Shankhill Butchers and Collusion

Caught a few of the Pre election discussions not through choice I was flicking from Champions league highlights to Family Guy and Mad Men - Re runs. - but anyway its the first time that I have noticed such an emphasis on
"Normal issues" - Education - Health etc etc

I assume that a lot of people will still vote Green v Orange but the more than people can start arguing about mismanaging the health system well then thats true progress

North Side Gael wrote:A twelve year old inciting violence against men and women with guns and batons, yes, i can see where your coming from with that one. You where the one going on about the church and child abuse etc, seems its ok for some kids with you though!

They will never bin mcguinness out right they will do it within, more and more of the old faces of SF are pushed into retirement/standing down all the time, soon they will all be gone including mcguinness.

Where did I say it was alright, all I said was that there are two sides to every story and we do not know the facts only a one sided view of the incident.....which i would take with a very large pinch of salt

The Puke wrote:

North Side Gael wrote:A twelve year old inciting violence against men and women with guns and batons, yes, i can see where your coming from with that one. You where the one going on about the church and child abuse etc, seems its ok for some kids with you though!

They will never bin mcguinness out right they will do it within, more and more of the old faces of SF are pushed into retirement/standing down all the time, soon they will all be gone including mcguinness.

Where did I say it was alright, all I said was that there are two sides to every story and we do not know the facts only a one sided view of the incident.....which i would take with a very large pinch of salt

Puke,

Ive been there during these incidents both while i was in SF and in recent years, ive seen teenage girls being made stand in the street in there underwear as her daddy may or may not have been involved in something, coincidently these style of stop and searchs where deemed illegal in the european high court so they changed the code name for the search, i would expect someone, to understand especially someone who doesnt question why this incident was never given press coverage or any "police investigation", sit and do what they are doing in the north puke, ignore all these things, they are becoming more and more frequent, as are the killings, Brendan Lillis is severely ill in hospital around the weight of 5 stone an old man, he was a former provisional who went to a protest then had his licence recinded under some story about breach of his licence, do we hear of this in the public domain? no, did we get a proper investigation or did the press cover the fact that john bradys faily rejected the findings of an investigation into his death while in PSNI custody? no.

The list goes on, you sit and read your west brit press and gobble it all up, will only serve to hinder the intelligence of who seems to me to be a fairly intelligent person on other issues.

Just another press story that did exist but dissappeared, when the UVF murdered Bobbey Moffet last year, a search on the house of one of those arrested found a PSNI uniform, no one ever questioned this, the same way they dont question the multiple attacks on nationalists, in some cases which have almost lead to deaths.

TC,

Geographical boundaries, ive answered that before, tell the people in north belfast,, the short strand or anywhere else that has had massive peace walls erected since the signing of the good friday agreement. I agree a lot of relations have bettered for those walking about in suits in these areas but the ordinary people who cant put on lights at the back of their homes due to fear of having there windows smashed in or worse. Dont talk to me about boundaries the home i grew up in and the home i live in now (a different area), if you went out of your house you could walk so many hundred miles right or left, beyond that you were in the wrong territory, i see kids still with this problem today in the very same areas i experienced being beaten, shot at, the works and guess what these kids are experiencing all the same things.

So sit where ever it is you are and continually tell yourself, the bombs arent getting closer together, republican prisoners have not died in psni custody, the numbers at dissident protests have not almost trebled in a couple of years, that loyalists are not engaged with or attacking catholics around belfast, coleraine and further a feild, you keep telling yourself that, everyone loves to hear it, difference being its not true.

NSG, you are coming across as the quintessential bogeyman of days gone by. The man who talks in circles, warning of this that and t'other, yet offers no solutions or even suggestions. Ian Paisley was also one of these, for example.

Belfast has social problems. Young people have nothing to do, so they rob, vandalise and fight with people from other religions. It happens in other places too, but the main reason for people in belfast being unhappy are social problems. Belfast people, particularly in working class areas, are generally extremely insular. The don't know what is happening beyond their own street, never mind beyond the City limits, which makes every little thing that happens on their doorstep seem of enormous consequence. Sorry NSG, regrettable though all the things you've talked about may be, they aren't part of the big picture. People have moved on, and turning the other cheek to the odd case of PSNI brutality and the likes is part of the price for that.

Mullins asked the question 'could the dissidents launch a campaign?' and the answer is unequivocably 'no'. There is no appetite for any campaign, and people would not support it. There will be some bombs and shootings, but nothing remotely on a par with what we saw in the 70s/80s. People have moved on, and those wanting to stay in the past (e.g. some PSNI, loyalist thugs, republican bombers, bigots on either side, yourself) will eventually realise that, and give up the ghost.

NSG, have you ever heard a politician who was not twisting? So if Cameron says something he means the opposite.

It is a process. No good saying, "United Ireland next Monday" as that would cause a major panic in Ardoyne, fall's Road, Dublin, never mind unionist circles.

The PSNI were formed to replace the RUC. the only way they can succeed is if it is a balanced force, who beat up everybody and not just one side, as all forces do. If someone shoots all the catholics in it, in two years that someone will say "The PSNI is like the RUC, all prods" and morons will believe them. The EXACT same thing happened with the UDR which was created as a force for catholics to get arms. Different times, maybe people were not ready, but they are now.

As Omar points out, in the election you now need SOME policies, which is why UUP and SDLP struggle, they never needed any. Sin Fein and DUP may be the new Orange and Green but they also get bread and butter things done.

A united Ireland is inevitable if the PEOPLE of Ireland want one. All ye have to do is wait.

Hers a link to dissidents making a living using the name of Republicans NSG

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TC the people with nothing to do end up dealing drugs and stealing cars, most other young men in these areas accept nothing to do, or join a cause to keep the scum bags from their doors as the other scum bags (the psni/ruc) wont arrest any of them. As for the people will turn the blind eye statement, the more this happens the more support is gained, eventually we go full circle and end up with a campaign with enough support, do you even listen to the others who back up my argument such as mi5 or the branch, they are saying the same as me but on your side, silly people lying with their feet up in the 6 counties tend to ignore problems until its too late, your grand so keep going with that.

Pat, wise up, your sounding like many of the trade unionists now, even trusting the conservatives, the people of the six counties wont protest the same as london or glasgow, why because we have an assembly, its a myth and a trick, your more intelligent than that! Wait for what pat? normalisation, just another "wales", or the fact that they wont even give all ireland bodies any decision making powers!

Ah mullins, didnt click on the link,laughed my nuts off at it though. TC must read this religiously lol

As for my last point today, we govern the police threw our elected assembly, we control and ensure they are compliant with the law - wrong! Even the ombudsman cheif resigned over head over lack of independence due to the meddling of senior civil servants! You can guarantee this, you can multiply the severity of this by about ten, because if he'd given the full truth, he'd be in the lagan!!

TC did you see the petrol bombing in coagh last night, what part of belfast is that?

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Just another example of ignorance, the residents group in ardoyne who actually on paper represent the majority of ardoyne residents are not invited to these talks but the sinn fein controlled group are.

To Pat, what do you propose we do about this parade in the mean time, sit and wait? but it costs millions a year!

To TC, the group not invited hold the control of the majority, do we ignore them too? but it costs millions a year! (ps this isnt a social problem, it is a problem for decades now, a problem which has seen this area become a dissident strong hold, totally refuting your notion of a social problem)

North Side Gael wrote: do you even listen to the others who back up my argument such as mi5 or the branch, they are saying the same as me but on your side, silly people lying with their feet up in the 6 counties tend to ignore problems until its too late, your grand so keep going with that.

OK, Samin, Boc, Mugsy, Pat, myself - posters from the North completely disagree with you, yet you are the one who is all-knowing and correct. Why? Because those bastions of honesty, David Cameron, MI5 and the Special Branch, support your point of view. You really should listen to yourself NSG, but I know that you won't.

I'm going to step away now, and let you argue with yourself, spouting baseless rhetoric as the likes of Paisley always did. If only you could see the similarities, but I think this thread has shown that the ability to be self-critical isn't one of your qualities. In 11 pages you have offered nothing positive, no solutions to this near-apocolyptic problem that you fear we are in the midst of, only moaning about every ill the other side has done, and ignoring any ills that you or your mates may have done.

As Patrique says, the country is increasingly being united, with Catholics and Protestants engaging and mixing in many aspects of daily life across the North. This will continue to grow, unless the likes of you manage to stop it happening by waging some imaginary war with an imaginary enemy. I hope you don't succeed.

What do you offer as a solution to the growing discontent in republican communities with the psni?

I find it hard to believe someone who cant see that the good friday agreement is failing talking of self criticism, maybe there is wrongs in my friends, what i have done is argue with those who claim my friends wrongs to be the only wrongs, im perfectly entitle to do so, rather than sit and listen to the west brit media created opinions from the likes of yourself who are obviously quite happy for twelve year old kids to be beaten by cops so long as the majority arent effected.

Hypocritical, that is my view of your posts, i talk of problems we face you cant draw a solution if you dont identify a problem thats hardly negative, what do you want me to be like you and go out and accept nothing is wrong, i should just bin political friends because they disagree with the good friday agreement? Like i said hypocrisy!

Now finally answer my question about the growing discontent, and dont even bother if its, we have a forum for dialogue BS, because if thats the answer youve no clue what your talking about!

North Side Gael wrote:What do you offer as a solution to the growing discontent in republican communities with the psni?

I find it hard to believe someone who cant see that the good friday agreement is talking of self criticism, maybe there is wrongs of my friends, what i have done is argue with those who claim them to be the only wrongs, im perfectly entitle to do so, rather than sit and listen to the west brit media created opinions from the likes of yourself who are obviously quite happy for twelve year old kids to be beaten by cops so long as the majority arent effected.

Hypocritical, that is my view of your posts, i talk of problems we face you cant draw a solution if you dont identify a problem thats hardly negative, what do you want me to be like you and go out and accept nothing is wrong, i should just bin political friends because they disagree with the good friday agreement? Like i said hypocrisy!

Now finally answer my question about the growing discontent, and dont even bother if its, we have a forum for dialogue
BS, because if thats the answer youve no clue what your talking about!

NSG your views are welcomed on here by at least Mullins..Its impossible to understand all sides if you don't hear from them....As for TC comparing you to the bigot paisley thats out of order

As for your figures TC just came into my head youve said 5 are against me from the north, heres another problem, what if one in 6 people across the north have my point of view on the good friday agreement? Id say youd need to find your solutions sooner rather than relying on daft figures on a forum!

Mullins as for TC's comparison to Paisley, I find it quite hilarious that some one who knows nothing about me or my depth in politics (several working programmes with loyalists on educating youth and so on and just finished a programme with CAJ on looking for alternative measures to punishment beatings) can make such a remark.

This bitter and bigoted hardline Unionist has shovelled off the mortal coil....



Former Home Affairs minister William Craig......

There won't be a cow milked tonight in West Belfast or the Bogside.....

Sorry NSG, I was away at the Somme and Flanders field with glen Barr's crowd, laying wreaths at the Menin gate on behalf of our GAA club.

Below is only for the brave, taken at Willie McBride's grave. as my mate said, "did the man not suffer enough"

Never ever attempt this in the Key of A when G is your natural key, especially if you can't sing in the first place!!!!!

But poignant.

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And the next one who says the GAA is a playground for terrorists...........well, I feel we now hold the moral ground

North Side Gael wrote:As for your figures TC just came into my head youve said 5 are against me from the north, heres another problem, what if one in 6 people across the north have my point of view on the good friday agreement? Id say youd need to find your solutions sooner rather than relying on daft figures on a forum!

Mullins as for TC's comparison to Paisley, I find it quite hilarious that some one who knows nothing about me or my depth in politics (several working programmes with loyalists on educating youth and so on and just finished a programme with CAJ on looking for alternative measures to punishment beatings) can make such a remark.

Shouldnt be allowed to be a problem, if you support democracy then accept that you are in the minority both in the north and if you want to bring in an all-ireland vote on the issue (something Republicans always bring up when voting is an issue) then you would be in an even smaller minority. Things are far from perfect nsg but they are improving. Violence is not the way forward

It appears that forum legend Bocerty got carried away at the count in Omagh and irritated the UUP leader with a triumphalist display of flag-waving.

Poor Tom took the "sore loser" approach, blaming all and sundry. Sadly, UTV opted for Gerry Kelly rather than Bocerty to slap this neanderthal down....