OK the time has come to post your Derby selection?

Gan Amhras for me.

Murtagh has lost the plot completely, wants his head examined.

But Sir James and King Kevin won me loads a year ago and they'll do it again.

Its so exciting! Who does everyone else think? Age of Aquarius? Black Bear Island? Crowded House? Debussy? Fame And Glory? Gan Amhras? Golden Sword? Kite Wood? Masterofthehorse? Montaff? Rip Van Winkle? Sea The Stars? South Easter?

The greatest race in the world. Love It!

I'd say Rip Van winkle or see the stars. Probably see the stars.

clash-of-da-ash wrote:I'd say Rip Van winkle or see the stars. Probably see the stars.

Wouldn't like to be on either coming to the two furlong pole. If RVW wins, everything I've learned will have been for nothing. I just can't see it. But he divides racing.

Looking forward to this myself Loyal and to shock you i'm seriously looking at Rip myself.

That said when it comes the time to put the cash on the counter i'll likely be backing Gan as he's not a bad price at the moment.

Havign read an interview with Jim Bolger at the weekend I am leaning towards Gan Amhras meself. Bolger's Derby record could be like a Dublin bus - none for ages and then two come along at once ....

Well I suppose Cork v Kerry or maybe Meath v Duiblin i still can't decide

A lot of non-racing people won't understand the thing with RVW. He has doing nothing to suggest he can win the Derby, at least not in public. He's obviously been doing things down in Tipperary! But like he didn't even win his maiden, the winner got thrown out and he got the money. On his second start he beat Cuis Ghaire a length (who had her fillies allowance cancelled by a Group penalty), then well beaten in a weak Dewhurst and stayed on into fourth in the Guineas. Yet he could go off favourite for the Derby! And the way he's breed, you can't be confident at all he'll stay. Its such a unique situation, like I say he divides racing.

But what makes the Derby so special is Epsom, a track one of its kind. The long up hill climb, then followed by the sudden descent to Tattenham Corner and the camber in the straight. Gan Amhras has a long stride so I'd wonder if he'll be suited to the track, that would be main worry.

Loyal2TheRoyal wrote:A lot of non-racing people won't understand the thing with RVW. He has doing nothing to suggest he can win the Derby, at least not in public. He's obviously been doing things down in Tipperary! But like he didn't even win his maiden, the winner got thrown out and he got the money. On his second start he beat Cuis Ghaire a length (who had her fillies allowance cancelled by a Group penalty), then well beaten in a weak Dewhurst and stayed on into fourth in the Guineas. Yet he could go off favourite for the Derby! And the way he's breed, you can't be confident at all he'll stay. Its such a unique situation, like I say he divides racing.

But what makes the Derby so special is Epsom, a track one of its kind. The long up hill climb, then followed by the sudden descent to Tattenham Corner and the camber in the straight. Gan Amhras has a long stride so I'd wonder if he'll be suited to the track, that would be main worry.

loyal you can sing that

Which part don't you understand?

Loyal2TheRoyal wrote:Which part don't you understand?

The racing, loyal taking the michael not into it at all each to there own me couldn't tell the head from the tail.

Stick with John Oxx and Mick Kinane people. Was on the Bolger horse for the 2000 gns
but was soundly beaten and see no reason why the winner of that race Sea the Stars shouldn't go on and stay the extra half mile on Saturday. Oxx knows exactly the type of animal it takes to win a derby round Epsom and at around 3/1 I'd be having more than a sneaky few squids on this one.

mossbags wrote:Stick with John Oxx and Mick Kinane people. Was on the Bolger horse for the 2000 gns
but was soundly beaten and see no reason why the winner of that race Sea the Stars shouldn't go on and stay the extra half mile on Saturday. Oxx knows exactly the type of animal it takes to win a derby round Epsom and at around 3/1 I'd be having more than a sneaky few squids on this one.

Ah well, I wouldn't go that far. Sea The Stars' sire is Cape Cross, enough said really. For a horse to travel as well as he did and then to turn on an instant acceleration in a vintage Guineas and win comfortably at the line and then to go an win a Derby would make him the best horse since Nijinksy. He may win, it would be great for racing if he does. But there is too much doubt.

Johnny Murtagh has chosen Rip van Winle and when was the last time he got it wrong.

Murtaghs record in the Derby is exceptional alright Clash and maybe he's seeing something on the gallops that the rest of us blatently cannot at the track. Or maybe and perhaps more likely hes picking from the best of a not great bunch. Either way RVW never wins this Derby, mark my word.

Re SoS loyal do you think John Oxx would even consider for the slightest second running the horse if he doubted its ability to stay?? He knows from experience just what it takes here and his judgement is good enough for me.

clash-of-da-ash wrote:Johnny Murtagh has chosen Rip van Winle and when was the last time he got it wrong.

Well he rode King of Rome last year and he finished third best of O'Brien's five. He got it wrong twice in the Derby trials already this season and thats just to name a few. Johnny sometimes becomes a bit to attached to horses for his own good. Last year's BC Classic, rode the Duke instead of the Kingmambo colt Henrythenavigator - it was obvious Henry would take to the polytrack like a duck to water! But like you say, this is the Derby so surely he's going ride the best one.

mossbags wrote:Murtaghs record in the Derby is exceptional alright Clash and maybe he's seeing something on the gallops that the rest of us blatently cannot at the track. Or maybe and perhaps more likely hes picking from the best of a not great bunch. Either way RVW never wins this Derby, mark my word.

Re SoS loyal do you think John Oxx would even consider for the slightest second running the horse if he doubted its ability to stay?? He knows from experience just what it takes here and his judgement is good enough for me.

He said only a few days ago and I quote "he's 50/50 to get the trip". Although I reckon if he stays he'll win. Therefore since Oxx rates him an even money shot to stay and he's 3/1 to win, serious value to be had. His pedigree dosen't really concern me, half brother to Galileo and Black Sam Bellamy (although I'd prefer if Cape Cross was a little more stamina influencing), its just the way he won the Guineas - such speed. If he wins on Saturday, he'll be re-writing history. But thats only my opinion, I could be wrong.

Fame or Glory to win.

Age of Aquarius to back.

Thomas Clarke wrote:

To say that Murtagh has lost his mind is to assume that he actually chose the horse himself. Ballydoyle is run as a business, and they are very much a team. I wouldn't be at all surprised if JM is riding who O'Brien has instructed him to ride. Heffernan is comfortable with Fame & Glory but, by all accounts, RVW is a quirkier horse to ride, and perhaps Aidan wants his best jockey on that one. A RVW win would be much more lucrative at stud than a Fame & Glory win, given the former's genuine pace.

Well I don't know if I'd agree with that last sentence TC! F&G is an unbeaten Group One winner, Rip Van Winkle is a decent enough animal at best. Like F&G has followed the exact same three year old campaign as Galileo and High Chapparal. Also how much pace Rip Van Winkle has is debatable too, he couldn't even place in a Dewhurst or a Guineas.

Right after much deliberation i'm sticking my balls on the chopping block and going for Gan Amhras, at 8s at the moment and well worth at least a tenner for some of you smaller backers.

Have to admit i was looking at RVW but have thought better of it as the odds don't reflect the horse he his.

I will be quite surprised if Gan Amhras is not in the top 3 here, everything about him screams Derby horse. For a horse with his pedigree to finish third in a Guineas really suggests to me that he's something exceptional. I have watched the Guineas at least 50 times this stage. If Sea The Stars stays he wins but 15 Guineas winners have tried to win the Derby since Nijinksy but only Nashwan was successful.

Coronation Cup tomorrow and Christmas has surely come early with Eastern Anthem 12/1! I was honestly expecting something round the 4/1 mark, this horse won the Sheema Classic on his last start! I just don't get it???? I'd advise everyone to throw a fiver each way on him.

Broadly in agreement there with Loyal. The only thing I see beating Sea of Stars is the trip but as ever in the derby, the trip is the cliffhanger for most horses in the race and at 3/1 to get the extra 4 furlongs I think its serious value for unquestionably the best horse in the race. I remember winning more money than I'd ever seen before in my life on Motivator at the same price, in the same race. The other value horse is undoubtably Gan Amhras and I'll probably be having a wee saver on this one.

Look, as T.Clarke said, it is a business. O'Brien prefers Herrernan on Fame or Glory, Murtagh did not have the ppick of the horses.

fame or Glory will win, easily.

Loads of money going on The Rip in the last few days.

clash-of-da-ash wrote:Loads of money going on The Rip in the last few days.

They're bigging him up like mad in the papers & radio over here in England but as Loyal says there's very little to back up all this hype, I'm sticking with Gan Amhras for it so am quietly confident.