League Semi-finals on the way back - Good or Bad?

From the Irish Indo -

THEY have experienced more surgery than an operating theatre over the past 15 years and now the National Leagues are facing the knife again.

Saturday's Central Council will consider reinstating semi-finals in Division 1 of the hurling and football leagues. For the past three seasons in football, and two in hurling, there were no league semi-finals. Instead, the top two counties qualified directly for the final.

That was designed to complete the leagues as early as possible and leave more time before the start of the championships. However, it hasn't been universally popular -- especially in hurling -- hence the proposal to re-instate semi-finals.

A particular problem arose this year when Cork and Galway had already qualified for the Division 1 hurling final before they were due to meet in the final round of games. However, they had to complete the fixture and, with both counties fielding weakened teams in what was essentially a meaningless game, the attendance was less than 500.

The Kilkenny-Waterford and Offaly-Tipperary games on the same day were also irrelevant in league terms, as none could reach the final, while all four were safe from relegation. The only meaningful game was the relegation clash between Limerick and Dublin.

Had semi-finals applied, five of the eight counties in the group would have been in contention going into the final series of games.

In football, Cork had qualified for the final before their last Division 1 game against Mayo, who needed to win to reach the decider. Cork left out several regulars and Mayo won by five points, squeezing out Dublin, who beat Tyrone on the same afternoon.

If semi-finals are restored in Division 1, they can't apply until 2012 as it would take a Congress decision to change the regulations.

Restricted

Central Council has the power to decide on league formats, but are restricted by rule to running Divisions 1, 2 and 3 over eight weekends. It takes seven rounds to play off the divisional games, allowing just one more weekend to complete the competitions.

The restoration of the semi-finals would increase the running time to nine weekends, but that requires a change of rule, which is a Congress function.

While news of yet another overhaul of the league structures won't come as a surprise after a few seasons where the absence of semi-finals was seen as negative, there will be a sense of bewilderment at the continued failure to devise a system that enhances the competition, while also satisfying the needs of counties.

The only consistent feature of the National Leagues has been the loyalty shown by sponsors Allianz, who have been involved for 18 successive seasons, making it one of the longest sponsorships in Irish sport.

The formats have been repeatedly changed in both codes over the years, but have only served to lessen interest in the closing stages of the competitions.

Recent history has shown that while there's big interest in the early stages, it tends to taper off. The removal of the semi-finals has further damaged the product, as have the annual claims by many team managers that the league doesn't really count.

The NFL staged four quarter-finals for several years up the 1990s, comprising four Division 1 teams, two Division 2 and one each from Divisions 3 and 4. Laois won the title from Division 3 in 1986.

The leagues have undergone a raft of alterations since then, including the scrapping of the pre-Christmas games in favour of running the entire competition in the February-May period. There were complaints that playing games in October-November-December added to the costs for counties and that public interest wasn't particularly high, since teams were often below strength.

The growth of the provincial club championships was another factor in the decision to play the leagues in the one calendar year. However, when combined with college and U-21 games, it resulted in a congested period between February and late April which, in turn, led to the scrapping of the league quarter-finals and semi-finals.

Now, it looks as if there will be another change with the semi-finals returning to the schedule. Their absence has led to a drop in revenue and since all league money is shared among the counties, it's in everybody's interest to have more games.

If semi-finals applied this year the line-up would have been as follows: Football: Kerry v Mayo; Dublin v Cork; Hurling: Galway v Kilkenny; Tipperary v Cork. All four would have been attractive -- and lucrative -- games, especially if played as double-headers.

One of the big negatives for the NFL over the last decade was Dublin's failure to reach either the Division 1 semi-finals or finals. As the top crowd-pullers for big occasions, Dublin's absence from the knock-out stages since 1999 has been significant in terms of profile and revenue.

It remains to be seen how Central Council react to a proposal to restore the semi-finals, although the odds are that it will be accepted, certainly in hurling.

- Martin Breheny

Irish Independent

I can see the reasoning behind it on both scales. It will mean that we won't have a re-run of last years NHL where the only meaningful game was the relegation battle and the rest of the Div 1 games were "dead rubbers". It would also mean a chance for the GAA to up it's profit potential with the re-introduction of more lucrative games.

It means however that the GAA will once again vote to change an existing agreement to extend the league run from 8 weeks to 9 weeks, but as they are voting to change the 5 year rule we shouldn't be surprised really, should we?

Opinions please......

It's utter ***** - typical GAA money-grabbing. Got to have a big day out to swell the coffers.

Personally, I don't agree with having League finals, never mind semi-finals. If you finish top of a league then you were the best team in it, end of. Having a one-off game to decide the winner completely devalues it (and before anyone points out, I am fully aware that Sligo have benefitted from this for the last 2 seasons!).
The current system gives rise to a potential situation where a team could go through the league undefeated, only to lose the final to a team which has lost 2 games. Both teams will ahve played the exact same opposition, yet the team who wins seven and loses one will be the runner up, and the team that only wins 6, and loses 2, will be Champion. Utter b******s.

Adding in semi-finals makes it even more ridiculous, now a team could potentially lose 3/4 games, finish with an 6-3 (win 4 league games, semi and final) and be crowned champions ahead of a team finishing 8-1.

It's a farce, designed only to make some cash for the poverty-stricken GAA

Sure you can finish fourth in your League and be the Champions of Europe ...

Jayo Cluxton wrote:Sure you can finish fourth in your League and be the Champions of Europe ...

But you're not crowned League Champions for it!

The main objection I have is that the team that tops the league gets absolutely no recognition. The whole point of a league competition is to reward consistency. It is supposed to eliminate the chance of teams being eliminated on the back of a once-off poor performance, and reward the team that it consistently strong across the season. Having a final at the end defeats the purpose.

Don't disagree with that B&W. Most sports have gone that way in recent years - presumably for bumper crowds and tv money. Magners Lge and Guinness P'ship in rugby, basketball top four, hockey AFAIK, the last promotion place in football etc.

While i agree with your sentiments b&w, i think what Jc is saying is that the League structures have changed and counties have full knowledge of these changes.

If you know that the top 4 will play off for the league then the main purpose is getting into the top 4 and not topping the league. If a team busts it's pan to top the league and then lose in the league semi-final then it is the fault of the players and more improtantly management for not getting their priorities right.

If the league stayed the same with the top team winning it i think you would see a difference in the attitudes of the competing teams, they would either be hell bent on winning it, or staying in the division.

Either way, the set up of the leagues should be decided by the competing counties, all of them, and not the GAA top brass! If the counties speak in favour of a 2 or 4 team play off, or that the team at the top at the end wins then the GAA should respect that for at least 3 full seasons before the counties get to vote on the reformation again.

I'd like to see more views on this, especially from our club champions on here!

lads, Are these changes only being proposed or Division 1 or right across the board? perhaps someone could clarify this just for the benefit of those of us in the lower divisions....

What to say, most people have covered the main points,
1. its a money making exercise that all county boards will "buy" into.
2. It will have a massive impact on the club scene, from the point of view that some counties may not get to start there championship in April/May now with the extra week been added in.
3.It can have a positive effect in that a county effected by having a team in the all ireland club finals can afford to lose a few games and still qualify.
4. Shows how detached top brass are from the grass roots.

Christy was in Loch Garman last Wednesday for the club forum night.
Biggest round of applause was not for him of the speech he gave (which I thought was excellent) but for those who spoke against the qualifiers and how it is having an adverse effect on the club scene. He didn't duck the issue but he let people know that revenue was very important.
Have to admit he did point out a major flaw in GAA in Wexford and it went so far over peoples heads I fear they totally missed the point he made.

mugsys_barber wrote:lads, Are these changes only being proposed or Division 1 or right across the board? perhaps someone could clarify this just for the benefit of those of us in the lower divisions....

dont worry about it mugsy, it only concerns the top teams

JimWexford wrote:Have to admit he did point out a major flaw in GAA in Wexford and it went so far over peoples heads I fear they totally missed the point he made.

Do you want to share it with us Jim or did it go over your head too??

Or did he just point out ye are crap ...