Re: Kildare Denied By Ref

**JimWexford** Mon Aug 30, 2010 10:34 pm

Agree with giving umpire more powers and allowing them to call square balls etc common sense approach (something I feel that croker more often than not lacks).
Two refs, not too sure consistency is an issue here, dealing with people not machines and there judgement to boot.
This could lead to more rows, I allow 2/3 extra steps for al lad to break a tackle, you blow him up and so on, players could really get ticked off.
I must look into what they do in Aussie rules they have 5 refs on the field of play and two umpires maybe BE could enlighten us here on this one

**Jayo Cluxton** Tue Aug 31, 2010 1:29 am

JimWexford wrote:NSG all intercounty refs umpires have to do a course in croke park
Under new "guidelines" umpire are not allowed indicate a square ball
If a umpire calls a ref it is for yellow/red card offences (the same for linesmen)

Jesus H Jim - you brng things to light here that I would never have known -fair play. From what I read umpires are impotent. We had a shocking situation in the Leinster Final where the ref went in to TELL the umpires what to do and yesterday it seemed to me that Pat Mc knew the goal was illegal and went in for a chat and yet gave the goal. Off all GAA seasons this has to be the worst for officials - and we thought Thierry was bad! I know the pressure officials are under and players have become very cute etc - but all the bad calls this year have been down to terrible officials - end of.

**redhandman** Tue Aug 31, 2010 2:00 pm

Dr.Shephard wrote:
mid-mon man wrote:Shouldn't that title say umpires instead of ref mullins?

What the fook could Pat have done about the square ball goal or Kildare's point that wasn't given(These seem to be the main talking points)? Both these decisions should have been called by the umpires, that's what they're there for. From where McEneaney was on the pitch how could he have called those accurately without the help of the umpires. In fact they weren't even Pat's usual umpires that he usually brings, but intercounty refs who were appointed! He consulted with them on Coulter's goal, and they were adamant that it was a goal, so why wouldn't Pat take their word given they were right beside the incident?

No need to be calling McEneaney's integrity into question, it wasn't his best day at the office by any means but this talk of him cheating Kildare out of the game is complete bull.

The umpires have absolutely no authority to call a square ball. Referees are informed at meetings that it is their decision and theirs alone to make. they are discouraged from even consulting the umpires.

why do umpires then have the signal to declare a square ball or not? should the ref tell them what to do? heavens above the last man to tell an umpire what to do caused a riot and gave meath a leinster title!!!!

**black&white** Tue Aug 31, 2010 2:06 pm

redhandman wrote:
why do umpires then have the signal to declare a square ball or not? should the ref tell them what to do? heavens above the last man to tell an umpire what to do caused a riot and gave meath a leinster title!!!!

Umpires don't have to signal a square ball or not. If it's a square ball they are just supposed to do nothing, and the ref signals a free out.

The signal with the 2 flags crossed is only given if they have signalled for a goal/point, and the referee overrules them and disallows the score.

**Dr.Shephard** Tue Aug 31, 2010 2:17 pm

I regularly umpire at club championship games and some Underage inter-county games.
The referee tells us that we are to alert him to off the ball incidents where a card is warranted. We are to explain what happens and recommend a yellow or red card, but it is his call as to which he gives.
If a defender is pulling a forwards jersey off the ball, we are told to warn the defende when he is within earshot and tell him that the next time he does it that the referee will be called in and he will receive a yellow card.
Most defenders do stop after this warning. If they don't then I call the referee and a card is issued.
We are told/warned that we are not to call a referee to tell him about a square ball or any other incident which will result in a free, penalty etc.
Basically all an umpire is allowed do is signal a score, wide or 45 or call areferee in for an incident which warrants a card.
15% of a referees score from an assesor is marked on the performance of the umpires he brings so he issues his instuctions to us before the game in line with guidelines set out at referees meetings. these guidelines come from Croke Park.

I recall a goalmouth scramble in a game last year where players claimed that a ball had crossed the line. It hadn't, however a corner back had prevented the goal by lifting the ball off the ground. The referee couldn't see it with all the bodies in the way so with protestaions from the attacking side he consulted with me and I advised him to award a penalty. It was the correct decision and a sensible thing for the referee to do.
However a few days later he informed me that the asessor had docked him marks for "allowing the umpire to call a penalty."

He now operates strictly by the guidelines set down even though he doesn't agree with them and they lack common sense.

**JimWexford** Tue Aug 31, 2010 5:22 pm

Dr.Shephard wrote:I regularly umpire at club championship games and some Underage inter-county games.
The referee tells us that we are to alert him to off the ball incidents where a card is warranted. We are to explain what happens and recommend a yellow or red card, but it is his call as to which he gives.
If a defender is pulling a forwards jersey off the ball, we are told to warn the defende when he is within earshot and tell him that the next time he does it that the referee will be called in and he will receive a yellow card.
Most defenders do stop after this warning. If they don't then I call the referee and a card is issued.
We are told/warned that we are not to call a referee to tell him about a square ball or any other incident which will result in a free, penalty etc.
Basically all an umpire is allowed do is signal a score, wide or 45 or call areferee in for an incident which warrants a card.
15% of a referees score from an assesor is marked on the performance of the umpires he brings so he issues his instuctions to us before the game in line with guidelines set out at referees meetings. these guidelines come from Croke Park.

I recall a goalmouth scramble in a game last year where in a goalmouth scramble players claimed that a ball had crossed the line. It hadn't, however a corner back had prevented the goal by lifting the ball off the ground. The referee couldn't see it with all the bodies in the way so with protestaions from the attacking side he consulted with me and I advised him to award a penalty. It was the correct decision and a sensible thing for the referee to do.
However a few days later he informed me that the asessor had docked him marks for "allowing the umpire to call a penalty."

He now operates strictly by the guidelines set down even though he doesn't agree with them and they lack common sense.

That is umpiring to a tee fair play Dr. Shep.
Sensible approach, would of knocked the boyo for mentioning to the assessor he took your advice.
This happened a ref was dock 6 points (out of 100) for 1 umpire wearing a baseball hat and the other 3 not wearing any headgear.
Officialdom gone crazy all it is doing is getting refs to notice stuff that doesn't influence games
i.e
Umpires are "advised" to wear a shirt/collar and tie, if 1 has headgear all to wear headgear, black shoes (I kid you not)
They are to signal a score at the edge of the small square but are not allowed come onto the pitch (assessor will deduct marks for this).
The goal flag man is NOT allowed signal a point or raise his hand anymore ONLY the white flag man can.
It is gone a joke in some regards, but as the previous poster has shown nothing beats good ole common sense, a quick word/shout can resolve so much

**Dr.Shephard** Tue Aug 31, 2010 9:44 pm

Never knew that about the black shoes or headgear, or collar and tie for that matter. A bit ridiculous.
As regards the man on the goal flag, he was never supposed to raise his arm to signal a point, he was supposed to point at the white flag to signal to the other umpire to raise it.
Last season we were told that we could no longer do this and we were to nod at the other umpire (Guidelines given to referees at meetings)
However earlier this year we were informed that it is ok to point again.

Sponsored content