Football Championship 2014.....

What clubman are you Patk? I done a summer as we say here in the 1960's with Carrickmacross Emmets.
Here's one of the highlights from Meath/Carlow:

- This was a poor enough game.  It was played at a reasonable pace, but the quality was poor from both sides, and almost all the top performers were in the defences.

- Monaghan just about deserving winners - they were hungrier and better organised, and were more clearly aware of their gameplan.  

- I didn't see Monaghan displaying the levels of dominance to which others have alluded.  They first half was tit-for-tat with both sides taking it in turns to score points, while Monaghan failed to score in the last 17 minutes of the 2nd period.  Monaghan did have 4 goal chances to Tyrone's none, but at least 2 of these were the direct result of some very sloppy Tyrone defending as opposed to anything particularly impressive that Monaghan did.  Tyrone had 9 scores from play in comparison to Monaghan's 5.  Again, Monaghan probably deserved the win, but I didn't think that they were 6-8 points the better side.

- Colin Walshe and the Wylies were excellent, as was Rory Beggan behind them.  The Monaghan half backs also played very well, and so did Gollogly when he came on.   Kieran Hughes is a handful for anyone.  Friend of the forum, Dick Clerkin, had a very good game.

- Monaghan were tactically better.  They have improved from last year, similarly to how Donegal did between 2011-2012.  The side seem very sure of what is expected from them, and every man knows his role.  If they are at all focused, they will beat Armagh.

- For the fourth successive year, Tyrone have tumbled out of Ulster when faced by a blanket defence.  Just like in the Donegal trilogy, we appeared flummoxed and confused when unable to break at pace into open spaces.  We have neither the guile to unlock a packed defence, nor the power to run through it.  Mickey has to take a lot of this on his shoulders, as the 4 defeats have all been carbon copies of each other.

- To expand on that point, Tyrone lacked class out round the middle and half-forwards, and the quality of ball going into the FF line was terrible.  Floated or lobbed passes to small men covered by a sweeper just isn't good enough.

- The referee was shocking, issuing black cards for phantom fouls.  As for the timekeeping, well there were 2 minutes additional time played in both halves.  The first half had 1 booking (I think) and no substitutions, and no major stoppages.  The second half had about 7-8 substitutions and several lengthy delays for bookings/black cards.  I just don't understand how there could be 2 minutes in each half.  I've never seen Mickey Harte as furious as he was after the game.

- Morgan was the right man to hit the last free.  Give him, Cavanagh and McAliskey 10 attempts each from that spot at that stage of the game, and he'd score more than the other two.

- Mattie Donnelly was superb, and must be one of the very best footballers in Ireland.  Justin continues to get better on his return from injury, and McNamee was ok beside him.  Sean Cavanagh played for 10 minutes, while McCurry battled gamely but shot poorly.

- On the flip-side, Morgan looked very nervous, while Peter Harte started well but seemed not to reappear after the half-time break.  Grugan struggled to get into the game.  The forwards were shockingly poor - Boxty's 4 out of 10 comment was spot on.  

- Stevie O'Neill was a great servant and a magical footballer, but his time has passed.  To see him on his own 14 yard line late in the game was pitiful, but not as bad as watching him be blitzed past by Wylie on ever ball that came their way.  

- Mickey Harte had a bad day at the office.  How did SON last 70 minutes?  Why did Penrose spend most of the match at FF?  Why was PJ Lavery brought on, despite not even being deemed good enough to make a substitute's appearance since the McKenna Cup?  Why was Coney stationed at wing-forward when we needed a big man inside?  What does Connor McAliskey have to do to get a start?

- In what looked like a pre-meditated change, Conor Gormley was brought on for McNabb at half time, and he played as the spare man.  This was totally the wrong move.  Gormley picked up a lot of loose ball, but lacks the pace to cause any trouble on the overlap.  Fair enough if you want to play him to mark someone, but the spare man should have been someone like Peter Harte.

From another forum: No points for guessing any of the contributors.

Probably not, pal. I usually only start to attend from August onwards.


In an economic sense Bomber, I'd wait for the 2015 replica jersey if I were you.
Based on today's "efforts" you need to find:

i). A full back line.
ii). A solid ball-winning midfielder who's not afraid to "grapple" for it.
iii). A minimum of 4 forwards. (These should be natural footballers, space conscious and free scoring).
iv). A manager more intuitive to talent/ability/future to supercede loyalty/nepotism.
v). New strip. Red jerseys, red togs and socks. Lads look bigger/more fearsome clad in red.

Fógra scoir: Gormley is past it

Boxtyeater wrote:
Based on today's "efforts" you need to find:

v). New strip. Red jerseys, red togs and socks. Lads look bigger/more fearsome clad in red.

I agree totally, and it could be the makings of us. Red is a colour of power and success - think Tiger Woods, Ferrari, Stalin. In recent years, we branched into an all white ensemble, trying, one presumes, to emulate the success enjoyed by Kildare?   

I agree totally, and it could be the makings of us.  Red is a colour of power and success - think Tiger Woods, Ferrari, Stalin.  In recent years, we branched into an all white ensemble, trying, one presumes, to emulate the success enjoyed by Kildare?   [/quote]

Boxtyeater wrote:I agree totally, and it could be the makings of us.  Red is a colour of power and success - think Tiger Woods, Ferrari, Stalin.  In recent years, we branched into an all white ensemble, trying, one presumes, to emulate the success enjoyed by Kildare?   

[/quote]

We've already got the goalkeeper...

Father's Day - that never ending angst between books (ridiculed by Boxty years ago via Kindle), tentative suggestions to Gym subscriptions, spinning sessions at another gym, bottles of exclusive Jameson etc., have been trumped for a 3rd. time by those "lar na páirce" tickets in the Lower Hogan on 31/08/2014.

I feigned surprise of course, given that I've had the very best seats at the last 2 best ever semi-finals.

The addendum - We'll hit the corporate box after the game sounded all right by me.

Mickey being caught out too many times tactically by young managers.

We have enough good player son the panel to be a better side than we showed yesterday but Mickey is getting nothing from them, all is not well in that squad if you ask me.

Time for Mickey to have a long hard look at himself and perhaps ask the question is he still the best man to lead Tyrone forward.

bocerty wrote:Mickey being caught out too many times tactically by young managers.

We have enough good player son the panel to be a better side than we showed yesterday but Mickey is getting nothing from them, all is not well in that squad if you ask me.

Time for Mickey to have a long hard look at himself and perhaps ask the question is he still the best man to lead Tyrone forward.

I'm a big fan of what Mickey has achieved boc, and agree that Tyrone are better than what they showed yesterday and could have a good run in the qualifiers, sure they got to the Semis last year! I think that he will be best judged at the end of the season and should Tyrone flop then you may be right.

Big questions is, if Mickey decides he is not the best man to lead Tyrone forward (which i think he won't) who would take his place?

bald eagle wrote:

bocerty wrote:Mickey being caught out too many times tactically by young managers.

We have enough good player son the panel to be a better side than we showed yesterday but Mickey is getting nothing from them, all is not well in that squad if you ask me.

Time for Mickey to have a long hard look at himself and perhaps ask the question is he still the best man to lead Tyrone forward.

I'm a big fan of what Mickey has achieved boc, and agree that Tyrone are better than what they showed yesterday and could have a good run in the qualifiers, sure they got to the Semis last year!  I think that he will be best judged at the end of the season and should Tyrone flop then you may be right.  

Big questions is, if Mickey decides he is not the best man to lead Tyrone forward (which i think he won't) who would take his place?

BE i have a lot of respect for the man too for what he has achieved and what he has been through and i'm not one for putting the boot in on players / managers.

However look at Sundays game - we knew full well what way Monaghan were going to set themselves up against us, and lets face it its nothing new in terms of a game plan, granted not all teams can execute it as well as others. We had weeks to prepare for it and we still looked like a rabbit caught in the headlights and that the defensive set up was something new. At this level thats not good enough we looked clueless a lot of the time the balls going into the forward line particularly McCurry were hit and hope balls. We needed men on the overlap all the time to overcome the tight Monaghan defence and more often than not it never happened.

I have no doubt MH will continue - hes too stubborn to do anything else - but his reaction when the game was over was telling - yes the ref might have got some decisions wrong but lets face it we had enough chances in the first half to win the game so lets not blame others for the defeat.

As far as looking at a new man its a funny one because the Co Board wont want an outsider and yet i would look no further than the man who executed the win over us on Sunday O'Rourke

I didn't see the game so can't say Tyrone are better than what they showed but the impression I get is that they are ordinary enough in the overall scheme of things. To Tyrone people, they might see a team of young stars who showed what they can do at minor level but to a lot of people not that close to Tyrone, it's a team of nobodys.

Names like Ronan O'Neill, Conor Grugan, Ronan McNabb, Barry Tierney, Ronan McMcNamee, Conor McAliskey, Tiernan McCann, Niall McKenna, Ciaran McGinley, Shay McGuigan, Aidan McCrory, that's a long list of names I have heard of but I would need to look it up to even find out what position they played.

It's 3 or 4 changes from one game to the next with Tyrone. The only players we can be sure of seeing every day out are Mattie Donnelly, Peter Harte, Sean Cavanagh and Darren McCurry. The rest is a combination of the above list along with a cult hero or two from 2003 / 2005.

Loyal2TheRoyal wrote:I didn't see the game so can't say Tyrone are better than what they showed but the impression I get is that they are ordinary enough in the overall scheme of things. To Tyrone people, they might see a team of young stars who showed what they can do at minor level but to a lot of people not that close to Tyrone, it's a team of nobodys.

Names like Ronan O'Neill, Conor Grugan, Ronan McNabb, Barry Tierney, Ronan McMcNamee, Conor McAliskey, Tiernan McCann, Niall McKenna, Ciaran McGinley, Shay McGuigan, Aidan McCrory, that's a long list of names I have heard of but I would need to look it up to even find out what position they played.

It's 3 or 4 changes from one game to the next with Tyrone. The only players we can be sure of seeing every day out are Mattie Donnelly, Peter Harte, Sean Cavanagh and Darren McCurry. The rest is a combination of the above list along with a cult hero or two from 2003 / 2005.

What a difference from last September….

Loyal2TheRoyal wrote:...Tyrone's curve is upward….

Tyrone have the pick of the youngsters in the country - All-Ireland minor champions in 2008 and 2010 (haven't followed up on that at u21 though which is a worry) and are in another minor semi-final next weekend.

So resources are there - it's about getting the right players with the right attitude. Plus the ones that are there - McCurry, Clarke, McAliskey are serious players. They are all one performance away from the top table of footballers - the public are naïve enough when it comes to rating players I think. Dosen't take a lot to rise up into AllStar material when you're with a big team.

Sorry, I couldn't resist but, to be fair to you, you make valid points.  You are right in what you say about those lads not being stars yet.  Some may become big names, as they are in the early stages of their careers.  Others are already good players (McGinley, for instance, didn't give Graham Reilly a kick of the ball last August), while more still are dining out on minor glories (in Ronan O'Neill's case, he seems to have eaten more than his fair share, as he looks overweight).

Bocerty is also right, in that Mickey needs to stop moaning and sort the show out.  If he can't improve the team, then he should consider what he is trying to achieve.  There's no point crying about not getting enough injury time, or the opposition slowing the game down to waste time.  We've done it ourselves before, and the only way to prevent it is to make sure you are leading when the game enters the final stages.

We've reached 1 AI final in 9 years.  From memory, we've reached the division 1 league semi finals once in those 9 years.  We've failed to reach an Ulster final now for 4 straight years.  None of this is impressive, yet Mickey has retained the same trainer and assistant manager for all that time.   I think that it's at least time to shake up the backroom and get some fresh ideas and voices in there.

In just 3 championship games this year, Mickey has used an incredible 28 players.  Throw in regulars Joe McMahon and Paddy McNeice who are injured and you'd have 30.  Then you have Shay McGuigan who started almost every league game at CHF, but hasn't been seen since April.  Basically, this is a sign of a man who is shuffling the deck in the hope of finding a full-house and, considering that we reached an AI semi-final last summer, it is staggering to think that we still have no idea of our best side.

Tyrone lack an identity.  We started the year playing fast, expansive football, but have gradually slowed as the older players were brought back.  We now look neither solid/experienced nor fast/adventurous, and have fallen between the two stools.  We need to decide what our style and identity is, and see it through for the year.  Enough of the tinkering.

Tactically, we can't cope with a blanket defence, as we lack the guile to unlock it, or the power to run through it.  We saw this on Sunday, and in identical scenarios in the 3 years vs Donegal.  Some people will attribute this to Mickey being outfoxed tactically, while others will say that we just don't have the players (an extension of the latter point, however, is to say that Mickey has been picking the panel for 12 years, and he should be selecting the right sort of player to develop/improve in the first place).

Anyway, it's time for the players to stand up and show some badly-lacking leadership, and for Mickey to get it right.  Tyrone don't have Dublin's resources, but we have enough talent in the squad make the AI quarter finals at least.  I expect that we'll do that, and failure to reach that stage should be seen for what it is.

I'd hate to be the one to give it to ye', but looking at Tyrone for the past years, the problem with their game/game-plan/structure is a total lack of cohesion/direction/penetration.

Currently, Tyrone are beatable - by almost anybody - on a given day. I'm tired here fulsomising the role of 11 - made for SON. He'll need aggressive/driving wing-backs and combatitive wing-forwards. These will need to be Dooher type grafters
to allow his foot-passing abilities to the inside line be fully released. Given the efforts the Cavanaghs are likely to provide at midfield in terms of possession, surely O'Neill can be facilitated with "ball in hand" a certain % of the time.

Boxtyeater wrote:
Currently, Tyrone are beatable - by almost anybody - on a given day. I'm tired here fulsomising the role of 11 - made for SON. He'll need aggressive/driving wing-backs and combatitive wing-forwards. These will need to be Dooher type grafters
to allow his foot-passing abilities to the inside line be fully released. Given the efforts the Cavanaghs are likely to provide at midfield in terms of possession, surely O'Neill can be facilitated with "ball in hand" a certain % of the time.

Personally, I don't think he has it anymore, Boxty. I know it was only his first start of the year, but he looked a shadow of himself against Monaghan and, at 34, I doubt he'd have the legs to play at CHF. Perhaps he could give us 10 minutes at the end of a game when the pace has sufficiently slowed, but I don't view him as more than that at this stage.

Bocerty knows the man and has been a long term admirer - be keen to hear his thoughts on this one?

Boxtyeater wrote:What clubman are you Patk? I done a summer as we say here in the 1960's with Carrickmacross Emmets.

Sorry Boxty didn't see this til now, I'm a Clontibret native.

Are Derry the England of Gaelic football? We never fail to disappoint in providing some hope in the league then bombing in the championship as if playing some sick joke on our supporters! I am at a loss for words.

Bald Eagle a chara, calm down or you'll have an heart attack. It's only oul' football at the end of the day.
You're stressed looking....

Fookin' Laois, the baxtards. I had an accum in play (Laois - 4, Galway -2, Tipperary +10 and Galway +4) all at evens to make the weeks porter money....Grrr.
In fairness, the Swampies never threw in the towel, Seanie Quigley kicked 2-08 or 2-09 to keep them ever threatening, but they didn't have enough quality players to lend him a hand and were a little naivee at the back. All said, Laois, unless gifted a pudding draw, are in the departure lounge awaiting the flight.

patk wrote:

Boxtyeater wrote:What clubman are you Patk? I done a summer as we say here in the 1960's with Carrickmacross Emmets.

Sorry Boxty didn't see this til now, I'm a Clontibret native.

Omar,s  outlaws hail from  to An Bhoth.

Isn't that where the crows ate the missioner?

Boxtyeater wrote:Isn't that where the crows ate the missioner?

Not familiar with this 
Though it's an interesting parish 
3 ale houses 
1. Henry's still doesn't have draught beer
2. Mckeagues - schoolmasters and Known in Gaa circles 
3. Moyna,s - Niall of UCD/ dublin back room fame - the daughter married to an Olympic silver medallist - but the other sons( Tommy and co. )  the more colourful of the clan.

Donegal will be as short as 4/6 to win the Anglo-Celt cup on the back of this facile victory. Is this the true position/reflection on yesterdays game? I think not.
They amassed 3-16 but only a smidgeón of this came from the vaunted inside line. Granted, the half-forward line burst into top gear from the gun, but against sterner and cuter defenders, such as will confront them in an Ulster final, their paths and goal-bound runs are likely to be curtailed in a vigorous fashion. It's unlikely, nay, inconceivable, that the 20 yd. run and carry - with 1 playing of the ball - by Darach (Mini-Jigger) O'Connor would pass the scrutiny of a stricter referee or more un-compromising defenders.

McNiallis and indeed O'Connor look to be finds in fairness, but overall contributions of McBrearty and McFadden counterbalance this. The middle eight (5-12) will decide the Ulster final, forget the rest. In this area, should they prevail against Armagh, I'll give the nod to Monaghan.

Donegal are still hard to evaluate for me. They are somewhere between 2012 and 2013 but it's hard to know which direction they are heading in.

Beating Derry has proven not be the feat it looked it be at the time and the first half against Antrim was hardly convincing.

In fact I thought they looked very flat coming towards half-time and a better team might have sustained their effort after the break. McFadden and Murphy don't look as sharp as once upon a time, McBrearty is still the 17 year old footballer that arrived on the scene in 2011, the midfield and Karl Lacey are injury prone and Eamonn Gee is a weak link in the defence.

OMAR wrote:

patk wrote:

Boxtyeater wrote:What clubman are you Patk? I done a summer as we say here in the 1960's with Carrickmacross Emmets.

Sorry Boxty didn't see this til now, I'm a Clontibret native.

Omar,s  outlaws hail from  to An Bhoth.

Them boys gave us a right trimming in the championship final last year!   Was a long time coming for them though I suppose.

Loyal2TheRoyal wrote:Donegal are still hard to evaluate for me. They are somewhere between 2012 and 2013 but it's hard to know which direction they are heading in.

Beating Derry has proven not be the feat it looked it be at the time and the first half against Antrim was hardly convincing.

In fact I thought they looked very flat coming towards half-time and a better team might have sustained their effort after the break. McFadden and Murphy don't look as sharp as once upon a time, McBrearty is still the 17 year old footballer that arrived on the scene in 2011, the midfield and Karl Lacey are injury prone and Eamonn Gee is a weak link in the defence.

Let's be honest, Donegal didn't get out of third for the Derry game, in fact they only hit top gear for 8 minutes. The victory may not be seen as a big one, but the manner in which a Division 2 side toyed with the Division 1 finalists is impressive. Big questions are, 1) Can they keep improving? and 2) Just how would they cope with Dublin should they meet later.