Donegal v Down - USFC Final

20 minutes to go, and Donegal lead by 2-10 to 0-10. Very hard to see Down pulling this back, as Donegal look strong and powerful.

Down fans starting to leave with 10 minutes left. 9 points in it, and this game has been over for quite some time now.

Donegal cemented their place as a top 3 team behind Dublin and Cork, very impressive display from them today and thy will be hard to stop based on what we have seen.

With every game they are developing more and more as a serious side.

bocerty wrote:Donegal cemented their place as a top 3 team behind Dublin and Cork, very impressive display from them today and thy will be hard to stop based on what we have seen.

With every game they are developing more and more as a serious side.

I don't even think they are behind them, Boc. I'd say they are pretty much on a par, and I agree that they are very live contenders.

Very happy with the result and its certainly another step in the right direction but i don,t think the scoreline fully tells the tale with a lot of donegal,s points coming after Down had thrown in the towel.

Donegal shaded the first 15 mins but were wasteful missing an easy goal chance and hitting several wides from scoreable positions, also misxing two easy frees something they did not do against Tyrone.

Down had the best of the next 15 mins winning almost everything in midfield and reaped a lot by running hard from centre field into the Donegal 21. Its not as easy to play blanket when your runningtowards your own goal. In fact one extra offload on two or three occasions could hae led to a few goals. A good burst of 1-3 before th break steadied the nerves.

So at half time it was no means a fait accompli. In the early part of the second half donegal were more composed and broke very fast and effective on three occasions outscoring Down by2 points in the early exchanges. The goal ended it as a contest and it was a Turkey shoot from there.

Not withstanding that Down kicked a lot of wides and unlike against Tyrone where we forced them to kick hail Marys several of Downs wides came from the 21.

So conceeding 13 points against a team that had oppurtunity to score several more and with one pass more could have had two goals is a concern.

The failure to score more than 2 points in the first 30 odd mins also something to concern me as.

My biggest worry was that down managed to get from the 45 to the 21 much more frequently than we have let any team in the past 14 months. We could not afford to let a half forward line with the power of say a Cork side do something similar. Pity we don,t have a top class 14 stone centre half back that could shore up the middle

The positives aside from the result and scoreline
Mchugh was again outstanding covering every blade of grass on the pitch
Mcglynn did well going forward but did get turned a few times
Bradley did well aside from a tough patch in the middle of the first half
Another great save from Durkan
Lacey as always was flawless but he is still being asked to rotate between centre half and man-markermmid game in the absence of a natural centre half like KC.
Good to hear Mark Mchugh on the radio talking about getting back to training tomorrow!
How times have changed in 24 months !!!

Also should mention Mcfaddens performance aside from 6 odd points his best moment was a long ball played into the corner of the hill and Duffy terrace.
The ball was at best 50/50 which he worked against two men made space and recycled eventually leading to a Mcbrearty point, summed up his approach all day.

OMAR wrote:
So at half time it was no means a fait accompli.

I know what you are saying, but it was! Down had thrown everything they had (including punches, full-frontal charges and dirty hits) at Donegal, and were a spent force. Smaller and lighter, Down seemed to think that they would intimidate the defending champions, and while they did cause some problems in the first half hour, they were already feeling the strain of playing against a strong, fit side. Perhaps it wasn't on the scoreboard but, in all other regards, his one was over very, very early.

Down seemed to line up in a fashion mirroring Donegal, with Aidan Carr playing the same sweeper role that Mark McHugh does. Both sides were playing very defensively, and the first 30 minutes were very poor. Incredibly, once the scoring started, it didn't stop (well, at least not in one direction anyway). Donegal kicked some excellent points in the 2nd half, with McFadden in particular playing as well as I've seen him. McBrearty was also very good, and it is very hard to believe that he is 18. He is a big lad, and looks very comfortable in this sort of company. As Omar has said, Mark McHugh was also superb, and not even Benny Coulter's red-card-deserving punch could slow him down.

I'd question what game James McCartan was watching when he brought on Daniel Hughes and reintroduced Coulter. At that point, Down's chance had long gone, and I can't believe that he didn't save them for what is now a very dicey game against Tipp next Saturday.

Down are what many thought they were, namely a very average side, who are as cynical and defensive as any other team you'd care to think of. Donegal are also what I thought they were, and they will be in the mix late in the summer. The one concern for them must be Michael Murphy's form - one point from play in 3 games is a poor return for a man of his ability, and much better will be required against the big sides.

Probably right TC that Down had played their hand but when that could have yielded another 2-3 its hard to relax.
Murphy has not been stellar but moved out to the 50 after 25 mins. I think about 1-3 came from his offloads Plus a few bad misses. So overall i think his contribution was still key.

bocerty wrote:Donegal cemented their place as a top 3 team behind Dublin and Cork, very impressive display from them today and thy will be hard to stop based on what we have seen.

With every game they are developing more and more as a serious side.

Where are Kerry???

We have had a lot of Ulster posters on here telling us how bad Down are and when Doengal stuff them they suddenly become a top 2/3 team. I think Ulster football is in a bad place right now and would reserve any judgment on Donegal until they meet a team from outside the province.

Parouisa wrote:
Where are Kerry???

We have had a lot of Ulster posters on here telling us how bad Down are and when Doengal stuff them they suddenly become a top 2/3 team. I think Ulster football is in a bad place right now and would reserve any judgment on Donegal until they meet a team from outside the province.

I'd agree about the poor standard in Ulster, but I think that Donegal showed last year that they were also able to compete with the best from the other provinces. There are still question marks around them, but I think they deserve to be in the discussion for potential winners.

Thomas Clarke wrote:There are still question marks around them, but I think they deserve to be in the discussion for potential winners.

Wouldn't necessarily disagree with that but Kerry must also be mentioned in at least the same breath ......

Parouisa wrote:

Thomas Clarke wrote:There are still question marks around them, but I think they deserve to be in the discussion for potential winners.

Wouldn't necessarily disagree with that but Kerry must also be mentioned in at least the same breath ......

Yes, they should be mentioned, and could go on now and win the whole thing....but I still don't think that they will!

Thomas Clarke wrote:Yes, they should be mentioned, and could go on now and win the whole thing....but I still don't think that they will!

I'd say the general feeling among Tyrone fans is ABK ...... ??? Would I be right?

Parouisa wrote:

Thomas Clarke wrote:Yes, they should be mentioned, and could go on now and win the whole thing....but I still don't think that they will!

I'd say the general feeling among Tyrone fans is ABK ...... ??? Would I be right?

For most, I'd say that the preference would be a Donegal win. As for Kerry, it wouldn't annoy me at all, but I think that they will have much bigger challenges ahead than the one they overcame on Saturday night.

Thomas Clarke wrote:

Parouisa wrote:

Thomas Clarke wrote:Yes, they should be mentioned, and could go on now and win the whole thing....but I still don't think that they will!

I'd say the general feeling among Tyrone fans is ABK ...... ??? Would I be right?

For most, I'd say that the preference would be a Donegal win. As for Kerry, it wouldn't annoy me at all, but I think that they will have much bigger challenges ahead than the one they overcame on Saturday night.

Anyone but Kildare.. Anyone at all..

Jonsmith wrote:Anyone but Kildare.. Anyone at all..

Did you go yesterday JS?

It was set out as a five year plan and if things evolve quicker than that its a bonus.
The starting point was a Division two team that had lost in the first round in Ulster 3 years in a row
and that had a "two game championship" in 2010 the second game of which was a drubbing from an average Armagh side.

Last year where we got to in my view was a place at back of the queue amongst the "top 8"
A division two title and promotion- however the surprise factor of the system and a bit of luck against Kildare took us to a semi final but in my view that flattered the true standing
the top 3 were Dublin,Kerry,Cork after that Kildare, Mayo,Tyrone and I'd have placed Donegal in a group with say Meath, galway, Laois,Armagh in terms of true standing. But from a year ago that was signifcant progress.

Without evloving the system Donegal would not benefit from the surprise factor for a second year running and would have regressed to being well outside the top 8.

In my view progress would be consistency in making the quarter final stage and establishing themselves as a "top Six side" I feel that joining the "top 3" Dublin,Cork Kerry is another step.
Where we need to get to is to be as good as any of the next 3/4 With Mayo,Kildare,Donegal,Meath. ie our objective is a quarter final berth - The chances of a semi final very much come down to the Draw - If we get Kerry then probably not - if we get Meath or Kildare we should have a 50/50 and real progress would be beating them. If we draw Down/Tipp/Laois we should be aspiring to beat them.

In summary the average age of the team is 23 - Becoming a top 3 contender is a step for further down the line - where we need to get to is to confirm that we as good as the best of the rest.

Firstly, well done to Donegal. Will never be swayed into believing that what they are doing is good for Gaelic football, but it is mightily effective.

Their breaking at pace was awesome, conceived on the sideline and executed masterfully on the pitch.

Down once again suffered from their woeful defence. Midfield dominated for large parts when the game was in the balance, the forwards were getting inside the Donegal defence (although were guilty of some shocking misses, and poor shot selection when better options were available), yet the defenders were simply caught wanting far too often.

James McCartan's favouritism for Burren players has been a taint on the good work he has done. His brother Eoin is simply not fit, and Dan already seems over the hill. Kevin McKernan transformed himself as a player in 2010, yet now he seems constantly intent on doing the fancy things and ignoring his defensive duties. The first Donegal goal was due to him making an inexplicably terrible attempt at a breaking ball.

I completely disagree with TC's assertion that Down were cynical and defensive. In fact, Down suffered in the end from attacking in too many numbers, with Brendan McArdle constantly being in the wrong end of the pitch when Donegal broke. Darren O'Hagan too. Down did not only break through the Donegal screen, but had options in front of goal many times......yet they were oddly poor with their shooting. Passes were available, but were not made.

A soul crushing defeat for all Down folk. Down were in great position a few minutes before half time...but carelessly let Donegal reel off a few scores to take the lead before the whistle. Even after half time, Down were still controlling large areas of the pitch, yet were let down by inaccuracy up front, and a sheer lack of quality defenders.

I still despise the Donegal style, and the precedent it sets for other teams to follow. As effective and demanding as it is, Donegal played good football only when the game had died as a contest. Indeed, Conor Laverty seemed to be the only player who still wanted to play, admirably but uselessly going for breaking balls in midfield.

I am not totally disheartened yet. The scoreline was not a reflection of this game, as Down had their chances to build a lead. They took the game to the Donegal blanket and did so very well. The fact remains though that we will go nowhere until we get some hard men in defence.

We must now deal with the 6 day turnaround, and a win against Tipp will get us back on track hopefully. It's a huge if though...as some of Down's better players will surely be questioning themselves.

Don't want to be bitter, but I hope Donegal get ate by someone. They are killing our sport. I have been saying that long before yesterday.

Bluearmy has been drinking the same stuff as Loyal.

Not cynical? - What would you call the antics of Coulter? Of King/Poland's dirty hits? You were quick to slate Conor Gormley, yet he didn't raise a fist.

Not defensive? - Where was Aidan Carr lined out? He looked like a sweeper to me. Plus you played a defender in midfield, and another (Doyle) in the half-forwards.

Down controlled large parts of the field after halftime? - Seriously, what game were you watching?

Donegal's style is despicable - They scored 2-18, most of it from play, and were disciplined. For God's sake man, give them some credit when it is due.

OMAR wrote: Becoming a top 3 contender is a step for further down the line - where we need to get to is to confirm that we as good as the best of the rest.

In his first book, Mickey Harte tells how, at the first team meeting after he took charge, he told the side that he was sure they would win an all-ireland within 3 years, and that Stephen O'Neill spoke out and said 'Why wait?'.

Forget talk of establishing yourselves as being among the best of the rest, any side who are as dominant in their province as Donegal are (despite the relative weakness of Ulster at present), should be thinking All Irelands. I don't see many great sides out there that you should be frightened off, and none that will dominate you physically. Donegal have a brilliant young manager, and I don't see him being out-thought by the likes of a Conor Counihan, for instance.

The other thing to consider is your playing style. Sides who are very high on fitness and intensity don't normally hang around for several years - you get a fairly small window to capitalise, and I'd say that Donegal are in theirs. They are capable of troubling any of the remaining sides, and would be among the top 3-4 contenders in my book.

You talk about Coulter, heavy hits from Kalum King, and whatever Mark Poland did. Perhaps what you meant to say was that 3 players were cynical with a few dirty hits, and not the collective Down effort. In terms of cynicism, the game was not even on the same planet as Kerry v Tyrone.

From what I saw, Down did not sit back, and made a genuine attempt to be attacking, and probably suffered for it in the end. Liam Doyle is a natural forward, a positive scoring player. Down's low scoring tally had much more to do from wastefulness than any reluctance to go forward. To say that Down actually had a lot of chances against the Donegal defence speaks for itself.

In the opening period of the second half, Down were still playing well. They were winning ball around the middle of the field and got a few scores. At this stage, had Down perhaps made more of their possession they could have built a small lead, which could have changed the game. Instead they wasted their opportunities and allowed Donegal to break.

I have already said Donegal were deserving of their victory. In the end they destroyed us as comprehensively as could be asked of any team. It does not mean that I should hail their style. I detest it. It is not sour grapes, I have been saying it on this forum for months. Once Donegal go up by 4-5 points, it's game over. And that is indeed how it panned out with their second goal. The Down heads dropped, and Donegal could waltz to the title.

bluearmy1 wrote:You talk about Coulter, heavy hits from Kalum King, and whatever Mark Poland did. Perhaps what you meant to say was that 3 players were cynical with a few dirty hits, and not the collective Down effort. In terms of cynicism, the game was not even on the same planet as Kerry v Tyrone.

Remind me why Conor Garvey was suspended from playing in this game?

Seriously BA, the bias in your posts is really staggering. Down are not some group of gifted, pure-footballing evangelists, against whom fate, musclebound ogres and Mother Nature continually conspire. They are an average side, who play the game in a similar fashion to almost everyone else.

If you care to go back to previous threads, I stated that I did not like the dirty hits Down were putting in. I specifically brought up the incidents regarding Brannigan in the Fermanagh game and the Garvey incident and called it "scummy".

Not that those incidents have anything to do with the quote from me you chose to focus on.

I just said I don't like Donegal's style. It's nothing to do with getting beat by them. I've been saying that for the guts of a year now.

You said plenty more than that, BA, but failed to back any of it up.

You said that the collective Down effort was not dirty, and that they are not cynical, yet you now admit that they put in a lot of dirty hits and 'scummy actions' against both Monaghan and Donegal. I'd call that cynical, among other things.

Also, it is fine not to like Donegal's defending in numbers, but it is wrong to try and paint Down's as being any different.

My tactical take on Donegal's impressive display is now live [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]