

Thomas Clarke wrote:

Boxtyeater wrote:
Tyrone will not trouble any of the heavy hitters until they resolve the No.11 position..

I agree with your take on Harte but, more generally Boxty, Tyrone played the heaviest of hitters on their own patch, and had enough attempts to be 4-5 pts clear after 50 minutes.

Assuming that we avoid a nasty draw in the qualifiers, e.g. away to the losers of the Kildare/Dublin semi or the Cork/Kerry Munster final (none of the other 3 losing provincial finalists will be a problem), I'd fully expect Tyrone to be back in Croke Pk for the quarter finals. The likes of McAliskey, Morgan, R.O'Neill, McNabb, Kane, McCurry, Coney, Clarke and Donnelly will all improve with extra game time, so we could reappear in August in slightly better shape than we are now. The potential for injuries in weekly matches are obviously the big concern but, with reasonable luck, we'll get another crack at it before all is said and done.

your first point is bang on TC, reading some folks opinions Tyrone were hammered and embarrassed and all that (not on here i add) the reality is at 1-6 to 0-9 we had a number of chances to pull away from Donegal and that would have made for an interesting game at that stage. If Penrose had put in a proper hit/tackle on McBrearty in the lead up to the second goal it could have been different. That said Donegal are a much better side and if you were asked to pick a team from all the players who were on view on Sunday not too many Tyrone men would make the first 15.

We need to use the qualifiers wisely in terms of bringing young guys on and giving them serious meaningful game time. As for injuries i see Carlin is already set to miss the start of the qualifiers with a broken nose sustained on Sunday.

bocerty wrote:
your first point is bang on TC, reading some folks opinions Tyrone were hammered and embarrassed and all that (not on here i add) the reality is at 1-6 to 0-9 we had a number of chances to pull away from Donegal and that would have made for an interesting game at that stage. If Penrose had put in a proper hit/tackle on McBrearty in the lead up to the second goal it could have been different. That said Donegal are a much better side and if you were asked to pick a team from all the players who were on view on Sunday not too many Tyrone men would make the first 15.

We need to use the qualifiers wisely in terms of bringing young guys on and giving them serious meaningful game time. As for injuries i see Carlin is already set to miss the start of the qualifiers with a broken nose sustained on Sunday.

Totally agree on Penrose - he went in to put McBrearty over the line, instead of just tying him up. Watch it again though, and you'll see that Gormley, Justy and (most belatedly and criminally) McNeice all ran towards Lacey instead of one of them covering the middle. It cost us the goal. In fact, both goals started with 2v2 or 3v3 in our half of the field, and you have to wonder would a sweeper have prevented them both.

Carlin is so unlucky, but then he has been unlucky all his career. I expect we'll see him back sooner rather than later though - he's a hardy boy.

As for the Tyrone players making the Donegal 15, I don't quite agree to that extent. I think that the sides are well balanced in terms of talent, except for Lacey and the full-forwards. Swap the 2 inside forward lines and you would swap the results, this year and last.

Thomas Clarke wrote:

bocerty wrote:
your first point is bang on TC, reading some folks opinions Tyrone were hammered and embarrassed and all that (not on here i add) the reality is at 1-6 to 0-9 we had a number of chances to pull away from Donegal and that would have made for an interesting game at that stage. If Penrose had put in a proper hit/tackle on McBrearty in the lead up to the second goal it could have been different. That said Donegal are a much better side and if you were asked to pick a team from all the players who were on view on Sunday not too many Tyrone men would make the first 15.

We need to use the qualifiers wisely in terms of bringing young guys on and giving them serious meaningful game time. As for injuries i see Carlin is already set to miss the start of the qualifiers with a broken nose sustained on Sunday.

Totally agree on Penrose - he went in to put McBrearty over the line, instead of just tying him up. Watch it again though, and you'll see that Gormley, Justy and (most belatedly and criminally) McNeice all ran towards Lacey instead of one of them covering the middle. It cost us the goal. In fact, both goals started with 2v2 or 3v3 in our half of the field, and you have to wonder would a sweeper have prevented them both.

Carlin is so unlucky, but then he has been unlucky all his career. I expect we'll see him back sooner rather than later though - he's a hardy boy.

As for the Tyrone players making the Donegal 15, I don't quite agree to that extent. I think that the sides are well balanced in terms of talent, except for Lacey and the full-forwards. Swap the 2 inside forward lines and you would swap the results, this year and last.

thats it Penroses job was to tie up the ball and not let him play it, but as you point out we had a lot of men back but no one covering the runner through the middle. The first goal game from a pedantic decision from McQuillan to award a free to Murphy for something Clarke done on Murphy. Again though McCarron and Quinn should have been anticipating a bit better, but any day McFadden scores with his right foot you know its not going to be a good day.

bocerty wrote:

SeGiven wrote: as for acting, diving, dark arts etc the away team brought all that to new heights or depths so its a bit rich to see their fans moan about it now when they practicaly invented it.

practically invented it............... what a load of dung

It appears that we've stooped to a new low, courtesy of our minors against Donegal...

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You can analyse and parse it all you like boys but the truth is that Tyrone are nowhere near good enough. You can throw out your more game time guff for the Donnellys, McAliskey, Quinn etc but the fact is they are ordinary intercounty players and not Sam winners. Similarly any team relying on the likes of Penrose, C Cavanagh and P Harte will not win Celtic Crosses. And the few quality players they have are the wrong side of 30. They have a new keeper who played a few games and kicked a few points and suddenly he's S Cluxton part II. He buys into it, does all the media and kicks one out of 6 and lets the crowd get the better of him. He has a lot to learn but hopefully he's back down to earth where at least he can start to become a top player. Cluxton would tell him that it only takes about 8/9 years.

Coming into the game Tyrone supposedly had all the good preparation while Donegal's was poor. Who looked fitter and hungrier? Only once in the League did a top team have to beat Tyrone and they did. Never mind the comeback, they were destroyed in the first half. Embarrassed.

On Sunday they didn't score for 32 mins. To say that Donegal got the breaks or little decisions is BS. Donegal won pulling up yet did not play anywhere near their potential. Tyrone played as well as they were allowed. That is the big difference. As Donegal grew into the game Tyrone could not live with them. Tyrone put in a big effort for the league and still could not win it. The big teams are only cranking up now and will only improve. I do see anything like the potential improvement that would be needed in this Tyrone team.

Tyrone have been back among the also rans for quite a while now and that is likely to continue for some time looking at the lads coming in. Most are average, some good but none Sam class.

JCluxton wrote:
Tyrone have been back among the also rans for quite a while now and that is likely to continue for some time looking at the lads coming in.

It's hard to comment constructively on such a negative and ill-informed post, but I'll draw reference to the above remark:

Tyrone were runners up in division 1 this year, having shown considerable improvement from the previous year when we were runners up in division 2. We may not be able to beat Donegal (the defending AI champions), but we are better than at least 25 other counties. In my book, that doesn't make us as 'also rans'. If all that matters to you is winning an AI then fair enough but, like supporters in 95% of counties, I'm just happy that our lads our continuing to get better, and enjoying some good days mixed in with the disappointing.