Re: The Premier League

**Jayo Cluxton** Mon Oct 18, 2010 12:28 am

I wouldn't be arsed meself but I can see how people are happy with United's travails - their fans here were never gracious winners. I think the level of support - or the intensity of it in a lot of cases - is a sad indictment. Guys wanting Liverpool/Utd/ even West Ham to win the P'ship more than their county to win Sam / Liam ... shocking. For what died the sons of Róisín ....

**patrique** Mon Oct 18, 2010 12:48 am

Jonsmith wrote:Have I not said 3 times in the thread so far that United are playing poorly? But then again pat was arguing that United were done before they appeared in consecutive CL finals so we can be forgiven for not taking his opinion about United being finished entirely seriously...

City rode their luck, Tevez offside for the first and fouled to regain the ball for the second. City fans should be praying he doesn't get injured though as he appears to be their only scoring threat. Silva's goal was a peach.

Thanks for the recap on the United goal there pat, rewording Sky's online commentary now I see.. But really there is no need I actually watched the game. United's goals were lucky but WB's were due to bad play by United?... That's the best you can come up with...

Remember when you were good at wind ups and not so easily proved wrong? Those were better days...

I don't speak Italian.

That rules out the Italian version of sky commentary, I have no idea what way they described Uniteds goals.

and I no longer have to wind up.

City were destroyed today, over run in the 2nd half, and won. Who does that remind you off?

Blackpool goal was wrongly disallowed, and City's first was offside. The secong MIGHT have been a foul before old "sign him up" did the business.

But Blackpool deserved better, as did Newcastle the game before. And that is why City are now a threat. In the past they didn't win ugly, didn't have the players. They do now.

**Grenvile** Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:14 am

I wouldn't count winning because of 3 terrible refereeing decisions Winning Ugly. That's just luck, another ref might have called them. Had nothing got to do with the caliber of players they have really.. Even though Silva's goal was special.
I was fairly sure Tevez had fouled him why else would he go down outside his own box? Saw it again on MOTD and he did indeed foul him.

Blackpool are a great little side, going out and attacking not sticking 10 men behind the ball. I really hope they stay up, you couldn't help but like Holloway and the way he has them playing. Still thought smaller teams generally start well and fall behind after Christmas.. Hull were 4th at Christmas 2 years ago and just stayed up on the final day of the season.

By the by, is it legal for a pub to show a foreign version of Sky? I think there's a case going to the EU about it in the south, some woman owns a pub was being stopped showing it and claimed it was a breach of Free Movement of goods/services within the EU.

**patrique** Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:48 am

Jonsmith wrote:I wouldn't count winning because of 3 terrible refereeing decisions Winning Ugly. That's just luck, another ref might have called them. Had nothing got to do with the caliber of players they have really.. Even though Silva's goal was special.
I was fairly sure Tevez had fouled him why else would he go down outside his own box? Saw it again on MOTD and he did indeed foul him.

Blackpool are a great little side, going out and attacking not sticking 10 men behind the ball. I really hope they stay up, you couldn't help but like Holloway and the way he has them playing. Still thought smaller teams generally start well and fall behind after Christmas.. Hull were 4th at Christmas 2 years ago and just stayed up on the final day of the season.

By the by, is it legal for a pub to show a foreign version of Sky? I think there's a case going to the EU about it in the south, some woman owns a pub was being stopped showing it and claimed it was a breach of Free Movement of goods/services within the EU.

!: You must b3e worried if you are up this late.

2: Tevez wasn't great today but scored twice.

3: City were able to bring on 26 million worth of world cup winner who changed the whole game, so it had something to do with the quality.

4: Some lady in England is taking them to court for restraint of trade, as she paid for a licence with another company.

5: I imagine "our" channel today is completely illegal.

But I have now seen 3 City games on it this year and it is great when there is no commentary.

**Boxtyeater** Mon Oct 18, 2010 3:15 am

Jonsmith wrote:.

By the by, is it legal for a pub to show a foreign version of Sky? I think there's a case going to the EU about it in the south, some woman owns a pub was being stopped showing it and claimed it was a breach of Free Movement of goods/services within the EU.

The budding legal egret (if its the correct word) appears badly exposed here.....FFS, a dude "studying law" ...A full solid "dole merchant" knows the score.....

Smithy sighs uncontrollably.....Omar knows a DJ of my acquaintance....KP would.......

**OMAR** Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:44 am

Well Colleen seems to be packing Roos Trackie Bottoms, hoody and Playstation 3 into to Louis Vutton cases as they prepare to jump in teh Range Rover Vogue and head to pastures new - Though unless pastures new could mean Costa Dorado or Madrid ? - Might seem appealing in January - Though Rooney seems to be the type of player that will be more popular in the UK than in England - Not sure he has the Aesthetic qualities that Real like for selling jerseys a la Kaka or Ronaldo.

Well in any casethe interest bill gets covered for 2011 and maybe a few months into 2012 - after Ronaldo took care of the last 18 months.

The medium term business plan was always going to be sell Ronaldo and rooney and pray that there is no stall on the Global TV rights - Gets tougher from here on in - As the Glaziers are faced with a bit of a conundrum - They will now have the cash and should still scramble a European spot - but the value of the TV rights falls if they are not making healthy progress in the C League which means they have to offlload the next "Global Star" - Fletcher- Nani ?
Has all the qualities of a death Spiral

In summary the yneed a debt free owner and they need one fast - Also the thing about having a strong dictorial personality managing any team with a rod of Iron - means that people are afraid to challenge the lunacy and senility when it creeps in - hence its left to rule for 2-3 years longer than might be the case in a democracy as one is given a free ride on past success

**patrique** Mon Oct 18, 2010 6:33 pm

OMAR wrote:Well Colleen seems to be packing Roos Trackie Bottoms, hoody and Playstation 3 into to Louis Vutton cases as they prepare to jump in teh Range Rover Vogue and head to pastures new - Though unless pastures new could mean Costa Dorado or Madrid ? - Might seem appealing in January - Though Rooney seems to be the type of player that will be more popular in the UK than in England - Not sure he has the Aesthetic qualities that Real like for selling jerseys a la Kaka or Ronaldo.

Well in any casethe interest bill gets covered for 2011 and maybe a few months into 2012 - after Ronaldo took care of the last 18 months.

The medium term business plan was always going to be sell Ronaldo and rooney and pray that there is no stall on the Global TV rights - Gets tougher from here on in - As the Glaziers are faced with a bit of a conundrum - They will now have the cash and should still scramble a European spot - but the value of the TV rights falls if they are not making healthy progress in the C League which means they have to offlload the next "Global Star" - Fletcher- Nani ?
Has all the qualities of a death Spiral

In summary the yneed a debt free owner and they need one fast - Also the thing about having a strong dictorial personality managing any team with a rod of Iron - means that people are afraid to challenge the lunacy and senility when it creeps in - hence its left to rule for 2-3 years longer than might be the case in a democracy as one is given a free ride on past success

Don't hold back Omar, give it to us straight. We can take it.

**Grenvile** Mon Oct 18, 2010 7:59 pm

Omar if the glazers are holding out for the Tv rights situation thing to change, is that something that is even in the process of changing? It seems strange that they would run down the value of their investment by servicing this debt for so long unless they were reasonably sure that it was going to change before United fall out of the top 4 which could happen in the next 3 years, assuming SAF doesn't leave..

Guest Mon Oct 18, 2010 8:07 pm

Jonsmith wrote:Omar if the glazers are holding out for the Tv rights situation thing to change, is that something that is even in the process of changing? It seems strange that they would run down the value of their investment by servicing this debt for so long unless they were reasonably sure that it was going to change before United fall out of the top 4 which could happen in the next 3 years, assuming SAF doesn't leave..

Who is SAF?

**Grenvile** Mon Oct 18, 2010 8:18 pm

Sir Alex Ferguson. king

**OMAR** Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:05 pm

samin10 wrote:
Jonsmith wrote:Omar if the glazers are holding out for the Tv rights situation thing to change, is that something that is even in the process of changing? It seems strange that they would run down the value of their investment by servicing this debt for so long unless they were reasonably sure that it was going to change before United fall out of the top 4 which could happen in the next 3 years, assuming SAF doesn't leave..

Who is SAF?

To be honest haven't any great feel for when the global TV rights are going to change - however
as with any investment the news is in the price a long time before the event - glaziers bought in as the world was moving towards this eventuality - Money was cheap and they could afford to sit on their hands- The world changed - Credit crunch - recession etc and the price of money went up hence when they refinanced the maths don't work as nice as they did in 04 or 05.
So now they sell out in a recession and take a bath or wait for the world to turn again and for the optimism of global TC money to create a buying frenzy and the value

however to stay in the game they need to generate cash - If they feel investment markets are turning and the chinese or the Saudis are jostling to buy in they will hang on - even if Utd drop to a 5th or 6th place team they wuill hope that the buyer will feel that once they spend an extra 100m on players they can turn the ship around.

All in all though its simply a game of poker-try and stay in the game keep a few chips on teh table and hope that your luck changes. - Not exactly spirit if Busby stuff.

**bocerty** Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:36 pm

its a pretty daft game of poker they are playing OMAR - if Rooney goes, and i have little doubt he will as there is only one winner when Fergie takes the notion - whats left? There are no more golden geese to sell to service their debt. Next big asset would be Vidic and they would be lucky to get £20m for him. They wouldnt even have a star to make them money on merchandise.

I was a pretty avid Utd fan in my time would have made the odd journey across the pond to watch them play but must confess now i would barely watch them or anyone else on the TV - I'd rather watch a re-run of yesterdays Galway final!!!!!

Utd are heading the same way as Liverpool and if Glazers get stung like messrs Hicks and Gillette they have only themselves to blame. Though it is pretty surprising that none of these mega rich tycoons have tried to buy Utd.

**Jayo Cluxton** Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:40 pm

Rooney may well service the debt for a year or so. After that there is nothing approaching a €20 million player. The calibre of player at United is as low as I can remember it - and the Premiership is an unforgiving place - as Liverpool are finding out. It would not take three years for United to drop out of the top 4. The way they are playing this season - and the stupid points they are dropping - could see them out of it next May. City, Chelsea, Arsenal seem better outfits - after that you have Spurs, Villa and a few other hungry clubs ....

**patrique** Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:49 pm

[quote="Jonsmith"]Omar if the glazers are holding out for the Tv rights situation thing to change, is that something that is even in the process of changing? It seems strange that they would run down the value of their investment by servicing this debt for so long unless they were reasonably sure that it was going to change before United fall out of the top 4 which could happen in the next 3 years, assuming SAF doesn't leave..[/quote

Doesn't matter if they are 15th.

If Sir Alex says "that's us in the Sky blue jerseys" most fans will believe him.And buy into Man United Internet for live games.

Let's face it, the big market is the far east and they are only really interested in gambling on the result.

**bocerty** Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:55 pm

[quote="patrique"]

Jonsmith wrote:Omar if the glazers are holding out for the Tv rights situation thing to change, is that something that is even in the process of changing? It seems strange that they would run down the value of their investment by servicing this debt for so long unless they were reasonably sure that it was going to change before United fall out of the top 4 which could happen in the next 3 years, assuming SAF doesn't leave..[/quote

Doesn't matter if they are 15th.

If Sir Alex says "that's us in the Sky blue jerseys" most fans will believe him.And buy into Man United Internet for live games.

Let's face it, the big market is the far east and they are only really interested in gambling on the result.

this one could be the straw that breaks the camels back P - when Ronaldo left they still had hope with Rooney - when Rooney goes they have feck all - the fans could turn on SAF as a result.

Guest Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:33 pm

I dont know lads, i would say if things were as grim at Utd as what you'se are making out AF would have told the glaziers to get someone else to see over the demise of UTD. I really cant see AF allowing his legacy to be ****** up because of new owners messing things up. I would say if UTD were in a real mess AF would have retired

**Jayo Cluxton** Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:50 pm

Ah but you forget Samin ......... SAF is probably the greediest of them all ....

Guest Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:59 pm

Jayo Cluxton wrote:Ah but you forget Samin ......... SAF is probably the greediest of them all ....

Jayo, the reason AF went back on his descision to retire 4 or 5 years ago was because he was motivated to win trophies and break records both as an individual and for the club to do the same. In that sense he was greedy for success. If you think he is there for the money at this stage i would be pretty confident you're wrong

**Boxtyeater** Mon Oct 18, 2010 11:01 pm

Odd that nobody has commented on the passing of this one time Man City legend who died last week. The word flamboyant was coined for him....

**Jayo Cluxton** Mon Oct 18, 2010 11:04 pm

Disagree Samin. If he had his eyes open he'd be well gone. No money, best players sold, club in debt - and he backs the Glazers constantly. Would that not make you wonder?

ps Aye Boxty - he was a character alright. I would've thought P would have started a thread for Big Mal .....

Guest Mon Oct 18, 2010 11:17 pm

Jayo Cluxton wrote:Disagree Samin. If he had his eyes open he'd be well gone. No money, best players sold, club in debt - and he backs the Glazers constantly. Would that not make you wonder?

ps Aye Boxty - he was a character alright. I would've thought P would have started a thread for Big Mal .....

I'd say he announced his retirement a few years ago then changed his mind after getting a bank account statement, i would say that being the manager he knows the ins and outs of the financial situation at Utd and he knows better than anyone that the opportunity is there to continue at the top with utd.

Im sure if it was just money he was interested in he could have announced his retirement. Sat on his ass for a few months then walked into a top job like Man City, Chelsea or even England where he would be paid a fortune, have loads of money to spend and have a great chance of success

**hipster 2** Mon Oct 18, 2010 11:19 pm

what fergie would give to have tevez back he really messed up there

**Jayo Cluxton** Mon Oct 18, 2010 11:25 pm

Samin - to be honest I have never been sold on the man's genius at all. Crossmaglen have won all but one of the last 12/13 county titles. Are the manager/s a genius or has he just had the best players. United had the cream of the crop for a good decade with little or no opposition. Where it does matter - Europe - they had minimal success - despite their domestic dominance.

**Jayo Cluxton** Mon Oct 18, 2010 11:30 pm

hipster 2 wrote:what fergie would give to have tevez back he really messed up there

Hip - the big difference is that Beckham, Stam, Keane etc fell foul of the manager. Tevez departure was largely down to finance - which tells its own tale.

**Grenvile** Mon Oct 18, 2010 11:43 pm

Jayo Cluxton wrote:Samin - to be honest I have never been sold on the man's genius at all. Crossmaglen have won all but one of the last 12/13 county titles. Are the manager/s a genius or has he just had the best players. United had the cream of the crop for a good decade with little or no opposition. Where it does matter - Europe - they had minimal success - despite their domestic dominance.

You're contradicting yourself here something serious Jayo. First you say United have a poor squad. Everyone that was in the CL winning squad and got to the 2009 final are still there out from Ronaldo. But then you say Fergie was successful because he had the best players? So which is it?

Regarding the Tevez argument: He was offered a contract at what he had asked. He felt this did not come in time and didn't feel wanted and left ie: City had came in to over pay for him and he went for the big money pay off.

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