All Ireland Gold

**bocerty** Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:25 pm

Great match on TG4 tonight - a chance to see again the 2003 All Ireland S/F between the maestros of Kerry and the then pretenders from Tyrone.

Brings back all those memories like they were yesterday cheers

**Jayo Cluxton** Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:45 pm

I'd record that Boc - might be a while before it happens again. You Tyrone lads are lucky really - all your success is in colour and high definition. I suppose thats the beauty of 119 years of oblivion ........ Laughing

**bluearmy1** Thu Sep 16, 2010 12:04 am

Watching it now....ready to puke..

**3inarow08** Thu Sep 16, 2010 12:24 pm

bluearmy1 wrote:Watching it now....ready to puke..

**redhandman** Thu Sep 16, 2010 1:09 pm

Heres a question, everyone commented on how great tipp were a fortnight ago and the intensity they showed in overcoming the might of kilkenny.

what is the difference between tyrone in 2003 v kerry and tipp v kilkenny 2010?

i have never watched the smie of 03 back in full . in fact rarely watch games back in full again. i have been there and enjoyed the tension and atmosphere on the day watchin it back just isnt the same. i'll keep the memories

but i remember vividly the swarm tackling of that day never seen before. unbelivable .

**Real Kerry Fan** Thu Sep 16, 2010 1:15 pm

Is this a new programme?Are there more matches? Must look out for it next week if so.

**3inarow08** Thu Sep 16, 2010 1:20 pm

redhandman wrote:Heres a question, everyone commented on how great tipp were a fortnight ago and the intensity they showed in overcoming the might of kilkenny.

what is the difference between tyrone in 2003 v kerry and tipp v kilkenny 2010?

i have never watched the smie of 03 back in full . in fact rarely watch games back in full again. i have been there and enjoyed the tension and atmosphere on the day watchin it back just isnt the same. i'll keep the memories

but i remember vividly the swarm tackling of that day never seen before. unbelivable .

I have different views on the game. Intensity is all well and good, but when you have a man on the ground, trying to rise so that he can pick up the ball, surrounded by at least 4 or 5 players, being pushed, shoved, kicked (or as some might see it "attempted to kick the ball from under the player") and this happens numerous times during the game, well then I don't see it as enjoyable. Swarm tackling as you call it. The very word "swarm" makes me cringe. Obviously that match is/was enjoyable for every Tyrone fan, it's their first ever All Ireland, ye're going to see it in a "can do no wrong" type of light. We've lost something like 20 or so finals, including one where we could have got a 5 in a row bar a debatable goal in the last minute, but 2003 (and also 2002 for me personally) rank up there as the worst. And it's nothing to do with the teams being from the North/Ulster in my mind, as we've lost many of them 20 All Irelands to Northern/Ulster teams before. It's the type of game that was used to beat us that hurts.

**bluearmy1** Thu Sep 16, 2010 3:33 pm

For me there were 2 ways of looking at that game. In Down we see Gaelic football as an attacking game, we expect free flowing football, and the development squads and minor/U21 have almost always favoured skilful players over pure muscle. Put it like this....Francie Bellew is an iconic Armagh legend but would never have got near a Down team. Not because he wasn't good enough but because he simply is not what Down look for in a player. That mentality hasn't always served us well in a province more characterised by physical football. But to see a highly respected and fantastic player like Dara O'Cinneide not even being given a dog's chance to get on his feet seemed less like the lovely flowing football we aspire to and more like rugby. Yes it was disciplined Tyrone tackling and I wouldn't even say it was a particularly dirty style of football. But it took away the flow of the sport. The difference between Tipp this year and Tyrone in 2003 is that hurling will always be a fast paced sport regardless and will always involve high levels of skill. Gaelic football needs flow if it is to be an attractive sport.

The other way of looking at that game was that Tyrone had never won an All-Ireland and Kerry were sitting on 32. Would it have been fair to expect Tyrone to let Kerry flow down the pitch while the Red Hands just stood and watched? Should they have just accepted the footballing superiority of the Kingdom and bowed down to the undisputed kingpins of Gaelic football? Of course not. It was a negative match....an anti-showcase of Gaelic football. But in terms of tactical awareness and logic it was a perfect display by Tyrone.

But you would have to say this Tyrone team is one of the most loathed for some time (risky comment yes). This is a team that will rightly be remembered for its rapid rise to the top tabel of Gaelic football but also remembered as a team that brought a new style of play (although I would have to credit Armagh with the development of the blanket defence, but Tyrone took it to a new level) into the game that divides the traditionalists and the forward thinkers.

To me, the counties that were mentioned on this site as counties of traditional footballing pedigree; Kerry, Dublin, Galway, Meath, Down etc all seem more likely to dislike the 'Tyrone way' while the counties who have yet to establish themselves as footballing powers (much in the way Tyrone were pre-2003 and let's say Down were pre-1960) would take inspiration from Tyrone's example; if winning ugly at the beginning gets you trophies and confidence, then the champagne football will someday follow.

**Jayo Cluxton** Thu Sep 16, 2010 3:36 pm

Recent Meath All Ireland winning teams were not exactly known for their footballing swagger in all fairness ....

**bluearmy1** Thu Sep 16, 2010 4:19 pm

Yes I know but it's hard to deny they would be considered one of the traditional footballing powers....even if their style wasn't exactly traditional.

**patrique** Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:38 pm

redhandman wrote:Heres a question, everyone commented on how great tipp were a fortnight ago and the intensity they showed in overcoming the might of kilkenny.

what is the difference between tyrone in 2003 v kerry and tipp v kilkenny 2010?

i have never watched the smie of 03 back in full . in fact rarely watch games back in full again. i have been there and enjoyed the tension and atmosphere on the day watchin it back just isnt the same. i'll keep the memories

but i remember vividly the swarm tackling of that day never seen before. unbelivable .

Skill.

**RMDrive** Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:21 pm

3inarow08 wrote:
redhandman wrote:Heres a question, everyone commented on how great tipp were a fortnight ago and the intensity they showed in overcoming the might of kilkenny.

what is the difference between tyrone in 2003 v kerry and tipp v kilkenny 2010?

i have never watched the smie of 03 back in full . in fact rarely watch games back in full again. i have been there and enjoyed the tension and atmosphere on the day watchin it back just isnt the same. i'll keep the memories

but i remember vividly the swarm tackling of that day never seen before. unbelivable .

I have different views on the game. Intensity is all well and good, but when you have a man on the ground, trying to rise so that he can pick up the ball, surrounded by at least 4 or 5 players, being pushed, shoved, kicked (or as some might see it "attempted to kick the ball from under the player") and this happens numerous times during the game, well then I don't see it as enjoyable. Swarm tackling as you call it. The very word "swarm" makes me cringe. Obviously that match is/was enjoyable for every Tyrone fan, it's their first ever All Ireland, ye're going to see it in a "can do no wrong" type of light. We've lost something like 20 or so finals, including one where we could have got a 5 in a row bar a debatable goal in the last minute, but 2003 (and also 2002 for me personally) rank up there as the worst. And it's nothing to do with the teams being from the North/Ulster in my mind, as we've lost many of them 20 All Irelands to Northern/Ulster teams before. It's the type of game that was used to beat us that hurts.

I read this as .... I'm still sore that the band of men representing my county were bullied out of it and weren't able to stand toe to toe with the Tyrone lads. What really hurts is that we had no answer to them but I'm going to hide my hurt behind some excuses about footballing styles.

**RMDrive** Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:22 pm

patrique wrote:
redhandman wrote:Heres a question, everyone commented on how great tipp were a fortnight ago and the intensity they showed in overcoming the might of kilkenny.

what is the difference between tyrone in 2003 v kerry and tipp v kilkenny 2010?

i have never watched the smie of 03 back in full . in fact rarely watch games back in full again. i have been there and enjoyed the tension and atmosphere on the day watchin it back just isnt the same. i'll keep the memories

but i remember vividly the swarm tackling of that day never seen before. unbelivable .

Skill.

Typical BS from this fool. Tipp are a very skillful team and were rightly crowned champions.

**Jayo Cluxton** Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:28 pm

RMDrive wrote:Skill.

Typical BS from this fool. Tipp are a very skillful team and were rightly crowned champions.[/quote]

In fairness RM I think P is saying that the difference between Tyrone and Tipp was that Tipp had skill ....

**Thomas Clarke** Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:31 pm

Jayo Cluxton wrote:Recent Meath All Ireland winning teams were not exactly known for their footballing swagger in all fairness ....

And, equally in fairness Jayo, nor were the Dubs in '95 and '83. And let's not start on Kerry last year, and their negativity from the first 2 seconds of the final (Kennelly).

**Jayo Cluxton** Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:43 pm

I have said here before that our last two wins (ie actual Finals) were not exactly enjoyable - which is often the case. However that is to overlook the entertaining way that both the 83 team and the early to mid 90s team played the game. For example the semi replay in '83 was superb football. Not much you can do minus 3 men in terms of attractive football. Some of the 90s clashes with a host of counties (lost more than won) were great games with the half backs among the most attacking GAA has ever seen.

**Thomas Clarke** Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:49 pm

Jayo Cluxton wrote:I have said here before that our last two wins (ie actual Finals) were not exactly enjoyable - which is often the case. However that is to overlook the entertaining way that both the 83 team and the early to mid 90s team played the game. For example the semi replay in '83 was superb football. Not much you can do minus 3 men in terms of attractive football. Some of the 90s clashes with a host of counties (lost more than won) were great games with the half backs among the most attacking GAA has ever seen.

Very much like Tyrone in 2003 Jayo. They played fabulous football throughout the year, until the 2nd half against Kerry. They then went into their shell for the remainder of that game and the final, and it almost cost them the all-ireland.

The 90s Dublin team was very similar, in that they played attractive, attacking football in the finals they lost, and were ultra-defensive (fear of losing again?) in the final they won. The '95 and '03 finals were amongst the poorest I ever attended. The best side won them both, but both should have done it more easily and with more style.

**Jayo Cluxton** Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:58 pm

Thats the fear factor TC! If they played attractive football and lost there would've been hell to pay. You see bad Finals in lots of sports. That Dubs team of 95 HAD to win that final - no matter what, why, where or how.

**RMDrive** Thu Sep 16, 2010 11:25 pm

Jayo Cluxton wrote:
RMDrive wrote:Skill.

Typical BS from this fool. Tipp are a very skillful team and were rightly crowned champions.

In fairness RM I think P is saying that the difference between Tyrone and Tipp was that Tipp had skill ....[/quote]

Rolling Eyes

Do you think?

**patrique** Thu Sep 16, 2010 11:28 pm

RMDrive wrote:
patrique wrote:
redhandman wrote:Heres a question, everyone commented on how great tipp were a fortnight ago and the intensity they showed in overcoming the might of kilkenny.

what is the difference between tyrone in 2003 v kerry and tipp v kilkenny 2010?

i have never watched the smie of 03 back in full . in fact rarely watch games back in full again. i have been there and enjoyed the tension and atmosphere on the day watchin it back just isnt the same. i'll keep the memories

but i remember vividly the swarm tackling of that day never seen before. unbelivable .

Thanks for agreeing RM, appreciate it.

A bit surprised you understood my one word post, but there you go.

Skill.

Typical BS from this fool. Tipp are a very skillful team and were rightly crowned champions.

**bocerty** Thu Sep 16, 2010 11:28 pm

RMDrive wrote:
Jayo Cluxton wrote:
RMDrive wrote:Skill.

Typical BS from this fool. Tipp are a very skillful team and were rightly crowned champions.

In fairness RM I think P is saying that the difference between Tyrone and Tipp was that Tipp had skill ....

Do you think?[/quote

its never as funny RMD when you have to explain it!!!!

**patrique** Thu Sep 16, 2010 11:29 pm

RMDrive wrote:
patrique wrote:
redhandman wrote:Heres a question, everyone commented on how great tipp were a fortnight ago and the intensity they showed in overcoming the might of kilkenny.

what is the difference between tyrone in 2003 v kerry and tipp v kilkenny 2010?

i have never watched the smie of 03 back in full . in fact rarely watch games back in full again. i have been there and enjoyed the tension and atmosphere on the day watchin it back just isnt the same. i'll keep the memories

but i remember vividly the swarm tackling of that day never seen before. unbelivable .

Skill.

Typical BS from this fool. Tipp are a very skillful team and were rightly crowned champions.

Thanks for agreeing RM, appreciate it.

A bit surprised you understood my one word post, but there you go.

**3inarow08** Fri Sep 17, 2010 4:22 pm

RMDrive wrote:
3inarow08 wrote:
redhandman wrote:Heres a question, everyone commented on how great tipp were a fortnight ago and the intensity they showed in overcoming the might of kilkenny.

what is the difference between tyrone in 2003 v kerry and tipp v kilkenny 2010?

i have never watched the smie of 03 back in full . in fact rarely watch games back in full again. i have been there and enjoyed the tension and atmosphere on the day watchin it back just isnt the same. i'll keep the memories

but i remember vividly the swarm tackling of that day never seen before. unbelivable .

I have different views on the game. Intensity is all well and good, but when you have a man on the ground, trying to rise so that he can pick up the ball, surrounded by at least 4 or 5 players, being pushed, shoved, kicked (or as some might see it "attempted to kick the ball from under the player") and this happens numerous times during the game, well then I don't see it as enjoyable. Swarm tackling as you call it. The very word "swarm" makes me cringe. Obviously that match is/was enjoyable for every Tyrone fan, it's their first ever All Ireland, ye're going to see it in a "can do no wrong" type of light. We've lost something like 20 or so finals, including one where we could have got a 5 in a row bar a debatable goal in the last minute, but 2003 (and also 2002 for me personally) rank up there as the worst. And it's nothing to do with the teams being from the North/Ulster in my mind, as we've lost many of them 20 All Irelands to Northern/Ulster teams before. It's the type of game that was used to beat us that hurts.

I read this as .... I'm still sore that the band of men representing my county were bullied out of it and weren't able to stand toe to toe with the Tyrone lads. What really hurts is that we had no answer to them but I'm going to hide my hurt behind some excuses about footballing styles.

You can read it whatever way you like.

**redhandman** Fri Sep 17, 2010 4:35 pm

well i liked it. just because its not everyones cup of tea it doesnt mean its not enjoyable. defending is a skill of the game too.

**bluearmy1** Fri Sep 17, 2010 6:09 pm

Also think the sight of Diarmuid Marsden being sent off in the '03 final was one of the saddest I've seen on the pitch. One of the few Armagh players I actually liked, always a gentleman and walked off the pitch gracefully. Terrible pity for a player like that to leave the game in that way.

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