Steps required to save hurling:

These are the implementations i believe will save hurling at intercounty level and bring up the standard inside other counties:

1. The setting up of schools of excellence in each county from under12 to under 16.

- abolish the all ireland championships for these age levels
- Blitzes at u12,14 to be non competitive ie go games style, counties allowed to enter two teams into new format with all ireland blitzes being held 4 times a year and county teams being limited to train once a month. Blitzes not to be divided by quality but by open draws ie split into two or three groups then venues confirmed around the country with the host family programme in operation. Counties that enter two teams cannot have the same two teams in one group.
- u16 competitive blitzes run of 6 times a year with counties again permitted to enter two teams but players to play full rules with an a and b knock out sections being determined after the first round of round robin games. Teams will be confined to training once a month. Again open draw with venues around the country with host family programme.
- outside of these games counties will not be allowed/permitted to have other competitive games however friendlies with the permission of central council should be allowed.
- Counties to have paid qualified coaches looking after these teams in certain counties ie teams outside of the liam mccarthy so derry, kerry, sligo, fermanagh

2. Play the minor competitions on a round robing basis with teams entered into groups of four with two tiers, groups winners into semi finals. Scrap provincial system for minors. This will create enough games ie max of 5 and minimum of three.
- Play the final alongside the new intermdiate and junior all ireland competitions
- Teams confined to training twice a month, with one friendly game per month

3. Under 21 to be played under the same format as minor, again scrapping the provincial system.

4. The current senior system to revert to 4 groups of three with four tiers, with the winners and second place teams making the quater finals.
- The first tier will be the Liam McCarthy as we know it.
- The second tier will include the intermediate all ireland teams ie the big counties second string these teams cannot be promoted to the liam mccarth however should a team such as westmeath win the second tier they can be promoted with the worst team in the liam mccarthy dropping down, if that county has a team in the second tier already they will be asked to drop into the third tier and unable to be promoted again until their first team has been promoted to the 1st tier and in they must win the third tier in order to be promoted as normal.
- The third and fourth tiers will follow suit as normal with the potential for a second string team to be entered so long as you do not have a team already in that league ie if you are in the bottom tier you cannot enter a 2nd team until you are promoted at which stage you could enter a team into the bottom tier.
- The season will commence with preliminary rounds which will be the best team in the lower tier v the worst team in the upper tier to see who plays in which competition.
- This should be ratified and that it cannot be changed unless it runs its course.
- These competitions need individual sponsors with tv rights being sold for all competitions from 1 till four. Even if they give the lower tiers tv rights away for free to get it up and running just to promote the county.

6. The league should be run off in Jan, Feb, Mar then the provincials during April may with the winners and finalists being seeded for the top tier with all teams allowed to enter their province should they wish.

7. The creation of 10 clubs at under age level in each county, so it its longford or fermanagh they will be looking to create another ten clubs again with coaches being paid and employed by the gaa to go into these counties and do this.

8. A lot more promotion of the game and a harsh disciplinary reaction to those trying to stop progress ie those who deem hurling to be a second class game, this will force county boards to address and support the issue.



Hit me with your critcism?

Agree with the most of that, the possibility of stand-alone provincial championships should be looked at as a group format All-Ireland is the only realistic solution (at the end of the day moving counties into different provinces isn't going to help in the long run).

I also don't understand why Antrim got moved to Leinster but were still given an automatic place in the Ulster final, hardly seems like a championship at all if the teams are merely playing for the privelage of facing Antrim in the final. That being said I don't really think it was a bad year for Ulster hurling.

The problem lies with the weaker counties - at the moment hurling isn't really a 32-county game and the GAA need to find a way to solve this as you mentioned above. I read about a scheme in which the top tier teams going to train with weaker teams, this sounded like a good idea, but something bigger is needed.

Man what planet do you live on. I will stress this from the outset I would proberly burn sticks just as fast as I use them. I have no regard for my county board which is totally prohurling and would love to kill football in Wexford but they cant because of a good few gobsheens like me.
I will ask a few questions first.
1 Are you involved with underage hurling at a county level
2 Are you involved in your club at an executive level
3 Are you involved with your county board

If the answer to any of the above is yes then I know why Antrin is in the state its in.
(By the way I would of answered yes to all 3 6 months ago now only to 1)
I am only going to tacle points up to u21n this mail.
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These are the implementations i believe will save hurling at intercounty level and bring up the standard inside other counties:

1. The setting up of schools of excellence in each county from under12 to under 16.
Not a bad idea we have 4 in wexford but run them from u14-u16. u12 is too young let them enjoy the game and get to love it - if they don't love it they won't flouish
- abolish the all ireland championships for these age level
There are no all-ireland champs for these levels I only reffed the last blitz of the year held in Wex Antrim won the shield final they beat Carlow who beat Wesmeath in there semi (how do I know I did the games) Kil A beat Kil B in the cup semi final ( I did that one)
- Blitzes at u12,14 to be non competitive ie go games style, counties allowed to enter two teams into new format with all ireland blitzes being held 4 times a year and county teams being limited to train once a month.
Thought you wanted to abolish all ireland championships
Blitzes not to be divided by quality but by open draws ie split into two or three groups then venues confirmed around the country with the host family programme in operation. Counties that enter two teams cannot have the same two teams in one group.
- u16 competitive blitzes run of 6 times a year with counties again permitted to enter two teams but players to play full rules with an a and b knock out sections being determined after the first round of round robin games. Teams will be confined to training once a month. Again open draw with venues around the country with host family programme.
- outside of these games counties will not be allowed/permitted to have other competitive games however friendlies with the permission of central council should be allowed.
- Counties to have paid qualified coaches looking after these teams in certain counties ie teams outside of the liam mccarthy so derry, kerry, sligo, fermanagh
All counties have paid coaches (NGO's) but why should county teams be limited to these people' Anyway according to a directive from croker no county coach are allowed to take over county teams any more aka Pat O Shea case

2. Play the minor competitions on a round robing basis with teams entered into groups of four with two tiers, groups winners into semi finals. Scrap provincial system for minors.
This has been done for years in both Munster and Leinster
Scarpped due to back door qualifiers and the time span they take up.
county minor nearly always on senior adult team hence another hold up of the club champ. This is turn holds up the minor champ in a county players get no games no development and even lose them to foreign games.
This will create enough games ie max of 5 and minimum of three.

- Play the final alongside the new intermdiate and junior all ireland competitions
These are the competitions to scrap
- Teams confined to training twice a month, with one friendly game per month
Pull the other one what county will live by that

3. Under 21 to be played under the same format as minor, again scrapping the provincial system.
Hard pressed to fit U21 into the calender year without expanding it and agained shrinking the club year.

Please note I am not anti your ideas I welcome new thought but you have failed to take into account dual players like most of the hurling world and you think that most of us think hurling is better. Half of Wexford would agree with you but heres the kicker at last half of us wouldn't. That doesn't make us anti hurling it makes us realists THERE ARE TWO GAMES UNTIL YOU COME TO TERMS WITH THIS NO PLAN WILL EVER SUCCEED

Great work NSG, I agree with alot of what you have said.

Jim

Can i highlight what a fool you are, i dont consider football in my plans as the majority of big football counties dont consider hurling, ie dublin for a hell of a long time there not theyve changed and look at their hurlers go.

Im looking out for hurling here you come out with terms such as what county will live with this however was the same not said about the no training in nov dec, id say most counties stuck to this.

No competitions at u16 all ireland? Maybe im behind time on this however ive seen antrim with the b comp a few times, plus blitzes are not actually reigniting the championship they are bringing together the best of the crop in each county and matching them.

Your right i dont consider football and have very little interest in it as it needs little changing.

For your info Antrim have had one of there best minor sides probably in history coming through in recent years, and in football we reached the ulster final and wer beaten by the eventual all ireland champs in the qualifiers - terrible state were in isnt it - we also had a minor team in the ulster final 2 year ago.

Now that weve highlighted our recent growth lets look at wexford, hyymm where to start, they made it to the leinster final last year only to be ripped to shreads by the dubs and in hurling they are afraid of losing their second best tag which theyve held for an eternity to Galway who are now in leinster.

Some times you need to take a look at yourself before you can look at others failures. Now i talk about removing the burn out in hurling by reducing games which is what this format would do yet it would go against a dual player?

You come up with a dual plan, im sure the dubs would love this format in the football the group stage idea would make them start playing teams from outside leinster early on in the championship, the comps could be run off alternating weekends with footy and hurling taking place every other weekend, leaving weeknites and saturday evenings for the club scene plus not every county will play outside the groups stages.

Ive only ever had the time as an administrator, coach and player (dual) to participate at county level, im also a qualified ref, i hope to continue with my commitments at club level however ive serious concerns for hurling which you cannot see being in a hurling dominated county, i make no apology for that. My own county trys to be as impartial as possible with the sports but never seems to keep every one happy maybe your in the not happy sector at the min in your own county?

ps what was the score when our two counties met in the league in casement this year? im pretty sure we won by ten..........................we can play football and hurling next year as were in the same league for both, but your county is in so much of a better state than mine that you can criticise.

Superb thread, much improved effort than your Kerry investigation NSG(which I responded to in depth btw only for my response to land somewhere in France I think). Jimbo sounds a bit harsh there but I think some of what he says is true, but some of your ideas I believe would benefit hurling as well.

A major root cause for the low standard of hurling imo is some counties treating it as some kind of under-acheiving black sheep they could really do without. This is an attitude that prevails in a high percentage of counties north of the Galway-Dublin line. A few are making concerted efforts to improve the game within their counties, Mayo,Tyrone and Armagh would stand out here, but too many are just paying the same old lip service. The opposite is true as well of course as Jim has alluded to with his own county along with the likes of Waterford, and of course Kilkenny. Ultimately until you can change certain attitudes that prevail within too many Co boards, all the long term and positive measures you can ever put in place will only ever amount to diddly squat.

But fair play for trying to address this issue NSG, sad to think even after 125 years of GAA, most Irish kids still know feckall about the greatest game on this Earth.

Ah balls,just seeing your latest post there now NSG. This was a superb thread until it turned into a My county is better than yours spat between Antrim and Wexford.
Jesus wept.
Let me settle that one for ye lads, yer both sh*t.

Now can we get back on topic and address the future direction of hurling, pretty please.

Mossbags that was not part of my initial post and more in response to chip on the shoulder Jim who attacked not only me but my county also, through is his questions and comments so dont go on at me.

When are yous going to start scoring anyway mossbags? Joes sticks maker must be burnt out by now lol only joking

NSG didn't bring into it anything about Wexford V Antrim you did.
Mention how biased my county was and how usless the county board are also mention Antrim winning.
so when you take off what ever classes as glasses then talk to me.
But you have to remember all this pie in the sky shite you just sprouted won't work won't be looked at or even consided until you and the rest of the so called "hurling elite- bunch of assholes if you as me as you think the are so superior with the small ball game etc etc etc" come to terms no grasp the fact that there is more than one game.
The same players play more than one game.
Intercounty is not the be all and end all of it.
Club structures have to be put in place and for a fact more games ain't going to help but hinder that.
Rem its the GAA not the GHA which a lot of ye so called professed small ball or should that be small brain people sprout off about.

I like hurling and I never once mentioned how good Wexford where or how low we have fallen you did that all on your own BUT i don't like hurling enough to kill football which is what you and your type would love seen as this is just about hurling there are actually 5 aspects of the GAA do you even know them all??

"Man what planet do you live on. I will stress this from the outset I would proberly burn sticks just as fast as I use them. I have no regard for my county board which is totally prohurling and would love to kill football in Wexford but they cant because of a good few gobsheens like me.
I will ask a few questions first.
1 Are you involved with underage hurling at a county level
2 Are you involved in your club at an executive level
3 Are you involved with your county board

If the answer to any of the above is yes then I know why Antrin is in the state its in.
(By the way I would of answered yes to all 3 6 months ago now only to 1)
I am only going to tacle points up to u21n this mail."

Jim above is the start of your post Now the personal attacks on me are the same attacks on my county ie its no wonder antrim are in the state they are in?? Is that not putting antrim down, normally to come out with a comment like that you'd come from a county doing much bettter than the one you are running down???????????????

Jim, address the point not the person. You have a tendancy to launch into personal attacks and it does nothing for your argument.

NSG, the points you have made are excellent. I know in Mayo, hurling is doing well at underage levels, and in a few years it will be improved. Football obviously takes first preference, as with most counties, which is a shame. Hurling is a sport that has spanned thousands of years and it needs to be overhauled BY a large degree by the GAA.

Very valid points NSG!

Mayo has been the leading county in turning itself from a hurling
wasteland into a relatively competitive 2nd tier team. The football
dominated county began taking hurling seriously roughly around ten
years ago and Mayo(with a lot of help from its friendly neighbours to
the south it must be said) have subsequently surpassed Roscommon as the
2nd best side in Connacht. That in itself mightn't sound like much but
is a small step in the right direction for the game. Their success in
this was mostly down to broadening the playing base, through a dedicated network of full and part time coaches and volunteers, from a handful of
small hurling pockets into a countywide pursuit thus giving people
who'd never had any connection with the game the opportunity to play it
and develop a passion for the small ball, and Mayo are slowly but
surely reaping the benefits at inter county level.

Putting Pete Finnerty in charge of the seniors has given the game a
higher profile as has Keith Higgins playing with the county team. There
is still of course a lot of opposition and indifference to hurling from
less enlightened people in Mayo but this is only natural in a county
with no tradition in the game.
Speaking of indifference I remember one
time back in the day heading to the Connacht football final which was
being played in Tuam but somehow managing to get myself stranded
between Loughrea and Athenry. It was pissing rain so decked from head
to toe in drenched Maroon and White I thumbed down a lift, and this old
boy pulled up and looked at me and asked me where I was heading.
Thinking he must be half blind not to notice my Galway colours, but
thinking the risk would be worth getting out of the rain I politely
told him I was trying to get to the Connacht Final in Tuam. He gave me
a bemused look and asked me if the lads were playing today and I said
Yeah, its the Connacht Football Final like, and he goes, Football??
Yerrah I was on about the hurlers, never mind that football schite!!
I'll drop ya as far as Athernry.

North Side Gael wrote:Mossbags that was not part of my initial post and more in response to chip on the shoulder Jim who attacked not only me but my county also, through is his questions and comments so dont go on at me.

When are yous going to start scoring anyway mossbags? Joes sticks maker must be burnt out by now lol only joking

Some bucko from Gort tried to take Joes nose off in the county semi final last Sunday, the day of his 21st Birthday no less, but Im sure he'll be fine again for the Leinster Final against Antrim next year NSG

JimWexford wrote:NSG didn't bring into it anything about Wexford V Antrim you did.
Mention how biased my county was and how usless the county board are also mention Antrim winning.
so when you take off what ever classes as glasses then talk to me.
But you have to remember all this pie in the sky shite you just sprouted won't work won't be looked at or even consided until you and the rest of the so called "hurling elite- bunch of assholes if you as me as you think the are so superior with the small ball game etc etc etc" come to terms no grasp the fact that there is more than one game.
The same players play more than one game.
Intercounty is not the be all and end all of it.
Club structures have to be put in place and for a fact more games ain't going to help but hinder that.
Rem its the GAA not the GHA which a lot of ye so called professed small ball or should that be small brain people sprout off about.


I like hurling and I never once mentioned how good Wexford where or how low we have fallen you did that all on your own BUT i don't like hurling enough to kill football which is what you and your type would love seen as this is just about hurling there are actually 5 aspects of the GAA do you even know them all??

Anyone care to have a crack at translating/decyphering/de-coding this latest effort from Jimbo here?

mossbags wrote:

JimWexford wrote:NSG didn't bring into it anything about Wexford V Antrim you did. You were the one who said it was an Antrim v Wexford argument.
Mention how biased my county was and how usless the county board are also mention Antrim winning. Not a lot to go on here, there seems to be several crucial words missing - perhaps the word 'you' has been forgotten: "You mention how biased my county was and how usless the county board are and you also mention Antrim winning."
so when you take off what ever classes as glasses then talk to me. Nice use of rhyme here, perhaps it means 'take a closer look before you comment.'
But you have to remember all this pie in the sky shite angry metaphor for overly optimistic/ridiculous idea you just sprouted another nice plant-related metaphor for 'you just said' won't work won't be looked at or even consided a good effort at the 'power of three' persuasive technique but let down by the lack of commas here, go back and read it slowly and you should be fine. until you and the rest of the so called "hurling elite- bunch of assholes if you as me as you think the are so superior with the small ball game etc etc etc" this is in quotation marks so it is probably a sarcastic remark about people who support/promote hurling, makes no sense whatsoever but is likely to be an insult. come to terms, no grasp, the fact that there is more than one game. "remember that the GAA consists of games other than hurling."
The same players play more than one game. An actual full sentance here - self explanatory.
Intercounty is not the be all and end all of it. "Remember about club hurling."
Club structures have to be put in place and for a fact more games ain't going to help but hinder that. "More games are not going to help improve club hurling."
Rem its the GAA not the GHA Shorthand for 'remember' - remember it's the Gaelic Athletics Assocciation not the Gaelic Hurling Assocciation. which a lot of ye so called professed small ball or should that be small brain people sprout off about. Another sarcastic comment, with a nice pun using the "small ball/small brain" play on words to describe hurling people again. Suggesting that aforementioned hurling people talk about the GAA as if it is the newly invented 'GHA'.

I like hurling and I never once mentioned how good Wexford where or how low we have fallen Needs a full stop here. You did that all on your own BUT i don't like hurling enough to kill football which is what you and your type would love seen as this is just about hurling there are actually 5 aspects of the GAA do you even know them all?? Again crying out for a few full stops. You mentioned how good/bad Wexford are yourself. I don't like hurling enough to kill football, this is what you and 'your type' (probably the small ball/small brain people) would love to see because it is just about hurling for you. There are actually 5 aspects to the GAA - do you even know them all?*

Anyone care to have a crack at translating/decyphering/de-coding this latest effort from Jimbo here?

* off the top of my head:
Hurling
Football
Handball
Rounders
Camogie
?

got 4 Camogie comes under hurling as ladies football comes under football- different governing bodies but in effect the same.
Missing one Sami

JimWexford wrote:got 4 Camogie comes under hurling as ladies football comes under football- different governing bodies but in effect the same.
Missing one Sami

ah right thought that might be the case to be honest, can't think of anymore then, unless it's athletics but they stopped doing that years back I'm sure. Not road bowls?

SamiPremier08 wrote:

mossbags wrote:

JimWexford wrote:NSG didn't bring into it anything about Wexford V Antrim you did. You were the one who said it was an Antrim v Wexford argument.
Mention how biased my county was and how usless the county board are also mention Antrim winning. Not a lot to go on here, there seems to be several crucial words missing - perhaps the word 'you' has been forgotten: "You mention how biased my county was and how usless the county board are and you also mention Antrim winning."
so when you take off what ever classes as glasses then talk to me. Nice use of rhyme here, perhaps it means 'take a closer look before you comment.'
But you have to remember all this pie in the sky shite angry metaphor for overly optimistic/ridiculous idea you just sprouted another nice plant-related metaphor for 'you just said' won't work won't be looked at or even consided a good effort at the 'power of three' persuasive technique but let down by the lack of commas here, go back and read it slowly and you should be fine. until you and the rest of the so called "hurling elite- bunch of assholes if you as me as you think the are so superior with the small ball game etc etc etc" this is in quotation marks so it is probably a sarcastic remark about people who support/promote hurling, makes no sense whatsoever but is likely to be an insult. come to terms, no grasp, the fact that there is more than one game. "remember that the GAA consists of games other than hurling."
The same players play more than one game. An actual full sentance here - self explanatory.
Intercounty is not the be all and end all of it. "Remember about club hurling."
Club structures have to be put in place and for a fact more games ain't going to help but hinder that. "More games are not going to help improve club hurling."
Rem its the GAA not the GHA Shorthand for 'remember' - remember it's the Gaelic Athletics Assocciation not the Gaelic Hurling Assocciation. which a lot of ye so called professed small ball or should that be small brain people sprout off about. Another sarcastic comment, with a nice pun using the "small ball/small brain" play on words to describe hurling people again. Suggesting that aforementioned hurling people talk about the GAA as if it is the newly invented 'GHA'.

I like hurling and I never once mentioned how good Wexford where or how low we have fallen Needs a full stop here. You did that all on your own BUT i don't like hurling enough to kill football which is what you and your type would love seen as this is just about hurling there are actually 5 aspects of the GAA do you even know them all?? Again crying out for a few full stops. You mentioned how good/bad Wexford are yourself. I don't like hurling enough to kill football, this is what you and 'your type' (probably the small ball/small brain people) would love to see because it is just about hurling for you. There are actually 5 aspects to the GAA - do you even know them all?*

Anyone care to have a crack at translating/decyphering/de-coding this latest effort from Jimbo here?

* off the top of my head:
Hurling
Football
Handball
Rounders
Camogie
?

Ah thats some sterling translating there Sami. Outstanding job, Didn't know you spoke Wexican yourself. Looks like a difficult enough language to learn. Still not sure about one thing though, was Jimbo's rant directed at my good self or the noble Antrim poster NSG or perhaps just at the world in general?

mossbags wrote:

SamiPremier08 wrote:

mossbags wrote:

JimWexford wrote:NSG didn't bring into it anything about Wexford V Antrim you did. You were the one who said it was an Antrim v Wexford argument.
Mention how biased my county was and how usless the county board are also mention Antrim winning. Not a lot to go on here, there seems to be several crucial words missing - perhaps the word 'you' has been forgotten: "You mention how biased my county was and how usless the county board are and you also mention Antrim winning."
so when you take off what ever classes as glasses then talk to me. Nice use of rhyme here, perhaps it means 'take a closer look before you comment.'
But you have to remember all this pie in the sky shite angry metaphor for overly optimistic/ridiculous idea you just sprouted another nice plant-related metaphor for 'you just said' won't work won't be looked at or even consided a good effort at the 'power of three' persuasive technique but let down by the lack of commas here, go back and read it slowly and you should be fine. until you and the rest of the so called "hurling elite- bunch of assholes if you as me as you think the are so superior with the small ball game etc etc etc" this is in quotation marks so it is probably a sarcastic remark about people who support/promote hurling, makes no sense whatsoever but is likely to be an insult. come to terms, no grasp, the fact that there is more than one game. "remember that the GAA consists of games other than hurling."
The same players play more than one game. An actual full sentance here - self explanatory.
Intercounty is not the be all and end all of it. "Remember about club hurling."
Club structures have to be put in place and for a fact more games ain't going to help but hinder that. "More games are not going to help improve club hurling."
Rem its the GAA not the GHA Shorthand for 'remember' - remember it's the Gaelic Athletics Assocciation not the Gaelic Hurling Assocciation. which a lot of ye so called professed small ball or should that be small brain people sprout off about. Another sarcastic comment, with a nice pun using the "small ball/small brain" play on words to describe hurling people again. Suggesting that aforementioned hurling people talk about the GAA as if it is the newly invented 'GHA'.

I like hurling and I never once mentioned how good Wexford where or how low we have fallen Needs a full stop here. You did that all on your own BUT i don't like hurling enough to kill football which is what you and your type would love seen as this is just about hurling there are actually 5 aspects of the GAA do you even know them all?? Again crying out for a few full stops. You mentioned how good/bad Wexford are yourself. I don't like hurling enough to kill football, this is what you and 'your type' (probably the small ball/small brain people) would love to see because it is just about hurling for you. There are actually 5 aspects to the GAA - do you even know them all?*

Anyone care to have a crack at translating/decyphering/de-coding this latest effort from Jimbo here?

* off the top of my head:
Hurling
Football
Handball
Rounders
Camogie
?

Ah thats some sterling translating there Sami. Outstanding job, Didn't know you spoke Wexican yourself. Looks like a difficult enough language to learn. Still not sure about one thing though, was Jimbo's rant directed at my good self or the noble Antrim poster NSG or perhaps just at the world in general?

you at first mossbags, then probably both yourself and NSG. as well as anyone who would listen.

I have attained some exclusive footage of Jimbo writing on GT

stop bullying Jim mossy

me i'm used to it have athick skin. Problem with keyboard things is you speak faster than u type and end up missing stuff.
But a lesson learned for directed posts to the english teacherr in the west, way they are out there possibily the only way they'll get any "honours"!!

the 5th one sami is Scór

set up your computer Jimbo with a microphone so you can just speak and what you say will be typed automatically. problem solved! maybe.

SamiPremier08 wrote:

JimWexford wrote:got 4 Camogie comes under hurling as ladies football comes under football- different governing bodies but in effect the same.
Missing one Sami

ah right thought that might be the case to be honest, can't think of anymore then, unless it's athletics but they stopped doing that years back I'm sure. Not road bowls?

sorry jim womens football does not come under football it is a total different organization that operates outside the gaa, comagie however does come under the gaa heading