Best Men of All Time...

I was on funeral duties the other day in an hinterland that encompassed the "Golden Triangle" of Laois,Carlow and Kildare.
As oft funerals go, we repaired to the "Clubhouse" ie: the local ,to disseminate the hero's worth.....

Local opinion indicates that the best county-wise were:

Laois: Tom (Curly) Prendergast....
Kildare: Glen Ryan..An un-vanquishable trier..
Carlow: Tommy Dwyer, He stuck it to Brian Mullins when the rest feared him...

A worthy debate, and worth extending to other parts. Of those mentioned, Ryan was a great warrior and a very fine footballer, although I'd have thought the 2 Larrys could also lay claim to Kildare's best ever (perhaps, though, winning their all-irelands with other counties may have blotted their copybooks!).

5 barry mcgowan
4 sean ferriter
3 brian mcniff
2 martin mchugh
1. Karl lacey

My Tyrone choices would be:

1. Peter Canavan

2. Eugene McKenna

3. Iggy Jones

4. Frank McGuigan

5. Brian Dooher

The big 4 (in various orders) are generally set in stone in Tyrone, but after that there are a number of good candidates. For me, Dooher is as good as any of those.

Thomas Clarke wrote:My Tyrone choices would be:

1. Peter Canavan

2. Eugene McKenna

3. Iggy Jones

4. Frank McGuigan

5. Brian Dooher

The big 4 (in various orders) are generally set in stone in Tyrone, but after that there are a number of good candidates. For me, Dooher is as good as any of those.

all forwards, defenders never really stand a chance when it comes to this kind of debate

OMAR wrote:5 barry mcgowan
4 sean ferriter
3 brian mcniff
2 martin mchugh
1. Karl lacey

is Lacey in there because he is current? Interesting that you have a defender as number 1, usually they dont even make the top 10.

Tony Boyle would surely feature somewhere near the top of the list!!!

bocerty wrote:

Thomas Clarke wrote:My Tyrone choices would be:

1. Peter Canavan

2. Eugene McKenna

3. Iggy Jones

4. Frank McGuigan

5. Brian Dooher

The big 4 (in various orders) are generally set in stone in Tyrone, but after that there are a number of good candidates. For me, Dooher is as good as any of those.

all forwards, defenders never really stand a chance when it comes to this kind of debate

your choice is interesting TC, if only for the fact that i was recently chatting to a mate of mine who i would have an awful lot of time for when it comes to all things football. We were just chatting about all things Tyrone and how the current squad was lacking a few quality players in key positions. Another guy joined the conversation and upon hearing what we were chatting about he said we badly needed to uncover the next Peter Canavan.

My mate pounced on this comment straight away and said 'no we badly need to uncover the next Brian Dooher' effectively saying we had some decent forwards who could get scores (nowhere near the calibre of Canavan though) our bother was we had no one to win the breaking ball in the middle third of the field and create a supply into the forwards.

An interesting point i thought.

1. Brian Mullins
2. Brian Mullins
3. Brian Mullins
4. Brian Mullins
5. Brian Mullins

Parouisa wrote:1. Brian Mullins
2. Brian Mullins
3. Brian Mullins
4. Brian Mullins
5. Brian Mullins

Have you got a stutter P?

Parouisa wrote:1. Brian Mullins
2. Brian Mullins
3. Brian Mullins
4. Brian Mullins
5. Brian Mullins

As I always said about the Dubs, they seldom produced good backs, and even more rarely good forwards!

In all seriousness though, would Kevin Heffernan not appear in there somewhere?

I know what you are saying Boc, but you can be a very good defender but possess very little ball skills. The same doesn't apply up front. Forwards are the stars for a reason!

What would be your own Tyrone top 5?

As for what do Tyrone need, it is stupid for anyone to say that we need to discover the next Peter Canavan, as we may not see his like again in Tyrone in our lifetime. But I do agree with your mate who says that what we need more of are scorers as opposed to workers. And athletes too - we are very small in a lot of positions.

I am unsure as to what exactly Boxty was getting at with the Best Men title. I have a feeling its about good hard men eg Mick Lyons etc. We have had loads of threads about best players.

Parouisa wrote:I am unsure as to what exactly Boxty was getting at with the Best Men title. I have a feeling its about good hard men eg Mick Lyons etc. We have had loads of threads about best players.

I took him at his word, in that 'best' meant best. Perhaps I'm just a linear thinker.

bocerty wrote: Tony Boyle would surely feature somewhere near the top of the list!!!

Agreed, hard to see how Tony Boyle, even despite his injuries, doesn't figure somewhere on this list. The best FF in Ireland in the early '90s, and would be 4th or 5th on my list.

In fairness while I have read extensively and seen grainy images of Heffo, I can not judge him as a player. Same goes for the Foleys, Ollie Freaney etc.

Brian Mullins was probably the greatest player I have seen in a Dublin shirt. He had everything and came back from near fatal injury to do it all again – outstanding. Another favourite was Tommy Drumm – a classy footballer. The great Jimmy Keaveney was (and is) a legend and a great favourite. John O’Leary too was something special but in honesty I would pick Cluxton as my greatest Dublin No 1 of all time – even though Paddy Cullen was very special too.

And no matter what bullshit I read – now or in the past – and lazy analyses of players by sports journalists (and others), to me Ciaran Whelan will always be one of the best players to ever pull on the Blue. A lot of rubbish has been written about the man who was a fantastic and thoroughly consistent player for many years.

Thomas Clarke wrote:I know what you are saying Boc, but you can be a very good defender but possess very little ball skills. The same doesn't apply up front. Forwards are the stars for a reason!

What would be your own Tyrone top 5?

As for what do Tyrone need, it is stupid for anyone to say that we need to discover the next Peter Canavan, as we may not see his like again in Tyrone in our lifetime. But I do agree with your mate who says that what we need more of are scorers as opposed to workers. And athletes too - we are very small in a lot of positions.

TC i wouldnt even know were to start with my top 5, dont remember an awful lot about seeing McGuigan play, never saw Iggy Jones play and yet i know both feature on most Tyrone folks top 5. For me to put them there wouldnt necessarily be a personal opinion.

Thomas Clarke wrote:My Tyrone choices would be:

1. Peter Canavan

2. Eugene McKenna

3. Iggy Jones

4. Frank McGuigan

5. Brian Dooher

The big 4 (in various orders) are generally set in stone in Tyrone, but after that there are a number of good candidates. For me, Dooher is as good as any of those.

As a matter of interest TC, were would Gerard Cavlan appear on your list? he was a quality footballer, great hands great feet and great vision.

He did have some issues and perhaps attitude problems but i always enjoyed watching him

In terms of talent, Boc, I'd say that Cavlan was the most naturally gifted Tyrone player of the last 30 years. Perhaps there may be a bit of bias in there as he is a Dungannon man and was a good friend when I was young, but I'd back up that statement with some reasoning. Peter Canavan also described him as the most gifted player on the Tyrone side in his 2003 book, while Joe Brolly (ironically after a man of the match performance) called him 'the most colossal waste of talent in the game'.

As you rightly say, he had great hands and one of those hang-in-the-air type leaps that meant he could compete with just about any midfielder. He was a natural athlete, agile, great pace and was the ideal size for an intercounty player (6'1 and about 13 stone). He could kick very long and very accurately off both feet, and had great vision and an astute footballing brain as well. Gerald was as good a passer of a ball as I've seen in Tyrone, and I include Brian McGuigan in that consideration. To summarise, from an attacking perspective, he genuinely didn't have any physical weaknesses.

On the flipside, he was never a good tackler and hard graft didn't come naturally to him. This improved a bit under Harte, as you would expect, but he hadn't that high tempo style of game that Dooher, Mellon, McMahon, McGuigan, McGinley, O'Neill, Penrose and all the other half forwards Mickey has used possessed. Despite that, Mickey knew he was too good not to use.

Gerald made his senior debut away to Wexford in the 1993 league, yet was still a minor in 1994. I've always believed that if he had been played int he 1995 AI Final Tyrone would have won that game. Cavlan was an unused sub as Tyrone (or rather Canavan) lost by 1 point, yet 2 weeks later, in the league, he scored 1-6 away to Derry, and a fortnight after that scored 0-8 off Martin O'Connell in Navan. Art McRory's caution in the final in not wanting to throw on a young lad very possibly cost us that AI.

As regards the lifestyle choices, I don't know where the dogfighting came from, but stories of drinking too much at times are not uncommon in people who are naturally very shy. That shyness also doesn't tend to make people leaders on the field, and maybe sometimes saw him drift through games fairly anonymously.

I always liked Gerald, and loved watching him play football. He always looked to be playing a different game to most other players, and always had so much time on the ball. I don't think he could be rated as being one of the Top 5 Tyrone players of all time, simply because the achievements weren't as great as some others, and certainly not as great as his talent warranted. Still, having seen loads of him from underage through to club and county, I can honestly say that I enjoyed watching Cavlan maybe more than any other player I've seen.

Fine post TC, I was always fond of Gerald Cavlan.

Purcell remains at the top of the pile for me and while undeniably the greatest Leitrim man ever Packy would be in my top 3 nationally.

Leitrim homage to marvellous McGarty
By Henry Wymbs

Larry Cunningham is credited with putting Leitrim on the map with his song Lovely Leitrim but the great Packie McGarty had already cornered the market with his marvellous displays for Leitrim and more especially with his province Connaght in the Railway Cup competitions in the late 1950s and early 1960s.

McGarty is the only man with the exception of Christy Ring to have played county football in four decades.

He recalls: “The earliest memories I have of playing competitive football was at a sports day in Mohill in 1944. I was playing for the schoolboys team in a seven-a-side competition which we won. I was delighted and went up to receive my medal but to my surprise I got an envelope with a half-crown in it. Now at that time a half-crown was a day’s wages for my father but it meant nothing to me. I was absolutely disgusted I just wanted a medal.

“I played my first senior game for Leitrim against Offaly when I was 16 in 1949 and finished my career in 1971 at the age of 39.”

Born in Mohill in 1933 into a family steeped in the GAA tradition, McGarty ate, drank and lived football from a very early age.

He said: “My late father Dan was chairman of the Mohill club for a good many years. There was nothing talked about in our house but football. Our home was a meeting place for all local matters relating to Gaelic football and the love of the game was bred into me.

“As kids we did not have footballs just an old sock filled up with grass. There was nothing else for us to do but kick any object that looked like a football.”

McGarty was most surprised at his quick elevation to inter-county status.

He said: “I didn’t have a clue I was being picked for the county. I was only 16 and wasn’t the biggest of fellows but I was told ‘get your kit’ and the next thing I was playing against Offaly. I did ok and got some scores.”

With a Cinderella county like Leitrim it was inevitable that McGarty’s playing days would be marked by the anguish of seeing his team lose time and time again.

McGarty recalls: “It was frustrating at times but we had some good players in the mid-50s like Tony Hayden, Leo Mc Alinden, Columba Cryan and Frank Quinn. We were always seen as just cannon fodder for Galway.”

Galway would keep Leitrim west of the River Shannon for the whole of the ’50s, when the team contested four Connacht finals from ’57 to ’60 only to be beaten on each occasion by a great Galway team.

McGarty was a veritable ball of energy. He could turn on a sixpence and for sheer football ability and skill he had no peers in the country.

He said: “Galway had Sean Purcell, Mattie Mc Donagh and a host of other good players. I always felt we gave then them a run for their money, especially in ’58 when they beat us by only two points. That Galway team should have won more in the ’50s; they were certainly as good as the three-in-a-row team of the ’60s.”

McGarty emigrated to England in 1958 to work for London Transport but his talent was too good to ignore and the county board flew him home for all the big games.

He said: “I worked in London from 1958 to 1964 and played for the Tara team. I was well known on the football scene by then and sadly suffered a really nasty injury when an opponent struck me a deliberate blow to the face which left me in hospital with 15 stitches.

“My wife was expecting a child at the time and I was too embarrassed to see her in the hospital as I had two black eyes and my face was a mess. I know the thug who did it and to be honest, it put me off football in England.”

McGarty won his only national honours in Railway Cup competitions and fortunately for him he got the chance to show his real worth outside of Connacht.

He recalls: “I was chosen for Connacht at the age of 19 and we won the cup in 1957, ’58 and ’67.

“I loved playing with Nace O’Dowd of Sligo, Gerry O’Malley of Roscommon and all the Galway lads. This cup was important to me coming from a very small county. It was the only chance you had of showing off your skills. Leitrim had some fine players as well at this time like Cathal Flynn, Josie Murray, and Jimmy O’Donnell.

“In 1964 I was selected to play in the President Kennedy games in New York. There were two from each province picked to travel — myself and Gerry O’Malley from Connacht and some other big-name players. I met some great people in America and it made me realise what the game meant to them.”

Centre forward on the GAA Centenary team of players who never won an All-Ireland and now retired from his shop in Clondalkin in Dublin McGarty welcomes innovations such as the qualifier system.

He says: “It’s good for the game especially teams like Leitrim. In our time emigration didn’t help. Most of the players now are based in Dublin and with collective training and easier travel. Players are much fitter. The young Leitrim players of today must have pride in their jersey, be confident and try to make the breakthrough like Donegal, Derry, Tyrone and Armagh.

“In my time we always seemed to lack self-belief and confidence. I enjoyed every minute of my football and you know I am getting more awards now than I did when I was playing. If I were starting out now I would do it all again-only this time I’d be streetwise enough to maybe win an All-Ireland.”

bocerty wrote:

OMAR wrote:5 barry mcgowan
4 sean ferriter
3 brian mcniff
2 martin mchugh
1. Karl lacey

is Lacey in there because he is current? Interesting that you have a defender as number 1, usually they dont even make the top 10.

Tony Boyle would surely feature somewhere near the top of the list!!!

Nothing to do with recent

Lacey was the best player in the land this year
Was in my view the best defender in the land last year and may well have taken Donegal to the holy grail a year earlier if only for his Untimely departure.
In 2009 he got an all star for man marking the best that the Meehans, Bradleys, etc could throw at him. He did something similar in 2006 and in between any Timegaps were more the lack of oppurtunity caused by those around him.

So he has man marked and come out on top against nearly every marquee forward in the last ten years, he is central playmaker and ballcarrier, he has reinvented himself from nippy corner back to a game controlling CHB. On top of this he chips in half a dozen scores and correct me if im wrong did not kick a wide.

Player of the year
Twice as many all stars as any other donegal man.

No.1 by a stretch. Anything to the contrary is halycon misty eyed romanticism

The complete footballer




Was n

I'd agree with all that Omar says about Lacey, and would probably have him on my best team of the last 25-30 years. The only other Donegal player that would be in the running would be Martin McHugh, but Lacey would be ahead of him in my book.

TC always enjoyed watching Cavlan, his vision and ability to put a ball on a sixpence were at times breath taking. Granted his propensity for work maybe didnt measure up to others but i think if he were to increase his appetite for work the other side of his game would have been affected.

Him and Enda Muldoon were similar players in my view very languid style but could anything with a ball, had great hands and great feet. You can coach workrate into any man but the skill those guys had cant be taught

Being egged on by a dear friend I'm posting this.....wrong thread and all that.

1. Johnny Geraghty (Galway)

2. Robbie O'Malley (Meath)
3. John O'Keeffe (Kerry)
4. Tom O'Hare (Down)

5. Paidi O'Sé (Kerry)
6. Gerry O'Malley (Roscommon)
7. Philip Jordan (Tyrone)

8. Brian Mullins (Dublin)
9. Jack O'Shea (Kerry)

10. Sean O'Neill (Down)
11. Sean Purcell (Galway)
12. Packy McGarty (Leitrim)

13. Colm O'Rourke (Meath)
14. Tony McManus (Roscommon)
15. Matt Connor (Offaly).

Now Dan it's in print...Your call legitimised..Forever.

A worthy selection, despite the strong provincial bias. I'd only strongly object to Tony McManus. Fine player though he was, to see him in a forward line lacking names such as Canavan, Cooper, Sheehy and Spillane, can only be deemed an error. While the others wouldn't all make my cut, you can put forward a strong case for any of them.

Boxtyeater wrote:Being egged on by a dear friend I'm posting this.....wrong thread and all that.

1. Johnny Geraghty (Galway)

2. Robbie O'Malley (Meath)
3. John O'Keeffe (Kerry)
4. Tom O'Hare (Down)

5. Paidi O'Sé (Kerry)
6. Gerry O'Malley (Roscommon)
7. Philip Jordan (Tyrone)

8. Brian Mullins (Dublin)
9. Jack O'Shea (Kerry)

10. Sean O'Neill (Down)
11. Sean Purcell (Galway)
12. Packy McGarty (Leitrim)

13. Colm O'Rourke (Meath)
14. Tony McManus (Roscommon)
15. Matt Connor (Offaly).

Now Dan it's in print...Your call legitimised..Forever.

Not even a good side. Is this off all time??? Paidi on it - and in a half back line - are ya mad??? A Leitrim man - are ya mad??? You could take any one of Dublin's last 3 keepers to beat your pick too. Your front six is so far off reality it belongs in Leitrim.