Tyrone GT news

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Re: Tyrone GT news

Post  mugsys_barber on Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:08 pm

I agree with most of the comments that have been made regarding our Captain Brian Dooher. He certainly was an inspirational character to have on this team over this past 17 years or so but Father time has caught up with him i doubt. Harte wrongly played him against Meath in '07, he had the opportunity to step down in '08 having lifted Sam for the third time and was more than poor in Croke park V Cork in '09 and against Dublin last year. His first half performance on Sunday was reasonably good but his handling and pass selection in the second was shocking - I ask the question of Had it been Mickey Coleman, Mickey Murphy or Raymond Mulgrew making those types of errors would they still be on a Tyrone panel never mind the starting 15. Unfortunately blind faith in him will cost us big time in 2011. Dooher was a magnificent servant but time to call it quits - thank you.

Other older members of the panel played very well such as Gormley, O'Neill, McGuigan, Jordan and McManamin. Davy Harte again was poor and Sunday porved that Cassidy and Cavanagh cannot play in midfield together as they both have similar attacking traits. We probably need at least one of Hub or Colm Cavanagh to mix things up a bit. Again McCarron was found wanting, I can't for the life of me understand why he was on McManus who he was roasted by in the club championship two years ago. Personally would much rather see McCaul or Carlin starting ahead of him. mark Donnelly had a sound debut but the conditions suited his direct running style as defenders found it hard to tackle him without him going to ground. On a dry day Mark might not get as many frees. Hopefully both McMahons will be available for the Donegal/Cavan match as direct replacements for Dooher and Davy Harte, with McCaul in for McCarron.
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Re: Tyrone GT news

Post  Thomas Clarke on Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:27 pm

I agree with almost all of that Mugsy, with the exception of McCaul/Carlin in for McCarron. Not saying that McCarron should stay, but Carlin was awful when he came on on Sunday, and McCaul is an athlete, not a footballer. Who should come in there, well, if Justy plays int he full-back line, you can put in another wing back. McNabb would be my choice if fit but, if not, then take I'd be tempted to give Sean O'Neill a start at RHB and see how he responds. If we play with Joe McMahon as a sweeper, this would give him the room to push forward a bit. As an alternative, you could play Peter Harte there, or even try McNally of Coalisland. Carlin is still worth considering, but he looked well off the pace on Sunday, which is a shame after a very good 2010.

Further up, yes, neither Sean Cavanagh or Cassidy will contest the ball in midfield, meaning that either Hub or Colm Cavanagh has to start. Take your pick, and bring the other on after 50 minutes. Mark Donnelly is playing as well as he can right now - that is him at his best. He was worthy of his start, and deserves another chance, but I'd like to think that someone else will have forced their way ahead of him by the time we are finished in Ulster.

As for Dooher, well, he isn't going to quit. Canavan and Chris Lawn knew when it was time to go, and even Jordan and O'Neill are very aware of their limitations as they get older. But not Dooher. The unshakeable self-belief that transfromed an average, under-sized minor into a double all-ireland winning captain will, unfortunately, prevent him from seeing that his time is up (in fact, as you pointed out, it was up 3 years ago). Mickey Harte, however, must recognise it. In an era where video analysis is used and statistics on every player are pored over, Mickey knows that Dooher was awful on Sunday. But the question is, will he drop him?
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Re: Tyrone GT news

Post  mugsys_barber on Tue Jun 07, 2011 4:08 pm

All of what your saying is very true TC and I take your point on McCaul. I noticed from the programme that neither McNabb or McNally were on the first 26 on Sunday. I'll get a chance to see McMenamin, McNabb, O'Neill and my favourite player of all time McCarron Razz tomorrow night against us in a club game.

I believe Mickey will possibly allow the county players play on wednesday night but not sure what is happening from Sunday onwards - In fairness to Mickey he has given the clubs some grace this year, Perhaps the June first round fixture has helped this.

All in all the Dooher saga will rumble on, I know that reports from the Tyrone training sessions are that he is as determined as he ever was but unfortunately hasn't the body to take him where he wants to go and this is causing him much frustration. I must admit to having nothing but admiration for his past achievements, but anyone re-analysing that game on Sunday or the Meath game in '07 or Cork '09 or Dublin '10 would say that change is required and a celebrity appearance at the end of a game that has been more or less won is what it should boil down to at this stage. Thats my opinion anyway but will Mickey drop him?? - I don't think so somehow, he has invested so much faith in him at this stage and Dooher has provided him with great service and loyalty, but it has to be sending out the wrong signal to others trying to break into the first fifteen like Girvan, Coney, McKenna etc etc.
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Re: Tyrone GT news

Post  Thomas Clarke on Tue Jun 07, 2011 4:17 pm

I agree, and expect Dooher to start against Cavan/Donegal. In fact, my biggest fear is that he has a reasonably good game, or at least improved on his Monaghan performance, as that would then secure him in the side for 2-3 more outings after that.

I agree totally re. Meath 2007 (in fairness, he wasn't fit in that game, and shouldn't have been started), and the Cork game of 2009 was awful. I was amazed he was back again in 2010, and I seem to recall the Dublin goal coming from him not being able to win a ball that should have been his. Same thing happened on Sunday for one of Monaghan's last points - unfortunately Dooher, as good a ball winner as we have seen in recent years, is no longer able to even securely win a ball.

There were encouraging signs against Monaghan, and a first 15 with the McMahons instead of Dooher & Davy would make a big difference, but we'd still need someone like Coney to come from nowhere and emerge as a force in attack if we were to go beyond an Ulster title. Still though, O'Neill, Cavanagh, McGuigan, Gormley, Jordan all in good form, and that bodes well for a successful Ulster campaign.
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Re: Tyrone GT news

Post  GAA-Fan on Tue Jun 07, 2011 4:38 pm

How well is Mulligan playing? Havent watched Tyrone this year. Will watch the Tyrone v Monaghan game later.
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Re: Tyrone GT news

Post  mugsys_barber on Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:21 pm

GAA-Fan wrote:How well is Mulligan playing? Havent watched Tyrone this year. Will watch the Tyrone v Monaghan game later.

I thought Mulligan was playing reasonably well throughout the national league and on that form should have possibly been in line for a start. He has however been kept out of the team by Mark Donnelly from Carrickmore who didn't do anything wrong last Sunday. Mugsy's club wouldn't be going all that well this year and he didn't help their cause either by receiving a straight red in a boxing match with the Cavanaghs and Moy in general. If the cccc decide to analyse the incident at the end of the game last Sunday he also could be in line for a spell in the stands for the county but he might just have got away with what he done....

He did score a good point when he came on and expect he'll be there or there abouts when we meet Kerry in September Very Happy
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Re: Tyrone GT news

Post  bocerty on Wed Jun 08, 2011 1:40 pm

i appreciate the sentiments expressed on here regarding Dooher and i cant say i would argue an awful lot with what has been said, though at the same time its somewhat frustrating to see him being spoken of in the way he is.

In his defence i can say for a fact that after 2008 he expressed a desire to pull the pin and go out on a high, he was told to sit on his hands and not do anything rash by Mickey. Several months of extreme pressure ensued where every man on the panel was on to him about staying on and he eventually bowed to that pressure even though he had been told by several consultants he wasn't fit to play. Same thing happened at the end of last year and i would say only for certain tragic non footballing events at the start of this year he would be gone, but i get the feeling he said he would give it one more go for Mickey in light of what happened on that awful day.

Mickey is a stubborn man and i would be more worried that Davy Harte is still making the starting 15 with consummate ease.

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Re: Tyrone GT news

Post  Real Kerry Fan on Wed Jun 08, 2011 1:44 pm

I havent seen Brian Dooher,only in highlights this year so I cannot judge his form That said let nobody criticise a fantastic footballer and marvellous servant to Tyrone football.Let him go when he wishes as he has earned that right.
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Re: Tyrone GT news

Post  Thomas Clarke on Wed Jun 08, 2011 2:12 pm

Real Kerry Fan wrote: Let him go when he wishes as he has earned that right.

To quote one of your own legends, 'The circus is over, and it's time for a new act'.

A player like Brian Dooher, who has achieved so much with fairly limited natural ability, is unlikely to ever know that his time is up. The single-mindedness that took him so far means that he is unlikely to view things in the way, for instance, Canavan did in 2005. That decision on how long he stays in the side, no matter what he has achieved, is not his to make. It is Mickey Harte's call, and he owes it to the other players to make it.

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Re: Tyrone GT news

Post  bocerty on Wed Jun 08, 2011 4:04 pm

Thomas Clarke wrote:
Real Kerry Fan wrote: Let him go when he wishes as he has earned that right.

To quote one of your own legends, 'The circus is over, and it's time for a new act'.

A player like Brian Dooher, who has achieved so much with fairly limited natural ability, is unlikely to ever know that his time is up. The single-mindedness that took him so far means that he is unlikely to view things in the way, for instance, Canavan did in 2005. That decision on how long he stays in the side, no matter what he has achieved, is not his to make. It is Mickey Harte's call, and he owes it to the other players to make it.


he owes Dooher a fair bit too TC!!!!

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Re: Tyrone GT news

Post  Thomas Clarke on Wed Jun 08, 2011 4:15 pm

So what are you saying Boc, that Dooher should not be dropped because of what he has contributed in the past?
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Re: Tyrone GT news

Post  Boxtyeater on Wed Jun 08, 2011 11:44 pm

The McMahon brothers gave Tyrone a huge boost tonight (Wed) by returning to action with their club.

Joe and Justin both played the full hour for Omagh in their Division One league tie against Carrickmore at Healy Park.

Joe, who suffered a double fracture of his jaw in a club game a few weeks ago, played at midfield, while his younger brother, now fully recovered from a hamstring injury, figured at centre back.

They both missed last weekend's Ulster SFC win over Monaghan, but are very much in the frame for the semi-final clash with the winner of this Sunday's tie between Cavan and Monaghan.

Press Association

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Re: Tyrone GT news

Post  bocerty on Thu Jun 09, 2011 4:13 pm

Boxtyeater wrote:The McMahon brothers gave Tyrone a huge boost tonight (Wed) by returning to action with their club.

Joe and Justin both played the full hour for Omagh in their Division One league tie against Carrickmore at Healy Park.

Joe, who suffered a double fracture of his jaw in a club game a few weeks ago, played at midfield, while his younger brother, now fully recovered from a hamstring injury, figured at centre back.

They both missed last weekend's Ulster SFC win over Monaghan, but are very much in the frame for the semi-final clash with the winner of this Sunday's tie between Cavan and Monaghan.

Press Association


the press association omitted the fact that Omagh were stuffed in this game 3.17 - 3.01 so not sure if Joe an Justys return to action was as umpires/linesmen or actually on the field of play

Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

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Re: Tyrone GT news

Post  bocerty on Thu Jun 09, 2011 4:16 pm

Thomas Clarke wrote:So what are you saying Boc, that Dooher should not be dropped because of what he has contributed in the past?

not at all TC but its a sticky one - Denis Walsh of Cork was lambasted for bringing down the curtain on the career of O' hAilpin in a somewhat premature manner not too long ago so in some ways i find it refreshing that Mickey has afforded Dooher the respect he deserves in not casting him to one side like managers tend to do when the heat is on.

But i appreciate your point too that it is perhaps holding others back.

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Re: Tyrone GT news

Post  mullins on Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:37 pm



Sleep
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Re: Tyrone GT news

Post  Jayo Cluxton on Fri Jun 10, 2011 1:00 am

I expected a bit of a slugfest between Armagh and Down. All the ingredients were there - derby, Down AI finalists, Armagh - chomping at the bit, a horrible evening weatherwise. Instead we got one of the best games of the C'ship.

Last Sunday in similar conditions we got a crap game. Why is this? There is no enmity between Tyrone and Monaghan that I know of??? Leaving out the Dooher arguments, Mickey's loyalty, selections etc would ye all not agree it was a crap game? Why was it riddled with yellows and a couple of reds? Seriously if it was Kerry or as used to be the case Dublin there would be reams written. But there was fook all comment. Why is this?

I am serious here - not winding. If I paid in to see that I'd have felt hard done by tbh.

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Re: Tyrone GT news

Post  Thomas Clarke on Fri Jun 10, 2011 9:02 am

I would agree with that Jayo. The conditions were poor, as was referee Graham Reilly, but still, the match was very dead.

I'd put the majority of the blame on Monaghan's shoulders for this, as they made little or no attempt to win the game. You'd question if they even believed that they could win it. Tyrone deserve some criticism also for not pushing on and beating them by 12 points.

The difference in this game and Armagh/Down was that both those sides went out to play football, and both believed the game was there for the taking. Monaghan didn't. Their entire gameplan was to disrupt Tyrone's better players (in particular, Clerkin's abuse of Cavanagh was a disgrace, but several others were at it too), and hope to get a lucky break or two on a wet day. Add to that the fact that the game was over as a contest after 25 minutes, and you had the scenario of Tyrone fending off a poor opponent, keeping them at arm's length, and never really looking in danger. That we only won in the end by 2 points is a concern.

I guess the lesson is that if you want to see a good match, don't watch Monaghan. Seriously, I can scarcely remember a decent game they've been involved in in the last few years, and their negative tactics seem to have been maintained under Eamonn McEneaney. As Dublin/Laois also proved, you need 2 positive sides to have a decent spectacle.
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Re: Tyrone GT news

Post  Jayo Cluxton on Fri Jun 10, 2011 2:23 pm

Now that you mention it TC Monaghan v Derry is about the only game in the last 3/4 seasons involving the Farney that was entertaining.

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Re: Tyrone GT news

Post  RMDrive on Fri Jun 10, 2011 3:52 pm

Jayo Cluxton wrote:Now that you mention it TC Monaghan v Derry is about the only game in the last 3/4 seasons involving the Farney that was entertaining.

July 2008. Monaghan beat Donegal by 1 point in an absolutely cracking game of football. Donegal 0-15 Monaghan 0-16.
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Re: Tyrone GT news

Post  mugsys_barber on Sat Jun 11, 2011 8:01 pm

Justin McMahon suffered a re-occurence of the hamstring injury that sidelined him for the Monaghan game and is now a major doubt for the Tyrone V Donegal/Cavan clash.
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Re: Tyrone GT news

Post  mugsys_barber on Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:18 pm

S O'Neill has left the Tyrone panel, the squad got together last night following Sundays defeat but O'Neill opted to train with his club instead prior to their league game with Killyclogher on wednesday night and doesn't intend to return to the Tyrone squad for the remainder of 2011.
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Re: Tyrone GT news

Post  Thomas Clarke on Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:35 pm

Are you sure about that Mugsy?

Just wondering, as Antrim's Sean O'Neill made the same announcement today, leaving the panel to concentrate on soccer. Would be a hell of a coincidence if 2 Sean O'Neills made the same decision on the same day.
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Re: Tyrone GT news

Post  RMDrive on Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:40 pm

Hard to belive that he would walk out at this stage. Although Mugsy has contacts doesn't he!!
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Re: Tyrone GT news

Post  mugsys_barber on Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:06 pm

Thomas Clarke wrote:Are you sure about that Mugsy?

Just wondering, as Antrim's Sean O'Neill made the same announcement today, leaving the panel to concentrate on soccer. Would be a hell of a coincidence if 2 Sean O'Neills made the same decision on the same day.

TC I'd be pretty confident that my information is 100% although I'm sure Mickey will be on the blower to try to convince him to hang on in there to keep together a training panel of 35-40 men.

The difficulty is that for players like O'Neill who was named on the first 26 but wasn't used the first 20 on Sunday is that as Tierney from Laois puts it they become "Disillusioned". Davy had another medicore day on Sunday (the countrys talking about it for gods sake), Dermy Carlin was injured so I'm sure even Red Sean thought he would see some game time and didn't. It also unearths another problem in that when this current team eventually does take its dying breath there isn't a foundation in place of tried and tested younger players to take up the torch. I honestly thought that Mickey would have taken something from Armagh's demise but has opted to play safe instead of taking a gamble on the likes of new talent like Coney, Girvan and McKenna and certainly questions this conveyor belt of talent myth. Sticking with Dooher and Davy on the starting 15 is sending out the wrong signal to others trying in vain to break into the team.
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Re: Tyrone GT news

Post  bocerty on Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:35 pm

mugsys_barber wrote:
Thomas Clarke wrote:Are you sure about that Mugsy?

Just wondering, as Antrim's Sean O'Neill made the same announcement today, leaving the panel to concentrate on soccer. Would be a hell of a coincidence if 2 Sean O'Neills made the same decision on the same day.

TC I'd be pretty confident that my information is 100% although I'm sure Mickey will be on the blower to try to convince him to hang on in there to keep together a training panel of 35-40 men.

The difficulty is that for players like O'Neill who was named on the first 26 but wasn't used the first 20 on Sunday is that as Tierney from Laois puts it they become "Disillusioned". Davy had another medicore day on Sunday (the countrys talking about it for gods sake), Dermy Carlin was injured so I'm sure even Red Sean thought he would see some game time and didn't. It also unearths another problem in that when this current team eventually does take its dying breath there isn't a foundation in place of tried and tested younger players to take up the torch. I honestly thought that Mickey would have taken something from Armagh's demise but has opted to play safe instead of taking a gamble on the likes of new talent like Coney, Girvan and McKenna and certainly questions this conveyor belt of talent myth. Sticking with Dooher and Davy on the starting 15 is sending out the wrong signal to others trying in vain to break into the team.

Mugsy if his performance tonight was anything to go by he is no loss i can assure you he was woeful tonight. I dont think MH has any faith in red Sean to be honest from what i hear. And from speaking to another guy who used to manage him at club level he would be of the same opinion. Carlin is palying some stuff for us at the minute and i would start him at wing back instead of Davy or Red Sean.

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