Legends of the big ball........

i would define a legend as someone who could do things that your average player could only dream about doing or that they had 10+ years at the very top their countys go to man in the big matches.

so i would say that canavan would be a legend , maurice fitz just for that point v dublin alone. mcconville would be a legend too.

i think though that players only get revered many moons after their playing days are over, is this a case of rose tinted glasses or is it a case of not being a prophet in your own time.

going back to the point about defenders making the list what about mcgeeney moyinhan scullion and fay - all legends of the game again for the length of time theuy were at the very top i would also put mcanallen into the bracket of legendary defenders as although he wasnt about very long he was mickeys go to man when full back was a problem, when he needed to replace canavan as captain & he captained the county at all levels.

Good to see Boxty's excellent thread back on track, after 2 pages of nonsense from Royal Girl and JC.

So, to summarise, I'd go with with the following:

Peter Canavan (all seem in agreement, except the Dubs), Jack O'Shea and Pat Spillane can all be classed as 'legends' - among the very best we have ever seen. I've included Spillane, despite the questions marks over whether or not he was as good as McGarty. Spillane was, in his own right, a phenomenal footballer. 8 all-irelands, and man of the match in at least 3 of those. The best forward in the best attack ever seen.

Beyond that, and worthy of very strong consideration would be Matt Connor and a handful of Kerrymen, Cooper, Fitzgerald and Mikey Sheehy. You could argue the case for all 4 of those but, to avoid diluting the accolade, I'd suggest that we pick no more than 2 of those Kerry forwards - which 2 I'd go for would depend on what day you asked me. Maurice was the most gifted and most spectacularly exceptional, but he lacks the medals and consistency of the other two. Very hard to separate the 3 of them.

A bit further back you start to see midfielders and the odd defender joining in. Brian Mullins was Dublin's outstanding player of the last 50 years, and I would not object to him being called a legend. Anthony Tohill was another, but his cause would have been better supported had he won more than just the 1 all-ireland. Paidi O'Se, John O'Keefe, Keiran McGeeney and Darren Fay would all be worth discussion, but not necessarily inclusion. Paidi may come closest, although his 8 Celtic crosses and personality may be influencing me here. Further forward, I'd rate Colm O'Rourke and Larry Tompkins very highly indeed.

Dermott Earley Snr would have been what i'd have called excellent, but not among the best 4-5 of the modern era. Paraic Joyce likewise, and I'd also add Mickey Linden and Trevor Giles to that list. Two definite ommissions for me - Seamus Moynihan and Dara O'Se were very good, but not in the same vein as some of those mentioned above. At least, not to my mind.

Wouldn't disagree with most of that TC. I suppose I always think of legends as skilful graceful players but the likes of McGeeney and Johnno must be considered. No doubt Mullins is a legend among Dubs supporters - as is Brian!

I rate P Joyce very very highly myself - one of my top 5.

most pointless thread ever

to name one kevin o brien

Suppose it depends on what you take legend to mean - If we are saying that it is the best dozen odd players of the past 40 odd years in terms of consistency and ability then can't argue too much with TC



If you want to limit to Boxtys five I'd have Gooch,Canavan, Jack O Shea, Maurice Fitz and Matt Connor
Then Brian Mullins, Trevor Giles, Martin O Connell, Pauric Joyce, Dermot Early, Pat Spillane and Paidi O Se all of whom would meet my definition of the word

But outside of that there are players whose enigma, popularity, reverance amongst fans, commitment
and in some but not all cases football ability could also entitle them to use the term legend

Larry Tompkins, Ciaran MacDonald,Charlie Redmond, Keith Barr, Mick Lyons, Colm O Rourke, Martin O Connell, Eoin Liston, Mikey Sheehy, Dara O Shea, Ciaran Whelan, Anthony Tohill, Tony Scullion, Nudie Hughes, Frank McGuigan, Jimmy Keaveny, Robbie Kelleher, Jimmy BArry Murphy,Ger Power, MArtin Furlong, Greg Blaney, SEamus Moynihan, Robbie O Malley, Kieran McGeeny, Martin McHugh

We have now reached the conclusion of this debate......The final 5 are as follows:::

Pat Spillane, Jack O'Shea, Colm Cooper and Mikey Sheehy (all Kerry) and Peter Canavan (Tyrone)..

Given that Maurice Fitzgerald and Matt Connor didn't make the final 5 is based on the longevity and levels successfully performed at by Cooper and Sheehy.

All suggestions were, in the main, worthy of discussion and while his omission from the list of nominees was surprising, Gerry Flanagan's mighty felling of John Maughan in 1996, in the aftermath of the game in Castlebar, wouldn't just have been enough.....

Great to revisit some of the memories and heroics of the past, thanks to all contributors.

A very good summary Boxty, and those would probably be my 5 as well. Legends all of them, for all time.

When will you be doing the hulring one, boxty my auld segotia....



No doubt Pat will be only mad to ream off countless obscure northern hurlers who lorded it against Derry and Down and the likes