Re: The Premier League

**patrique** Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:54 pm

Biggest spenders does not equal richest club. Big spenders end up with debt of 789 million.

Now let's take an honest look at Tevez at United.

In the first year does well, scores all the important late winners and equalisers as United win the league and the CL. However fergie is indulging one player who does not have to come up to scratch with work rate, so Rooney and Tevez have to "run" for Ronaldo.

In 2009 United are not just as good and Fergie has decided to indulge Ronaldo for one last year. He is up front on his own. Fergie realises that Rooney is a better emergency left back, covering for Ronaldo, that Tevez, and hey as a runner and enforcer Fletcher is better than Tevez.

But Ronaldo goes. Now Fergie knows, because I know, that Tevez can play a leading role as a striker and all round play maker, complete with work rate. But the Glazers are not prepared to, pay for that talent, so Tevez goes.

Rooney has a wonderful season, as did Tevez with a lesser team, actually scoring more in england than Rooney, but now Rooney wants away.

Oh dear. But Jon, stop trying to wind up about Tevez. He is averaging a goal a game in the premiership for the last year. As well as leading the team, winning the ball and all the rest. Immense player, or as a bloke said on Sunday "now there's a real player".

**Boxtyeater** Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:59 pm

Guest Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:12 pm

patrique wrote:Biggest spenders does not equal richest club. Big spenders end up with debt of 789 million.

So Madrid were great then to run up debt to win european titles? Something Ferguson didnt do

Now let's take an honest look at Tevez at United.

In the first year does well, scores all the important late winners and equalisers as United win the league and the CL. However fergie is indulging one player who does not have to come up to scratch with work rate, so Rooney and Tevez have to "run" for Ronaldo.

In 2009 United are not just as good and Fergie has decided to indulge Ronaldo for one last year. He is up front on his own. Fergie realises that Rooney is a better emergency left back, covering for Ronaldo, that Tevez, and hey as a runner and enforcer Fletcher is better than Tevez.

But Ronaldo goes. Now Fergie knows, because I know, that Tevez can play a leading role as a striker and all round play maker, complete with work rate. But the Glazers are not prepared to, pay for that talent, so Tevez goes.

Rooney has a wonderful season, as did Tevez with a lesser team, actually scoring more in england than Rooney, but now Rooney wants away.

Oh dear. But Jon, stop trying to wind up about Tevez. He is averaging a goal a game in the premiership for the last year. As well as leading the team, winning the ball and all the rest. Immense player, or as a bloke said on Sunday "now there's a real player".

Totally agree with you about Tevez and have never argued otherwise, nor have i ever argued that Ferguson has never made a **** up (Vernon, Kleberson, Djemba Djemba are evidence enough), all im saying is those who are anti-Ferguson point to his record in Europe when reality is that 2 european cups should not be sniffed at.

**Jayo Cluxton** Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:18 pm

**patrique** Wed Oct 20, 2010 10:50 pm

samin10 wrote:
patrique wrote:Biggest spenders does not equal richest club. Big spenders end up with debt of 789 million.

So Madrid were great then to run up debt to win european titles? Something Ferguson didnt do

Now let's take an honest look at Tevez at United.

In the first year does well, scores all the important late winners and equalisers as United win the league and the CL. However fergie is indulging one player who does not have to come up to scratch with work rate, so Rooney and Tevez have to "run" for Ronaldo.

In 2009 United are not just as good and Fergie has decided to indulge Ronaldo for one last year. He is up front on his own. Fergie realises that Rooney is a better emergency left back, covering for Ronaldo, that Tevez, and hey as a runner and enforcer Fletcher is better than Tevez.

But Ronaldo goes. Now Fergie knows, because I know, that Tevez can play a leading role as a striker and all round play maker, complete with work rate. But the Glazers are not prepared to, pay for that talent, so Tevez goes.

Rooney has a wonderful season, as did Tevez with a lesser team, actually scoring more in england than Rooney, but now Rooney wants away.

Oh dear. But Jon, stop trying to wind up about Tevez. He is averaging a goal a game in the premiership for the last year. As well as leading the team, winning the ball and all the rest. Immense player, or as a bloke said on Sunday "now there's a real player".

Totally agree with you about Tevez and have never argued otherwise, nor have i ever argued that Ferguson has never made a **** up (Vernon, Kleberson, Djemba Djemba are evidence enough), all im saying is those who are anti-Ferguson point to his record in Europe when reality is that 2 european cups should not be sniffed at.

Samin, BIG clubs sack managers who only win 2 in 3 years, like Del Bosque.

Guest Thu Oct 21, 2010 11:34 am

BIG clubs, you mean Real Madrid? The vast majority of clubs recognise success and reward managers with ccontracts and extra investment. Real Madrid have been a bit of a disaster zone the past 6 or 7 years mainly due to swapping and changing managers. I think if Mourinho gets a few years in charge he will re-establish Madrid as the top team in europe, but sure being the well run club that they are he will probably get the sack

**Jayo Cluxton** Sat Oct 23, 2010 12:10 am

I have no doubt Mourinho will bring success to Real. The problem may be how it is achieved. Real fans etc demand champagne football AND success. Mourinho will bring pragmatism and trophies - whether it is in the manner acceptable to the fans remains to be seen. Others have had success but lost their jobs because it was not the Real Madrid way.

**patrique** Sun Oct 24, 2010 3:09 am

Speaking of managers.....Mark Hughes.

Week in week out he has eleven starters and 3 subs available to him. Yet week in week out he loses to the referee who is but one, albeit with two linesmen.

But even so, you'd reckon Mark could beat at least one referee, one week.

How come Fulham and all the clubs mark managed never play against anyone else bar refs?

**Jayo Cluxton** Tue Nov 02, 2010 11:03 pm

Gareth Bale is a serious footballer ... I reckon Massimo Moratti will be frantically waving the chequebook at the North Londoners. Perhaps he will only get the 5th choice striker ... again.

What a pity Bale was born about 40 miles west ... Mad

Seems to have a great attitude etc but how long before he is 'poisoned' .....

**Grenvile** Tue Nov 02, 2010 11:16 pm

Jayo Cluxton wrote:Gareth Bale is a serious footballer ... I reckon Massimo Moratti will be frantically waving the chequebook at the North Londoners. Perhaps he will only get the 5th choice striker ... again.

What a pity Bale was born about 40 miles west ... Seems to have a great attitude etc but how long before he is 'poisoned' .....

He looked class tonight. His pace is something else and he absolutely destroyed Inter's defence.. That said he's not being as well in the league after a great start. VDV was a serious bit of business at 8 million too. Good to see Tottenham doing well they're a good side to watch.

**patrique** Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:57 pm

Gareth Bale is a surprise to European teams.

I was horrified to discover that Everton simply put PHIL NEVILLE on him to nullify him, and man United kept him fairly quiet.

Note Phil used to play for United.

The moral? Do not employ footballers such as Maicon against Bale. In England kicking people works best.

**Jayo Cluxton** Wed Nov 03, 2010 11:24 pm

patrique wrote: In England kicking people works best.

Yaw - something the Italians have never resorted to ....

**Grenvile** Thu Nov 04, 2010 11:12 pm

City show how much they've improved a few years ago they would have been looking at an 8 or 9 goal defeat to Poland's finest. Managed to keep it to 2 goals tonight and no arguments on the pitch. £500 Million well spent by Sheik.

Gerard showed he can still turn it on when needs be, Liverpool have a huge amount of hangers on though..

**patrique** Thu Nov 04, 2010 11:17 pm

Jonsmith wrote:City show how much they've improved a few years ago they would have been looking at an 8 or 9 goal defeat to Poland's finest. Managed to keep it to 2 goals tonight and no arguments on the pitch. £500 Million well spent by Sheik.

Gerard showed he can still turn it on when needs be, Liverpool have a huge amount of hangers on though..

Where City playing tonight on a Thursday? What in?

Did they win?

**patrique** Thu Nov 04, 2010 11:21 pm

Jaysus Jon ye had me worried.

The Europa Cup. That's the one Bolton played their 3rd team in a few years back, and Aston Villa didn't even send any team.

Mind you, I see Adebayor scored again. He must be better than Berbatov, Nani, Bale, and all the others put together.

Oops sorry,the media are not allowed to praise City. Lucky Van der Vaart didn't go there, he would be deemed a complete failure on his displays so far.

it's hard getting used to being a big club.

**Grenvile** Thu Nov 04, 2010 11:39 pm

A big club? Man City? lol!

The only football Man City will be playing on a Champions League night will be if Johnson Hart and Given have a kick about on the way home from the pub.

Still though losing away in the Mickey Mouse Cup is nothing to be ashamed of. A few more years and another 500 Million and you might challenge for it like Boro and Fulham did. Be patient though City aren't near that level just yet.

**Jayo Cluxton** Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:17 am

Mancini (whom I have never rated) has lost the dressing room and will be hearing arrivederci soon. I will lay a bet here that Man U will not be in tbe Champs League within 5 years after this one .. takers? And when I see the draw I will post decent odds on their lack of progress in the CL this year. They are one ordinary team away from elimination...

**Grenvile** Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:27 am

Jayo Cluxton wrote:Mancini (whom I have never rated) has lost the dressing room and will be hearing arrivederci soon. I will lay a bet here that Man U will not be in tbe Champs League within 5 years after this one .. takers? And when I see the draw I will post decent odds on their lack of progress in the CL this year. They are one ordinary team away from elimination...

I'll take that bet Jayo. What kind of odds are we talking here? Just to be clear you are saying Man United won't compete in the Champions League after this year up to the season 2015/2016?
As for this year they wouldn't beat Barca or Real or Chelsea and maybe Inter would cause problems. Well capable of beating any of the rest on the night though IMO..

**Jayo Cluxton** Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:31 am

No JS - I am saying that by 2015/16 (and well before it methinks) United will not finish in the Top 4 and thus not be playing CL football ...

**Grenvile** Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:38 am

Jayo Cluxton wrote:No JS - I am saying that by 2015/16 (and well before it methinks) United will not finish in the Top 4 and thus not be playing CL football ...

So your saying United will have fallen below 4th one year at least in the next 5 years? Unless you're giving decent odds i'll pass on that one..

**Jayo Cluxton** Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:46 am

Jonsmith wrote:
Jayo Cluxton wrote:No JS - I am saying that by 2015/16 (and well before it methinks) United will not finish in the Top 4 and thus not be playing CL football ...

So your saying United will have fallen below 4th one year at least in the next 5 years? Unless you're giving decent odds i'll pass on that one..

Thats what I is saying JS. I am offering 2/1 - a Cavan man will surely jump at that ...

**Grenvile** Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:53 am

No I'll pass JC, especially given that Fergie is nearing the end of his career. Without him to get the average playing above themselves I don't know if they can do it over an extended period with no spending. Plus with the debt I'd imagine a fall from the Champions League will be the only thing that may prompt a change of ownership at the club.

**Jayo Cluxton** Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:09 am

Ah Fergie .... what a gent ...

**patrique** Sat Nov 06, 2010 2:10 pm

Jonsmith wrote:A big club? Man City?

The only football Man City will be playing on a Champions League night will be if Johnson Hart and Given have a kick about on the way home from the pub.

Still though losing away in the Mickey Mouse Cup is nothing to be ashamed of. A few more years and another 500 Million and you might challenge for it like Boro and Fulham did. Be patient though City aren't near that level just yet.

Have United ever won this trophy in its various incarnations.............

That was a rhetorical question.

I remember being at games in the 1970s when it was a real trophy, one year Juventus beat City and then United in the next round. Another year we went to see City against a duff Polish side. city were coming 2nd to Liverpool in the league those days, but the Polish team had an unknown ginger haired lad who destroyed City. He was unheard of as well, but later made something of himself. name of Boniek, best ever ginger player, although I must admit I can't think of another ginger player.

From the team the other night Milner survives for tomorrow. Admittedly City's reserve team look awesome to say United fans, because it is virtually the England team, but they are not great.

It explains why England are only ranked 6th in the world.

**patrique** Sun Nov 07, 2010 2:20 am

Right, soccerv update.

1: Is N'Zogbia the best player in the premiership?. I was thinking this a few weeks a go and am nearly convinced after tonight.

2: I note Hernandez (yellow card) didn't take too long to learn the finer arts of the game at Old Trafford.

3: Are refs stupid or are you allowed to just lash out, grab people and jump at them instead of the ball, in England.

a few examples today. Wolves man loses the ball to Bebe and then justs grabs him, plain as day right in front of the ref. Nowt given.

And N'Zogbia's disallowed effort where he was actually fouled twice but the ref ruled the other way.

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