Can Armagh improve for Division 2 Final?

Having watched them demolish Donegal today, can we expect to see a different Armagh team, whether in effort or personel or both, than what we saw in Pairc Esler a fortnight ago, come Finals day?

I was at that game and Armagh were absolutely woeful in the opening ten minutes although credit to Down they were immense. Armagh found there way again in that match and if Finn Mo stayed on then it would have been a lot closer contested.

Its going to be one of the most difficult NFL finals to decide on. Armagh will probarbly edge it if Ronan Clarke is playing.

It'll definitely be the most entertaining, what with both teams having formidable forward lines and poo defences.

Surprised at that result today alright. I reckon you will see a very different attitude from the League fixture. Similarly Cork will be a completely different team v Mayo in their final. Two Ulster teams down and two up - a shift in power perhaps?

BlueArmy2010 wrote:It'll definitely be the most entertaining, what with both teams having formidable forward lines and poo defences.

Armagh's defence is coming good. Kept Tip to 1 point in the first half a few weeks ago and kept Donegal to two points from play.

Armagh had 12 different scorers today and scored 2-13 from play and Ronan Clarke only played a few minutes.

Its going to be interesting alright, but I am more confident that something will be done this summer.

No I wouldn't think so, and I reckon that it will be proved come summertime. Mickey Harte has a knack of getting the Tyrone lads to peak at just the right time most years and without a shadow of a doubt they have the best squad in the province. I still think they'll win the Anglo-Celt. As for Armagh, they're a team on the way down, although today's performance was totally supreme at times. Paddy O'Rourke can't bring them any further than Peter McDonnell, in fact I see them spending the best part of the summer getting full at the Canal Court. And Down? Well im not gonna say anythin to jinx them...The Boys in Red and Black are Back...ooops!

Thought Mickey Harte didn't look well on the TV there today.

Paddy O'Rouke knows that there is talent in Armagh it is just getting them physically fit. Down have peaked, they arent going to be doing anything, Clarke is going to be a target, once he is taken out of the game the foundations of the Down team will be rocked. This was evident when McKeever got his hands on him in the league game. Then as Armagh were getting in to their stride Fin Mo was sent off.

League is looked into too much. Although Armagh are coming along nicely. There are going to be a big three in Ulster this year Armagh, Down and Tyrone. The new Ulster rivalry will be Armagh and Down...but Tyrone will be waiting for both of them in The All Ireland.

Personally, I would want Down to beat Armagh again in the league final and get a little too confident if they were to meet Armagh in the championship.

Jayo Cluxton wrote:Surprised at that result today alright. I reckon you will see a very different attitude from the League fixture. Similarly Cork will be a completely different team v Mayo in their final. Two Ulster teams down and two up - a shift in power perhaps?

If you're basing it on the league, then there must have been a seismic shift in power seeing as we were the highest finishing Ulster county!

Good point actually Jayo

Everyone likes to play a final in Croker but I hear that they are having the Div 2 final in Clones so that the Colmans lads won't be coming back to Croker so soon!

Seriously though - do the Down and Armagh lads want to travel to Dublin for the final - given economic circumstances etc or would Clones or Omagh suffice? Be interested in views on this one.

Jayo Cluxton wrote:Everyone likes to play a final in Croker but I hear that they are having the Div 2 final in Clones so that the Colmans lads won't be coming back to Croker so soon!

Seriously though - do the Down and Armagh lads want to travel to Dublin for the final - given economic circumstances etc or would Clones or Omagh suffice? Be interested in views on this one.

If I can get tickets, im going. Student finance is paying

GAA-Fan wrote:
If I can get tickets, im going. Student finance is paying

Can't see a prob with tickets at all but where would you prefer they play it?

Jayo Cluxton wrote:

GAA-Fan wrote:
If I can get tickets, im going. Student finance is paying

Can't see a prob with tickets at all but where would you prefer they play it?

Croke Park. Some of the lads on the Armagh team haven't played there so it would be a good experience for them.

Every gaelic player dreams of playing at Croke and I'd imagine few supporters would turn down the trip there. But from a personal point of view I think all games in the country should be played at Clones! The atmosphere in that town on match day cant be beaten! And the alcoholism at games there is unbelievable! Best GAA day out in the country!

These days Croke Park is actually handier than Clones.....but I'm guessing we're going to be ripped off wherever we go these days (still reeling from the E20 admission on Saturday).

The very fact that people think this is going to be a tight game just shows how much both teams have changed. Armagh have went downhill and Down have been improving......sooner or later both teams are going to be roughly similar at that rate of going.

Some posters are talking about Ronan Clarke here as if he's the Messiah...the Down defence has vastly improved over the past while and with all this hype I'm sure Down will have some sort of plan to deal with him. There's been whispers that Dan Gordon (yes Armagh, you may have been missing Ronan Clarke last time out, but we were missing Big Dan) may make a substitute appearance.

In the last derby, Armagh focused far too much on the physicality and their play suffered. Moriarty was unfortunate to get sent off but when you play rough football you're risking yellow/red cards.

Simple as this, going by current form Down should win this game. They're playing fast and efficient football so far this season if they can continue posting high scores while maintaining this average concession of around 0-8 (think that's it anyway) they will certainly win. However, if Armagh improve their style of play (especially when Ronan Clarke comes down from the heavens) then it's anybody's game.

Verdict: Down by 2 points

LOL Marty Clarke is being talked about as the new Down messiah...if he goes back to Australia Down are back in the sh***er.

GAA-Fan wrote:LOL Marty Clarke is being talked about as the new Down messiah...if he goes back to Australia Down are back in the sh***er.

'Down-Under' you could say

It's naive to think that Marty Clarke is the only reason Down are going well. There's no doubt that he is a special player but even without him I reckon Down will be a handful for most teams this year.

Did Tipp draw with Down?

If I am completely honest I am unconvinced about both Down and Armagh. Have they both peaked too early, then again they are both young teams.

Hype always surrounds the winners of divisions which has shown that league form means nothing.

This year in Ulster I feel is going to be extremerly interesting.

GAA-Fan wrote:Hype always surrounds the winners of divisions which has shown that league form means nothing.

GF, this is a total myth. Of the last 8 NFLs, Kerry, Tyrone and Armagh have won 6 between them. Certainly, it isn't a guarantee of success in the summer, but it's a great indicator of who is going well and who isn't.

Thomas Clarke wrote:

GAA-Fan wrote:Hype always surrounds the winners of divisions which has shown that league form means nothing.

GF, this is a total myth. Of the last 8 NFLs, Kerry, Tyrone and Armagh have won 6 between them. Certainly, it isn't a guarantee of success in the summer, but it's a great indicator of who is going well and who isn't.

Thats what I am getting at, winning the NFL means nothing. Yet some people base predictions on the last 8 looking at form in League. Like I said im unconvinced about Armagh and Down because they may have peaked too early.

As for Tyrone, they havent steadied themselves in the NFL and a few players came back towards the end. Maybe a few challenge games will sort them out.

Sorry GF, I was actually disagreeing with you.

How can you say that league form doesn't matter when 6 of the last 8 leagues have been won by Tyrone, Armagh or Kerry? In fact, in the last 7 years, 4 league winners have gone on to lift Sam as well.

Now also consider that in 2001 Galway made the league final and won the all-ireland, that in 2005 Armagh won the league and played their best ever football under Kernan in the summer (just missed out on all-ireland final to Tyrone), and that in 2003 Laois made the league final on the way to their only Leinster title, and I think it is fair to say that sides who do well in the league normally do well in the summer.

Thomas Clarke wrote:Sorry GF, I was actually disagreeing with you.

How can you say that league form doesn't matter when 6 of the last 8 leagues have been won by Tyrone, Armagh or Kerry? In fact, in the last 7 years, 4 league winners have gone on to lift Sam as well.

Now also consider that in 2001 Galway made the league final and won the all-ireland, that in 2005 Armagh won the league and played their best ever football under Kernan in the summer (just missed out on all-ireland final to Tyrone), and that in 2003 Laois made the league final on the way to their only Leinster title, and I think it is fair to say that sides who do well in the league normally do well in the summer.

How many of those times did these teams win provincial championships?

What I am saying is, probarbly not in the best way is how can Down be considered dark horses for Sam when they haven't won Ulster.

Its does indicate to an extent how a team will perform in the Championship but going back to my previous statement about the hype. Derry for instance, when they won the NFL a few years ago, if my memory serves me correct, we're they not then tipped to go on and win Ulster?

As for Armagh and Tyrone well they secured provincial championships before going on to win NFL titles. Teams like Monaghan, Down, Donegal etc should be setting their sights on provincial championship and not the NFL, I think they are going all out fot the title, like Down have this year and I think that this is why im unconvinced by them.