Q2: Armagh vs Wicklow 7pm 9/7/11

While most would be happy with the draw, I am not. There is a serious shock on the cards here especially with Micko's far more superior tactical knowledge. The only positive is that Wicklow's defence might find it difficult to handle the likes of Stevie and Jamie. Armagh's defence plays good one game and gets roasted on another so depends how well they perform on Wicklows forwards. Two new players have been introduced to the Armagh team with 2009 minor winner McVerry and Crossmaglen's All Ireland club winner Johnny Hanratty being called up.

With the 7pm throw in the Wicklow county board have put in a request to the Armagh county board for a change in time - to 5pm.

Wicklow are Ireland's premier banana skins of late and I still shudder at the mention of the word 'Aughrim'. But I do not see any reason why Armagh should find this tie problematic, their attacking strategy worked against Down, but Derry were fully expecting it. This is a case where Armagh should revert back to their more 'brute force' type of game...a few years ago it took them a while to realise that they could knock the Down players around a bit, I'm sure O'Rourke was watching that game and he will know that if Armagh establish their physical presence on this game as well as their superior football ability they should be getting through this tie with relative ease. Home advantage will also be a big factor as well as the late timing. Wicklow will not lie down though and it will be a good game for Armagh to get their qualifier campaign sorted....provided they keep the heads and dictate the pace of the game. Wicklow will relish a stuttering and untidy game, if Armagh are direct in their play their physical strength and ability will see them through. An earlier throw-in might help Wicklow's cause and bring them a bit more support but there's no excuses for Armagh not to win this.

GAA-Fan wrote:. There is a serious shock on the cards here especially with Micko's far more superior tactical knowledge.

I think you are safe enough there GF. Motivation, yes. Fitness preparation, yes. But Micko is not exactly famed for his tactical knowledge.

Yes Micko is not so much a strategist as he is a motivator.

You can be gauranteed an honest performance from Wicklow but I wouldn't worry about fancy tactics.

It is a tricky tie for Armagh, even at home. Saturday week could bring the curtain down on the longest championship career in history - 54 years.

The fact it's at home is a bonus for Armagh but look out for Ciaran Hyland and Leighton Glynn who are two of the best in their positions, in Ireland. Players like that are often the difference in close games, and that is what I expect this to be.

POR is a tool.

Come on GAA-Fan, you can manage something a bit better than that. Sounded like a very good game on the radio but I only got the second half of extra-time. If GF or any other Armagh supporter were expecting an easy game against Wicklow, then they were seriously misguided. I suspect the replay will be just as close.

With the best interests of the forum at heart, I will say this - the ethics of GAA Tipster is all wrong.

Maybe you can add to the tool comment GF? If as I suspect you weren't at the game, (maybe had a feed?) I don't think it's fair to say anybody is a tool. Inept, incompetent, bad, poor but not a tool.

Wasnt expecting an easy game, but was expecting at least a win. I said after the draw was made that this was a potential banana skin for Armagh and thoiught that it would come down to the tactical prowess of POR and O'dwyer.

Same as Loyal I only heard the second half of extra time but it sounded good, exciting if nothing. I've always said that Seanie Furlong was a dangerous player and he definitely showed that when he scored his goal in extra time today. Armagh won't have it easy next week as Wicklow are notoriously hard to beat in Aughrim. Good luck to both teams anyway!

GAA-Fan wrote:Wasnt expecting an easy game, but was expecting at least a win. I said after the draw was made that this was a potential banana skin for Armagh and thoiught that it would come down to the tactical prowess of POR and O'dwyer.

Alright but how did O'Rourke get it so wrong?

Mick lacks tactical prowess. I don't think he'd lower himself to modern techniques at this stage of his career.

Loyal2TheRoyal wrote:

GAA-Fan wrote:Wasnt expecting an easy game, but was expecting at least a win. I said after the draw was made that this was a potential banana skin for Armagh and thoiught that it would come down to the tactical prowess of POR and O'dwyer.

Alright but how did O'Rourke get it so wrong?

Mick lacks tactical prowess. I don't think he'd lower himself to modern techniques at this stage of his career.

The introduction of Murtagh for a start. Im not the only one who thinks he isnt worthy of his place on the team.

GAA-Fan wrote:

Loyal2TheRoyal wrote:

GAA-Fan wrote:Wasnt expecting an easy game, but was expecting at least a win. I said after the draw was made that this was a potential banana skin for Armagh and thoiught that it would come down to the tactical prowess of POR and O'dwyer.

Alright but how did O'Rourke get it so wrong?

Mick lacks tactical prowess. I don't think he'd lower himself to modern techniques at this stage of his career.

The introduction of Murtagh for a start. Im not the only one who thinks he isnt worthy of his place on the team.

I think that is quite stupid.

Loyal2TheRoyal wrote:

GAA-Fan wrote:

Loyal2TheRoyal wrote:

GAA-Fan wrote:Wasnt expecting an easy game, but was expecting at least a win. I said after the draw was made that this was a potential banana skin for Armagh and thoiught that it would come down to the tactical prowess of POR and O'dwyer.

Alright but how did O'Rourke get it so wrong?

Mick lacks tactical prowess. I don't think he'd lower himself to modern techniques at this stage of his career.

The introduction of Murtagh for a start. Im not the only one who thinks he isnt worthy of his place on the team.

I think that is quite stupid.

He was taken off again 20 minutes later. No matter what way you look at it...if a player isnt injured and taken off 20 minutes later he is useless. Like I have said previously, was not expecting an easy win against Wicklow but the use of subs was poor.

Right. I will say this - you have a poor understanding of the mechanics of a senior intercounty Gaelic Football team.

Your man, Murtagh or whatever he's called, is probably training two nights a week, in the gym another two nights, possibly plays a challenge every second or third weekend for Armagh (or an in-house game). Maybe even lines out for club? (I'm not sure of procedure in Armagh - when the GAA season is in full swing). You do not see him at any of these things, do you? You are in absolutely no position to pass judegement on who starts, and who dosen't, like most supporters. The starting team was not decided by the performances in the Derry game, as you appear to think. May have influenced some decisions but it is wrong to think a player shouldn't play because he played bad before.

Joe Brolly appears to think that Paddy O'Rourke lacks the ability to respond to a changing game. I think that is what GAA-Fan is trying to articulate? I have no opinion myself. I just found it strange that a respected member of forum moderation leaves a comment labelling a manager "a tool" and made no attempt to qualify it. It is also bad practise to go round labelling intercounty footballers as useless from behind a username, especially when some are retiring in protest.

Loyal2TheRoyal wrote:Right. I will say this - you have a poor understanding of the mechanics of a senior intercounty Gaelic Football team.

Your man, Murtagh or whatever he's called, is probably training two nights a week, in the gym another two nights, possibly plays a challenge every second or third weekend for Armagh (or an in-house game). Maybe even lines out for club? (I'm not sure of procedure in Armagh - when the GAA season is in full swing). You do not see him at any of these things, do you? You are in absolutely no position to pass judegement on who starts, and who dosen't, like most supporters. The starting team was not decided by the performances in the Derry game, as you appear to think. May have influenced some decisions but it is wrong to think a player shouldn't play because he played bad before.

Joe Brolly appears to think that Paddy O'Rourke lacks the ability to respond to a changing game. I think that is what GAA-Fan is trying to articulate? I have no opinion myself. I just found it strange that a respected member of forum moderation leaves a comment labelling a manager "a tool" and made no attempt to qualify it. It is also bad practise to go round labelling intercounty footballers as useless from behind a username, especially when some are retiring in protest.

As much as you disagree, Armagh fans are allowed to have an opion on players. And while from what I have read, most including me do not rate him. It is a simple fact. I goto the gym 4 nights a week, and traing 2 nights a week does that mean I should play for Armagh? No. Because the simple fact of the matter is, is that I know im **** and know that I would be taking a players place. As much as Armagh fans appreciate his efforts for Armagh, the harsh reality is, is that he is not good enough.

Loyal, believe me when I say this, Murtagh is not county standard. GAA fans with a functioning eye sight can see this, even go on to the Armagh forum and you will see that he is not rated at this level. He is not to blame, it is the management for allowing him to play. I am pointing out the fact that Murtagh has not done anything worth while in an Armagh jersey - only for the fact that he is related to Donal Murtagh. Players that were on the minor team a few years ago came on and made more of an impact than him. What I am getting at is POR should have made the changes a lot earlier - a mistake he does not seem to learn from. I will give POR was ounce of credit, if he is given enough time to learn about a team he usually has a good chance of taking them on.

Even look at the managements decisions against Derry....He left the defence to get slaughtered. As mugsy described it, the team were left to be slaughtered from the sideline. POR brought forwards on when Armagh were having a lot of difficulty dealing with Derry's forwards. Also, Wicklow should be credited for their performance and they certainly made the game pulsating. I dont expect Armagh to win every game and with no disrespect to Wicklow, Armagh should have won today and I did suggest it would come down to POR and O'Dwyer.

I don't know what to say anymore.

Loyal2TheRoyal wrote:I don't know what to say anymore.

The only thing that is going to change for the replay Loyal is Armagh's desire to win. I honestly doubt POR's tactical ability is going to have an impact on the replay. Feel free do disagree but im in a pessimistic mood at the moment.

Yow mean his team selection.

Loyal2TheRoyal wrote:Yow mean his team selection.

The weird thing is that he got the team selection right for once - he fielded one of the strongest teams he could have.

Two also rans - doesn't really matter .....

And Micko is the least tactically astute manager in the country. When God serves you up some of the best players to ever kick a ball you can't lose .... and it makes you look good too ...

Will this result mean that one match in round 3, 4 of the qualifiers and one quarter final have to be put back? Aughrim is an absolute dump. Hard to get to and hard to get out of. You can be assured there will be a massive Wicklow crowd and try to use home advantage to intimidate Armagh but usually the underdog only gets one bite of the cherry and I can only see an Armagh victory.

Aughrim a dump eh hurling guru? I guess a Carlow man would be a bit of an authority on that to be fair.

GAA-Fan wrote:

Loyal2TheRoyal wrote:

GAA-Fan wrote:

Loyal2TheRoyal wrote:

GAA-Fan wrote:Wasnt expecting an easy game, but was expecting at least a win. I said after the draw was made that this was a potential banana skin for Armagh and thoiught that it would come down to the tactical prowess of POR and O'dwyer.

Alright but how did O'Rourke get it so wrong?

Mick lacks tactical prowess. I don't think he'd lower himself to modern techniques at this stage of his career.

The introduction of Murtagh for a start. Im not the only one who thinks he isnt worthy of his place on the team.

I think that is quite stupid.

He was taken off again 20 minutes later. No matter what way you look at it...if a player isnt injured and taken off 20 minutes later he is useless. Like I have said previously, was not expecting an easy win against Wicklow but the use of subs was poor.

Have to say i agree about Murtagh but i would say that every other substitute he made contributed big time to Armaghs comeback. We were getting destroyed at midfield untill Hanratty came on, he added alot of physicality to the midfield. McParland did well to score the equalising point and got involved in other scores. Tony Kernan did well when he came on and played some great ballls into Clarke and McDonnell (as were in first half we were just hoofing it into them). Decky McKenna also did well to help tighten a defence that was getting torn apart. He also made a good move by putting Vernon to half forward and swapping Mackin (who won a serious amount of ball and kicked some nice points in second half) with McDonnell who went to half forward who along with Tony Kernan improved the quality of ball that went into full forward.

POR is not to blame for guys making errors that an u12 would not make, fumbling balls, fist passes being intercepted and defenders letting their opponents more less walking past them.

A brilliant match to watch but one we threw away, 2 points up at the end of normal time and the same at end of extra time and conceeded late goals. Was pleased how they did not drop their heads and hit equalising points. Wicklow took a great support to Armagh last night with many staying up and drinking about the town (probably couldnt believe price of a pint). was talking to a few who were over the moon with the result and seemed to be having a great night so fair play to them.

Lug wrote:Aughrim a dump eh hurling guru? I guess a Carlow man would be a bit of an authority on that to be fair.

Ok maybe I was a bit unfair but it wouldn't be up with the best.

I think my fellow Down Gael Paddy O'Rourke is getting a fair bit of undue slack here. The thing about Paddy is, just as he was as a player, he revels in adversity. He took the Down job in 2003 when no-one else wanted it...taking over a team with an attitude that even the great Pete McGrath couldn't handle. Before O'Rourke's arrival Down had actually slid into the 'minnows' category of Championship football....now O'Rourke made plenty of mistakes but there is no doubt that the team were just not up to scratch. So much expectation had been placed on the likes of Coulter and the minor class of '99 and Down people expected miracles which never came. Now I always said O'Rourke wasn't the man to bring Down silverware....but James McCartan wouldn't have been the right choice of manager in 2003. O'Rourke's tenure was the start of the gradual re-emergence of Down as a team to be feared. He took the job and I have always respected him for it...he was treated like s**t by the County Board and in many cases by the Down supporters.

Now when the Armagh post was last made available...it wasn't exactly an attractive position. O'Rourke took the job...and the team that everyone said was 'done' went on to win Division 2, were not so far off Dublin in the Championship, secured their position on Division 1, and defeated the All-Ireland finalists and fierce rivals Down in Ulster. He made a mistake against Derry ....not an unforgivable one, the attacking strategy had worked against Down and maybe he was naive to expect the players to produce the same high level of performance they put in against Down. O'Rourke is a winner, a man who is decorated with almost every honour a footballer can receive, and he surely expects players to step up to the mark. The Down players during his tenure didn't (this was admitted by the players themselves in a statement appealing to the clubs not to vote O'Rourke out of the job) and so far Armagh, who are by no means a brilliant side, have shown flashes of real high quality. And when you think about it....had Steven McDonnell buried that goal chance (the one he missed that resulted immediately in a Derry counter attack goal) the game might have been closer.

Like I said, O'Rourke hasn't achieved much as an intercounty manager, and that's because he took the jobs that few others would touch and did his best with limited sides. Benny Coulter still rates Paddy as one of his favourite managers...because he is a good man manager...perhaps not in the mickey Harte Mould of tactical awareness but a man who has done well to get both Down and Armagh off their knees. I don't think he'll win any major silverware with Armagh ...and I don't think he's the man for that job. But a few years down the line, when say Kieran McGeeney leads Armagh to Sam...some of the players might look back and say that Paddy O'Rourke certainly wasn't the man for the job of winning the All-Ireland, but there was no better man for the job when Armagh looked dead in the water.

O'Rourke got players like Benny Coulter, Liam Doyle, Dan Gordon performing and long after he was gone they proved crucial to Down's chances over the years.