All Ireland Minor Hurling Championship

Jayo Cluxton wrote:Some of the stuff from the minors yesterday was awesome. McCaffrey took a catch which was unbelievable, Kilkenny and Costello took some scores and O'Conghaile was excellent. Not much posting about them here funny enough. Performance may have shut some up.

only saw 5 minutes of it so can't comment

The Puke wrote:only saw 5 minutes of it so can't comment

Never stopped you before ......

I enjoyed the topsy-turvy nature of this game's second half. Good game.

One comment I'd like to make.......Dublin are the best conditioned minor side I've ever seen. 17-18 year old boys? Don't look like them. I'm no physician but is it a good idea to be putting young teenagers on gym programmes and specialised diets before they've fully filled out in their frames?

Play this game again in three years with the same personnel - I think Waterford would win. Of course, that's hypothetical but you get the point I'm making.......

The number ten (Kilkenny?) and number thirteen (Costello?) for Dublin look very good and they might be the type of forwards the senior team needs in the years to come. I'd say they will be in the senior team inside two years.

Jayo Cluxton wrote:Interesting to hear what the hurling experts here think now ....

My comment is above Jayo.

Jayo Cluxton wrote:

The Puke wrote:only saw 5 minutes of it so can't comment

Never stopped you before ......

Please state another example on this forum where I have analysed a game I never saw?

Also I noticed you ran away from the debate when I picked apart your arguement about Kerry have no underage success

[quote="Loyal2TheRoyal"]I enjoyed the topsy-turvy nature of this game's second half. Good game.

One comment I'd like to make.......Dublin are the best conditioned minor side I've ever seen. 17-18 year old boys? Don't look like them. I'm no physician but is it a good idea to be putting young teenagers on gym programmes and specialised diets before they've fully filled out in their frames?

they are not on any special programme they are trained just like the galway or kilkenny or clare team , they are just good strong hurlers there is no secret at all , and getting on about gym programmes and diets well there is nothing wrong with that if done right , did you ever here of training to train ?

The Puke wrote:

Jayo Cluxton wrote:

The Puke wrote:only saw 5 minutes of it so can't comment

Never stopped you before ......

Please state another example on this forum where I have analysed a game I never saw?

Also I noticed you ran away from the debate when I picked apart your arguement about Kerry have no underage success

Ran away me hole - my point is well made on that - your contribution is the usual waffle and point bending ....

Jayo Cluxton wrote:

The Puke wrote:

Jayo Cluxton wrote:

The Puke wrote:only saw 5 minutes of it so can't comment

Never stopped you before ......

Please state another example on this forum where I have analysed a game I never saw?

Also I noticed you ran away from the debate when I picked apart your arguement about Kerry have no underage success

Ran away me hole - my point is well made on that - your contribution is the usual waffle and point bending ....

There was no waffle, simply stating the fact that Kerry's reord at underage for the last 30 years is as good as any county. Which you for some reason refuse to acknowledge

Beating Cork to win a Munster title does not constitute success in my opinion. Its like saying England have a great record in the Calcutta Cup .....

Jayo Cluxton wrote:Beating Cork to win a Munster title does not constitute success in my opinion. Its like saying England have a great record in the Calcutta Cup .....

They have made 8 under 21 A/I finals in the last 20 years - winning 5 of them, which is the best record in in the country in that time at that grade. Pretty much makes your point of them only having cork to beat and having little success at underage completely invalid. If Kerry have had no underage success what counties have?

The Puke wrote:

Jayo Cluxton wrote:Beating Cork to win a Munster title does not constitute success in my opinion. Its like saying England have a great record in the Calcutta Cup .....

They have made 8 under 21 A/I finals in the last 20 years - winning 5 of them, which is the best record in in the country in that time at that grade. Pretty much makes your point of them only having cork to beat and having little success at underage completely invalid. If Kerry have had no underage success what counties have?

I'm talking minors here

Jayo Cluxton wrote:

The Puke wrote:

Jayo Cluxton wrote:Beating Cork to win a Munster title does not constitute success in my opinion. Its like saying England have a great record in the Calcutta Cup .....

They have made 8 under 21 A/I finals in the last 20 years - winning 5 of them, which is the best record in in the country in that time at that grade. Pretty much makes your point of them only having cork to beat and having little success at underage completely invalid. If Kerry have had no underage success what counties have?

I'm talking minors here

You never mentioned minors in your initial post, but if you want to change the goalposts rather than admit you are wrong then fair enough. As stated previously but again you never responded over the last thirty years only Cork and Tyrone have won more minor A/I titles and only Cork have appeared in more A/i minor finals than them in that time. Again if their record at minor level in that time is deemed a failure then what does that make the other 29 counties?

The original point I made was that Kerry's senior success was not backboned by success at underage - it was a compliment to them and making the point that underage success was not a pre-requisite for senior success.

Kerry stats (All Ireland winners) since 1997.

Minor: None
U21: 98, 08.
Senior: 97, 04, 06, 07 09.

I stand by the point.

Jayo Cluxton wrote:Beating Cork to win a Munster title does not constitute success in my opinion. Its like saying England have a great record in the Calcutta Cup .....

Agree, Calcutta poor underage teams for years!

Jayo Cluxton wrote:The original point I made was that Kerry's senior success was not backboned by success at underage - it was a compliment to them and making the point that underage success was not a pre-requisite for senior success.

Kerry stats (All Ireland winners) since 1997.

Minor: None
U21: 98, 08.
Senior: 97, 04, 06, 07 09.

I stand by the point.

And you ignored the point i made about the development of players at that age which is more important that underage success the fact that they have won 10 of the last 16 muntser titles means that the majority of their minor sides were playing well into the summer and this is huge in the development of players at that age. Now you don't seem to acknowledge the munster championship as worth winning form some reason desoite the fact that Kerry and Cork are the two most successful sides at minor level in the country, as they are at under 21's as well


I agree that underage and senior success don't go hand in hand and said as much but to try and maintain that Kerry are also rans or poor at underage level is simply not true and their record down through the years is excellent and barring the odd freak result they have always been competitive at underage, which can't be said of the majority of other counties. the fact that they also have a very well structured club championship is also of huge significance in the development of young players

99% of the time Cork or Kerry underage will always be playing into July/August - its a no brainer. Because they are training on summers evenings does not necessarily make them good teams. Beating Clare, Waterford, Limerick and Tipp (most of the time) does not represent any achievement.

Fact of the matter is that barring Cork in 2000 no Munster team has won the title in this millennium.

Jayo Cluxton wrote:99% of the time Cork or Kerry underage will always be playing into July/August - its a no brainer. Because they are training on summers evenings does not necessarily make them good teams. Beating Clare, Waterford, Limerick and Tipp (most of the time) does not represent any achievement.

Fact of the matter is that barring Cork in 2000 no Munster team has won the title in this millennium.

Where did I say it made them good teams but if you cannot see the benefits a minor team in terms of development would get from training into August as opposed to being knocked out in April then you honestly have your head in the sand. Just because there is more teams in other provinces does not mean that the standard of minor football is any higher, Galway and Mayo have also dominated connaght in a similar fashion but have struggled to turn provincial title into A/I appearances and victories, so to say that the less teams means an easier ride is nonsense. Again success is relative and the fact that Kerry are involved in the business end of the championship most years means and their club structures that they have a better chance of developing their players into quality I/C footballers. Their record in terms of success is as good as any other team in the country. you seem to think that just because Cork and Kerry are superior to the other 4 counties in the province that it downgrades the importance of it, but again the fact is that they are the two most successful counties in the country in terms of All Ireland Final victories and appearances. Using your logic half of the province of Leinster have never won an A/I minor title does this downgrade the leinster championship?

I said Munster titles mean fook all - and they don't. Less teams? Yes - two. And that is senior too. Connaught is not too dissimilar. Leinster has 12 and you will usually get 5/6 decent teams, Ulster similar with 9.

Anyhow you are wandering off now making stupid comments/comparisons that have no relevance to the point I made here.

Again - the original point I made was that Kerry's senior success was not backboned by success at underage - it was a compliment to them and making the point that underage success was not a pre-requisite for senior success.

Kerry stats (All Ireland winners) since 1997.

Minor: None
U21: 98, 08.
Senior: 97, 04, 06, 07 09.

I stand by the point.


Btw what minor c'ship starts (ends!) in April?

Jayo Cluxton wrote:I said Munster titles mean fook all - and they don't. Less teams? Yes - two. And that is senior too. Connaught is not too dissimilar. Leinster has 12 and you will usually get 5/6 decent teams, Ulster similar with 9.

Anyhow you are wandering off now making stupid comments/comparisons that have no relevance to the point I made here.

Again - the original point I made was that Kerry's senior success was not backboned by success at underage - it was a compliment to them and making the point that underage success was not a pre-requisite for senior success.

Kerry stats (All Ireland winners) since 1997.

Minor: None
U21: 98, 08.
Senior: 97, 04, 06, 07 09.

I stand by the point.


Btw what minor c'ship starts (ends!) in April?

Where did I say a minor champiosnhip ends in April. there are teams that have been knocked out of the minor championship by the end of April alright in both Leinster and Connaught. how do you know the teams coming out of Leinster are decent, Dublin aside the rest of the provinces record is quite poor if we are to apply your logic and judge it strictly in All Ireland titles. 10 between 11 counties in nearly 80 years

2011 Dublin 2-18 Meath 1-11
2010 Longford 0-14 Offaly 0-08
2009 Dublin 1-10 1-15 Kildare 1-10 1-10
2008 Meath 1-14 Offaly 2-10
2007 Laois 3-08 Carlow 1-12
2006 Meath 1-16 Offaly 2-05
2005 Laois 1-12 Offaly 1-07
2004 Laois 0-10 Kildare 0-06
2003 Dublin 1-11 Laois 1-09
2002 Longford 3-08 Meath 3-05
2001 Dublin 1-17 Offaly 0-06
2000 Westmeath 2-09 Dublin 1-10

8 counties out of 12 - 5 different winners

2011 Tipperary 3-11 Cork 1-09
2010 Cork 1-07 Kerry 1-06
2009 Kerry 0-12 Tipperary 0-06
2008 Kerry 1-09 2-12 Tipperary 1-09 0-08
2007 Cork 1-16 Kerry 2-08
2006 Kerry 1-13 Tipperary 0-08
2005 Cork 3-08 Kerry 1-11
2004 Kerry 0-09 0-13 Cork 0-09 1-07
2003 Kerry 1-14 Cork 0-10
2002 Kerry 3-16 Tipperary 2-06
2001 Kerry 0-15 Cork 0-12
2000 Cork 1-13 Kerry 0-14

Not a sign of Clare, Waterford or Limerick.

2011 Roscommon 1-09 Galway 0-06
2010 Mayo 3-09 Galway 1-10
2009 Mayo 1-05 1-08 Roscommon 0-08 0-05
2008 Mayo 0-10 Roscommon 0-07
2007 Galway 2-07 Roscommon 0-09
2006 Roscommon 0-12 Mayo 0-09
2005 Galway 0-10 Mayo 0-09
2004 Galway 3-10 Roscommon 2-10
2003 Galway 1-09 Mayo 0-09
2002 Galway 1-12 Leitrim 0-06
2001 Mayo 1-08 0-15 Galway 0-11 0-11
2000 Mayo 1-12 Roscommon 1-08

No sign of Sligo - one from Leitrim.

2011 Cavan 0-12 Armagh 1-06
2010 Tyrone 1-14 Armagh 0-05
2009 Armagh 1-08 Down 1-05
2008 Tyrone 0-13 Monaghan 0-10
2007 Tyrone 0-10 Derry 1-06
2006 Donegal 2-12 Antrim 1-05
2005 Armagh 0-11 Down 0-10
2004 Tyrone 0-11 0-15 Down 0-11 0-8
2003 Tyrone 3-09 Fermanagh 0-09
2002 Derry 0-12 Tyrone 0-11
2001 Tyrone 2-13 Monaghan 0-13
2000 Derry 2-11 Tyrone 1-11

All counties have been in the final since 2000

Now Puke - fook off and don't be bothering me.

Jayo Cluxton wrote:2011 Dublin 2-18 Meath 1-11
2010 Longford 0-14 Offaly 0-08
2009 Dublin 1-10 1-15 Kildare 1-10 1-10
2008 Meath 1-14 Offaly 2-10
2007 Laois 3-08 Carlow 1-12
2006 Meath 1-16 Offaly 2-05
2005 Laois 1-12 Offaly 1-07
2004 Laois 0-10 Kildare 0-06
2003 Dublin 1-11 Laois 1-09
2002 Longford 3-08 Meath 3-05
2001 Dublin 1-17 Offaly 0-06
2000 Westmeath 2-09 Dublin 1-10

8 counties out of 12 - 5 different winners

2011 Tipperary 3-11 Cork 1-09
2010 Cork 1-07 Kerry 1-06
2009 Kerry 0-12 Tipperary 0-06
2008 Kerry 1-09 2-12 Tipperary 1-09 0-08
2007 Cork 1-16 Kerry 2-08
2006 Kerry 1-13 Tipperary 0-08
2005 Cork 3-08 Kerry 1-11
2004 Kerry 0-09 0-13 Cork 0-09 1-07
2003 Kerry 1-14 Cork 0-10
2002 Kerry 3-16 Tipperary 2-06
2001 Kerry 0-15 Cork 0-12
2000 Cork 1-13 Kerry 0-14

Not a sign of Clare, Waterford or Limerick.

2011 Roscommon 1-09 Galway 0-06
2010 Mayo 3-09 Galway 1-10
2009 Mayo 1-05 1-08 Roscommon 0-08 0-05
2008 Mayo 0-10 Roscommon 0-07
2007 Galway 2-07 Roscommon 0-09
2006 Roscommon 0-12 Mayo 0-09
2005 Galway 0-10 Mayo 0-09
2004 Galway 3-10 Roscommon 2-10
2003 Galway 1-09 Mayo 0-09
2002 Galway 1-12 Leitrim 0-06
2001 Mayo 1-08 0-15 Galway 0-11 0-11
2000 Mayo 1-12 Roscommon 1-08

No sign of Sligo - one from Leitrim.

2011 Cavan 0-12 Armagh 1-06
2010 Tyrone 1-14 Armagh 0-05
2009 Armagh 1-08 Down 1-05
2008 Tyrone 0-13 Monaghan 0-10
2007 Tyrone 0-10 Derry 1-06
2006 Donegal 2-12 Antrim 1-05
2005 Armagh 0-11 Down 0-10
2004 Tyrone 0-11 0-15 Down 0-11 0-8
2003 Tyrone 3-09 Fermanagh 0-09
2002 Derry 0-12 Tyrone 0-11
2001 Tyrone 2-13 Monaghan 0-13
2000 Derry 2-11 Tyrone 1-11

All counties have been in the final since 2000

Now Puke - fook off and don't be bothering me.

Again how do you know that that standard is better you just seem to keep making generalisations and have nothing to back it up, of course you are going to have a better spread of winners in a competition that has twice as many teams but you seem to dismiss Munster out of hand yet you are lauding the Leinster champioship despite the fact that the Dubs aside the rest of the provinces record at A/I level is poor to say the least. and again it brings me back to my initial point which you are still failing to comprehend, success at underage level is reletive and shouldn't be just measured in A/I titles and to dismiss Kerry at underage due to the fact that they have been far more successful at senior level is myopic thinking and shows a complete lack of understanding of player development. i doubt anyone in Wexford or Cavan or Tipp last year were calling their under 21 sides this year unsuccessful because they didn't win the A/I, so why should it be different for Kerry. Their underage record is as good as what is in the country and your initial point was trying to make out that they were also rans at underage level which they most certainly not

I'll try once more.

Kerry stats (All Ireland winners) since 1997.

Minor: None
U21: 98, 08.
Senior: 97, 04, 06, 07 09.

Wow - fair play to Kerry who have won 4 All Irelands in the Noughties with little relative underage success at AI level. Just shows you underage success is not everything and does not guarantee senior success.

Anyway back to the thread. Dublin to have too much for Galway in the Final ....

A repeat of the 83 final when a certain Niall Quinn was man-of-the-match despite ending up on the losing side. The Galway side contained the likes of Cooney, Cunningham and McInerney.

This is a very strong minor team - in every sense. Expecting them to deliver and their U21 counterparts to emulate ....