Will Bernard Brogan ever be top class?

What age is he now? Must be 27/28 at this stage? He's been around long enough anyway to have developed his game a bit better. The only thing he seems to do when he gets the ball is turn and shoot. On a good day they go over, on a bad day - like against wexford - he wastes ball after ball. We saw last year against cork too how he started shooting from crazy angles in the dying minutes, trying to be the hero instead of doing what was best for the team. The truly great forwards over the years - canavan, fitzgerald, gooch - always seem to take the right option on the ball. The gooch is the master of it, he always does whats best for the team whether it makes him look good or not. I wonder will brogan ever develop his game to that level or will he always remain a pretty average forward?

The Brogans are programmed to shoot alright. Possibly Bernard has taken on the responsibility - in his own mind - of doing all the scoring for Dublin. To his credit, he possesses the dexterity to shoot off either foot with an incredible strike rate but occasionally it goes wrong. And then, one miss can quickly lead to five or six.

If he could broaden his mind when he gets possession, it might help but then again, if he looks up and sees O'Gara with arms outstretched, you can't blaming him for sodding it and going alone. It's unlikely - at this stage of his career - that he will acquire Gooch like awareness but they managed to coach the go-it-alone policy out of Alan. Still though, I'd wait until Mossy Quinn and Diarmuid Connolly inspire with a bit more confidence before instructing Bernard to pass more.

Yis are fooking gas ... or blind!

Oh na na what's his name ...

Comparing players to Gooch isn't exactly fair.. BB's all round play is very good and his ability to win possession and score is outstanding but he doesn't have the Gooch like ability to take 3 or 4 defenders out of the play with a pass that nobody else would even see in the same situation.

Some say great players are judged by how well they play when they are having a bad day. Gooch would never have as bad a day as BB did against Wexford.. A top top player all the same, explosive and brilliant, but not in the class of Canavan, Fitzgerald or Cooper.. Yet anyways..

Jonsmith wrote:Comparing players to Gooch isn't exactly fair.. BB's all round play is very good and his ability to win possession and score is outstanding but he doesn't have the Gooch like ability to take 3 or 4 defenders out of the play with a pass that nobody else would even see in the same situation.

Some say great players are judged by how well they play when they are having a bad day. Gooch would never have as bad a day as BB did against Wexford.. A top top player all the same, explosive and brilliant, but not in the class of Canavan, Fitzgerald or Cooper.. Yet anyways..

I thought Gooch was very poor v Cork but nobody says fook all!!!

B Brogan scored a beauty after 20 seconds v Wexford and was sh1te thereafter ... for the first time ever that I can recall. Alan was a disaster for years given his performances versus his talent - but is a late bloomer - so far! But BB does things that I would pay the money in just to see - like P Joyce, Gooch, GG and others ..

Donie Shine is class too as is Michael Murphy .. and so similar!

[quote="Jayo Cluxton"]Yis are fooking gas ... or blind!

Oh na na what's his name ...
[/quote

It's just an anti Dublin thing don't worry about it that boy could play with the best

I never said the lad didnt have ability. He is generally pretty good shooting for scores (though not against wexford). But his all-round game is actually quite weak. Until he develops other aspects of his game he will never be a great player. Or maybe its just a matter of management reminding him that he will be dropped unless he starts playing for dublin and stops playing for bernard brogan

mullins wrote:

It's just an anti Dublin thing don't worry about it that boy could play with the best

So the opinion that he's not in the same class as some of the greats of our generation is anti-dub? Johnston isn't in the class of BB does that make me anti-Cavan?

I'd have him in the same category as Meehan or O'Neill.. Capable of extraordinary things but lacking the genius that marks a true great.

Jonsmith wrote:Capable of extraordinary things but lacking the genius that marks a true great.

I think that just about sums him up. Well said

Bernard had one bad match this year. Be careful writing him off. He will show his class again next match.

Jonsmith wrote:

mullins wrote:

It's just an anti Dublin thing don't worry about it that boy could play with the best

So the opinion that he's not in the same class as some of the greats of our generation is anti-dub? Johnston isn't in the class of BB does that make me anti-Cavan?

I'd have him in the same category as Meehan or O'Neill.. Capable of extraordinary things but lacking the genius that marks a true great.

If Meehan and O'Neil are not to be considered greats by your standards then there will not have been enough greats over the years to hold a game of 15v 15.

Depends what you'd consider a "great".. I would only consider a select few to be "great" For me the likes of Gooch and Canavan Fitzgerald have that extra something that elevates them above the rest and into this category.. Meehan, O'Neill, BB, all wonderful wonderful players and several steps above most other players of their generation but just not in the class of the lads above. If that means that there wouldn't be enough for 15 v 15 then so be it.

Stephen O'Neill would be a great in my opinion.

Declan Meehan was a fine wing-back, whether he's a great, well I'm not sure. A great half-back for me would be Paul Curran, Tomas O'Se, Philip Jordan.

Jonsmith wrote:Depends what you'd consider a "great".. I would only consider a select few to be "great" For me the likes of Gooch and Canavan Fitzgerald have that extra something that elevates them above the rest and into this category.. Meehan, O'Neill, BB, all wonderful wonderful players and several steps above most other players of their generation but just not in the class of the lads above. If that means that there wouldn't be enough for 15 v 15 then so be it.

I have genuine doubts about Canavan's inclusion in this pantheon of legends....Clearly ahead of most Tyrone forwards of his time, he'd hardly be up there with the Gooch, Joyce or Maurice Fitz.....
IMO Gerard Cavlan was a better footballer/team player than Canavan....

Jonsmith wrote:

mullins wrote:

It's just an anti Dublin thing don't worry about it that boy could play with the best

So the opinion that he's not in the same class as some of the greats of our generation is anti-dub? Johnston isn't in the class of BB does that make me anti-Cavan?

I'd have him in the same category as Meehan or O'Neill.. Capable of extraordinary things but lacking the genius that marks a true great.

Personally Jon i couldn't give a fook what people outside of Dublin think of BB,its a long time since we produced a player of his ability..to me he's a joy to watch

Thank god he wears the Navy/Sky Blue of Dublin and not is mother's colours

Good to know. So are you standing by your "Anti-Dublin" statement then?

BB is a brilliant player but he would need a few more seasons at a standard close to what he was doing last season to be considered a great (probably impossible for anyone to play at that standard year in year out but close to it would be enough). For me great players are those who are at the top for years. Guys like Gooch, Maurice, McGeeney, McConville, Darragh and Tomas O'Se, ONeill, Jordan, Giles, Geraghty, McGrane, McDonnell, Canavan, Joyce, Cluxton and the two blonde bombshells from Mayo.