Saville Report

Well it was 38 years coming - a lot of heartache for families and a botched attempt to cover it up - but finally the Saville Report has concluded what everybody knew. That innocent and unarmed civilians were killed while participating in a peaceful civil rights march.

It was emotional watching the scenes from Derry today and great to see the dignified joy of the families and the Derry people in their hour of vindication. The new PMs fulsome apology is also welcome and its significance was not lost on the families.

Thank God they finally have justice. Watching them and the people of Derry today - and their dignity and courage and probably most of all - their graciousness - has been remarkable. Utter respect to all.

It's mad but even as a young lad in the 80's I remember how Bloody Sunday remained a real sore point. It was always talked about and was a terrible burden for the people of Derry and indeed people of the North.
It's an important day and hopefully the families will find it to be a positive day for them. And hopefully now the DPP will have the courage to go after these murderers and their puppeteers.

As I said elsewhere the people to blame, and who were never brought to justice and never will be, were people at the top.

The Government, advised by gung ho top military personell who had served in Aden agreed to teach the "natives" a lesson. They were supported in this by a leading Northern politician, who the OIRA tried to assassinate shortly afterwards, seeking retribution. That politician had over ruled the concerns shown by the local RUC.

The paras do what they are told. They ran a tank over a "loyalist" on the Shankhill Road a few years earlier, the first army "victim" of the "troubles". Prosecuting rank and file soldiers would be a bit like proscecuting the pilot over Hiroshima.

The top people were to blame, and they will never be asked to pay.

Today is as good as it will get for justice, and Cameron was quite impressive.

RMDrive wrote:And hopefully now the DPP will have the courage to go after these murderers and their puppeteers.

What impressed me most in seeing the close relatives was the dignity shown. None of them expressed a personal interest in this - it was not about this - it was about justice and the clearing of their loved ones' names - that was paramount. And their courage and lack of bitterness and calls for recrimination spoke volumes for them as people.

patrique wrote:
Today is as good as it will get for justice, and Cameron was quite impressive.

No such comment could apply to Gregory Campbell MP. MLA.....The one sour note but what's new??

The dignified manner in which the families went about achieving justice was incredible under the circumstances. The truth about Bloody Sunday has long been known, and now acknowledged. The British Army murdered innocent Irish civilians that day and a Conservative Unionist PM has apologised for the 'unjustified and unjustifiable'. The DUP's reaction voiced by Gregory Campbell was incredibly disappointing, a reminder of the Unionist views which had so many marching on that day in the first place. But the important thing is, at long last, the people of Derry are free from the burden of blame.

As I was saying this is perhaps what the yanks mean when they use the term 'closure'

The families and community who directly suffered, looked genuinely relieved and content with Savilles conclusions today and the truth contained within the report would have had a lot to do with that. That in itself, was all a report such as this, could ever have hoped to achieve.

The reaction of the people involved contrasted to that of Campbell tell their own tale. The best thing is not to even comment about it. Let people everywhere make their minds up as to who are the heros here and who are contemptible.

That new Secretary of State for N.I. Owen Patterson doesn't look up to much..
Miriam gave him a bit of a filleting on Primetime and the best you could say about him was that he was "rattled".
Spoofing on about "the integrity of the armed forces"....

As a proud Derry girl was up in the Guildhall Square today to hear the Saville report. Although I was not born at the time of Bloody Sunday I have been told a lot about it by my parents and at school. Today when the families came out into the square and when we watched the live broadcast of David Cameron I could feel nothing but emotion. I was born in a city with some mental scars of Bloody Sunday and I remember when I was younger going through the Bogside/Creggan on the last Sunday in January and seeing the people protest for justice, Iam so glad that this day came for the families and this city as a whole, It gives us closure.
Tonight watching Spotlight I was enraged to see the outrageous comments made by Mr Gregory Campbell about this case, I personally dont think that there was a need for his comments tonight. At least the truth is free that is all.

Gregory Campbell is speaking for himself, aned I haven't actually heard what he said as I have no interest.

My father was from the bogside, "where our school played ball by the Gasyard wall" in Stanley's Walk to be precise where the gasyard was.

I was at the march that day, and always knew where the blame lay.

Could I also say that my old friend Eamon McCann deserves immense credit in all of this as it has been a personal crusade for Eamon to ensure that justice was finally seen to be done.

As Jayo says the dignity shown by the families is what this is about.

What is your take on Cameron's performance today Pat?
It looked like he was genuine enough but you can never tell with these career politician types

The man is a career politician, but EVERYONE knows what happened in Derry and has known for years. They did the same thing in Peterloo in Manchester in 1815, and closer to the trouble in N.Ireland they did it in Aden, Kenya and Cyprus.

Now I am the man who tries to see two sides to most things but Derry was a decision taken about 5 days before it happened. The RUC said the paras shouldn't be allowed near the place and were ignored.

So....cameron. He did look genuine, but that is what he is paid to do. However giving him the benefit of the doubt i think he was more or less genuine as a lot of people do not realise what happens at "war" in their name.

'War' is what you make it I suppose

''Their flowers the tenderness of patient minds,
And each slow dusk a drawing-down of blinds''

Boxtyeater wrote:

patrique wrote:
Today is as good as it will get for justice, and Cameron was quite impressive.

No such comment could apply to Gregory Campbell MP. MLA.....The one sour note but what's new??

You should have heard Jeffery Donaldson on BBC 5Live (909MW) this morning, the interviewer asked him how the families would feel now the report has concluded what they said all along and all he could keep banging on about was the IRA, the PIRA, Martin McGuinness and his supposed actions on the day, it was disgusting to listen to someone remain so bitter even after the facts have been released and slammed into everyone face! He said the families should not seek jail terms and should use the report to "move on", while he may be correct to an extent what is the point of "one side" moving on when people like him would be happy if things stayed like they were in the bad old days, but the fact that he's a man that changed his politicial output when the UUP were on the way down shows you what type of man he really is!

On another note, i am delighted with the outcome of the enquiry i welled up when i listened to the key findings, my only downer is that John Duddy didn't get to read the findings before he passed away at the age of 87, he passed away in May and when i read his story i was deeply saddened that he didn't get to see the findings as the build up to the General Election was deemed more important. You can read more on John Duddy here -
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I am delighted with the outcome as it means now that a huge weight is lifted from the shoulders of the campaigners and to an extent the British Government. I wasn't alive when Bloody Sunday happened, i didn't really know about it until i was 8 or 9 and all my life it has deeply affected me. These were people from my county, my main City and i find the details of the day just harrowing. Lord Widgery and his report have been disgraced and now the good people of Derry can move on. Should they seek justice? Only they can answer that, it would be grossly unfair of me to give my opinion when i am not one of the victims relatives but they can hold their heads high on their dignified campaign!

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God rest the innocent victims, they will never be forgotten.

Both Bloody Sunday the 'Peterloo Massacre' of 1819 mentioned by Patrique are part of the syllabus for GCSE history over here in England. I have done an extensive piece of coursework about Bloody Sunday and it's affects on Northern Ireland, and in my history exam yesterday wrote about Peterloo.

The events at Peterloo are, spookily, remarkably similar to those on Bloody Sunday:

50,000 people had gathered in St Peter's Field in Manchester, wearing their Sunday best, to listen to Henry Hunt and other speakers. There were there to protest peacefully for changes to the unjust electoral system and the terrible living and working conditions of the time.

When Henry Hunt began to address the crowd, a group of part time soldiers from the Manchester Yeomanry was sent in on horseback to arrest him. These soldiers had no experience in working with such a large crowd however, and they found it difficult to reach the platform where Hunt was standing. In their attempt to reach Hunt the soldiers knocked down a woman and killed her young child.

This prompted an angry reaction amongst the crowd and a troop of army soldiers - the 15th Hussars - went into the crowd to 'rescue' the Yeomanry. These soldiers had been drinking all day up to this point.

The soldiers charged into the crowd with swords, killing 11 people and injuring over 400. These events were immediately dubbed "The Massacre of Peterloo" in a reference to the battle of Waterloo a few years earlier.

There was a public outcry but army and government response was one of denial. The events were covered up and all the soldiers were let off charges as their actions were justified as 'dispersing an illegal gathering'. Meanwhile, prominent leaders in the Reform campaign like Henry Hunt were arrested and imprisoned.
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I knew about Bloody Sunday before taking history at school, but during my work on it I became particularly attached to the subject and the outcome of the Saville Report yesterday was therefore important to me.

Perhaps it was having proud Irish roots and being in an English classroom being taught about Bloody Sunday, but I was known to get quite passionate about the subject in lessons.

My classmates were totally ignorant on Irish history yet still felt it necessary to make wise cracks about the IRA and the Troubles.

I actually became very angered and emotional during classroom discussions, because I know how Bloody Sunday has affected so many people and how unjust it is that no justice had been done for 38 years.

I am really happy to see that Saville report has concluded the truth and I hope that the GCSE history course continues to teach English students about Irish history and the shocking events of Bloody Sunday.

Great for the families and the people of Derry. Amazing that they had to wait 38 years and 200 mill cost which could all have been avoided by a simple 'we did murder your people' statement in 1972.

Sami, I was a History teacher for a while. My stupid class mate was called Eamon Phoenix, and some say he is now Ireland's leading historian.

I coulda been a contender.

Mind you in my rage directed elsewhere, I got the date of Peterloo wrong. I actually used Waterloo date, a great Prussian victory.

patrique wrote:Mind you in my rage directed elsewhere, I got the date of Peterloo wrong. I actually used Waterloo date, a great Prussian victory.

It was 1819 I'm sure.

I love history - by far my favourite subject and one that's well worth studying in my opinion.

The Innocent have become the Guilty and the Guilty have become the Innocent.

38 years too late and a major factor in why so many joined the ranks of the Provisional IRA especially after the whitewash of Whidgery.

i have to admit i didnt really appreciate how much this inquiry meant to the people involved - to see their faces and the expressions really brought home how big the 'wrong' was.

Sadly though it wont bring those innocent people back and some Unionists will continue to nit pick and try to antagonize the Nationalist people.

It also makes you wonder what a waste the last 40 odd years have been in terms of the violence and killing and all that crap - ow different would life have been or would their have been another incident that would have triggered the same events that we endured.

bocerty wrote:Sadly though it wont bring those innocent people back and some Unionists will continue to nit pick and try to antagonize the Nationalist people.

I think at this stage the majority of their own squirm at their utterings. Best to totally ignore them and let the neutral here and around the world make their own judgments on them.

As Leitrim's Carl Jung says, There is a lot of class in dignity - there is a lot of crass in indignity .....

Jayo Cluxton wrote:
As Leitrim's Carl Jung says, There is a lot of class in dignity - there is a lot of crass in indignity .....

Will you stop qouting me Jayo FFS.....

I'd agree with everything written in this thread already. I liked the language of Cameron's apology, full and frank.

As others have said these findings must be a great relief to the families. I was particularly touched by the lady that said 'we know he's always been inncocent and now the world knows' referring to her relative (her name escapes me, apologies).

Obviously the costs of the report have been mentioned in the news but I find it such a shame that eveyrone affected by events in the province won't get to reaslise such truths as anything that can go to cementing lasting piece anywhere in the World can only be a good thing.