Liam Hayes.....is he Patrique?

patrique wrote:In today's Sunday Tribune Hayes has some interesting debating points.

Under a sub heading "Mickey Harte's gift is to take what appear to be
ordinary players and turn them into supermen who out work and out think
their opponents".

His main "example" is Colm Cavanagh but he does have lines such "did any
of us think Joe McMahon would last more than a month at inter county
level" and other lines such as "we can be pretty sure that Colm
Cavanagh, Joe McMahon and Brian Dooher for starters would never have had
inter county careers if they had been born outside of Tyrone".

interestingly he then uses my other argument of assessing things on
"paper". He says the Monaghan mid field of Clerkin and Lennon SHOULD
totally destroy Colm Cavanagh and Hughes, who he labels Mutt and Jeff,
and then comes the million dollar question, as asked by Thomas Clarke
and others this week.

"So how did a street fight turn into a cake walk for Mutt and Jeff?".

Hayes answer is simple. "Discipline, clear instruction, simplicity of execution (Brian McGuigan?) clear headedness, work rate".

Now before everyone rushes to denounce Hayes as well as me, it should be
remembered that he was the ONLY journalist to foresee the coming of
Monaghan in 2007, and the ONLY journalist to tip Tyrone for Sam early in
2008.

But I wish he would stop plagiarising my ideas.

bocerty wrote:Didnt see the article P - i would agree that Colm Cavanagh looked anything like an intercounty footballer until this years championship started.

But as for the other 2 you mention i would strongly disagree - Dooher made his debut for Tyrone seniors in 1996 and in his first year won Ulster Footballer of the year, that wouldnt strike me as being an indicator that he wouldnt have made it in any other county.

McMahon is very under rated in my book i have seen him play football from a very early age and he has always been a natural footballer IMO - his biggest problem is he is so versatile he never gets to settle in one position, but there arent too many i would swap him for

bocerty wrote:Didnt see the article P - i would agree that Colm Cavanagh looked anything like an intercounty footballer until this years championship started.

But as for the other 2 you mention i would strongly disagree - Dooher made his debut for Tyrone seniors in 1996 and in his first year won Ulster Footballer of the year, that wouldnt strike me as being an indicator that he wouldnt have made it in any other county.

McMahon is very under rated in my book i have seen him play football from a very early age and he has always been a natural footballer IMO - his biggest problem is he is so versatile he never gets to settle in one position, but there arent too many i would swap him for

patrique wrote:Talk of the McMahon's individual greatness set me thinking again.

The club championship. Bar Errigal Ciaran, featuring Tyrone's undoubted indivdual star, Tyrone clubs have a very poor record in the competitions.

Now at club level one star player can be enough. DJ Carey, Joe Canning, Gooch and Muldoon spring readily to mind.

So you would imagine a club with TWO McMahon's would be well nigh unbeatable, except by a club with say TWO McGuigans and Kyle Coney.
Yet these clubs cannot win a county title let alone an Ulster or All Ireland.
Perhaps hayes is right.

patrique wrote:Talk of the McMahon's individual greatness set me thinking again.

The club championship. Bar Errigal Ciaran, featuring Tyrone's undoubted indivdual star, Tyrone clubs have a very poor record in the competitions.

Now at club level one star player can be enough. DJ Carey, Joe Canning, Gooch and Muldoon spring readily to mind.

So you would imagine a club with TWO McMahon's would be well nigh unbeatable, except by a club with say TWO McGuigans and Kyle Coney.

Yet these clubs cannot win a county title let alone an Ulster or All Ireland.

Perhaps hayes is right.

patrique wrote:Talk of the McMahon's individual greatness set me thinking again.

The club championship. Bar Errigal Ciaran, featuring Tyrone's undoubted indivdual star, Tyrone clubs have a very poor record in the competitions.

Now at club level one star player can be enough. DJ Carey, Joe Canning, Gooch and Muldoon spring readily to mind.

So you would imagine a club with TWO McMahon's would be well nigh unbeatable, except by a club with say TWO McGuigans and Kyle Coney.

Yet these clubs cannot win a county title let alone an Ulster or All Ireland.

Perhaps hayes is right.

RMDrive wrote:Will a "Tyrone are shoite" statement make this silly poster go away?

Jonsmith wrote:

patrique wrote:Talk of the McMahon's individual greatness set me thinking again.

The club championship. Bar Errigal Ciaran, featuring Tyrone's undoubted indivdual star, Tyrone clubs have a very poor record in the competitions.

Now at club level one star player can be enough. DJ Carey, Joe Canning, Gooch and Muldoon spring readily to mind.

So you would imagine a club with TWO McMahon's would be well nigh unbeatable, except by a club with say TWO McGuigans and Kyle Coney.

Yet these clubs cannot win a county title let alone an Ulster or All Ireland.

Perhaps hayes is right.

All this from the man who constantly tells us that winning "baubles" has nothing got to do with ability or greatness?

bocerty wrote:

patrique wrote:Talk of the McMahon's individual greatness set me thinking again.

The club championship. Bar Errigal Ciaran, featuring Tyrone's undoubted indivdual star, Tyrone clubs have a very poor record in the competitions.

Now at club level one star player can be enough. DJ Carey, Joe Canning, Gooch and Muldoon spring readily to mind.

So you would imagine a club with TWO McMahon's would be well nigh unbeatable, except by a club with say TWO McGuigans and Kyle Coney.

Yet these clubs cannot win a county title let alone an Ulster or All Ireland.

Perhaps hayes is right.

Who else did Errigal Ciaran have?

this post is laughable - to suggest one man could drag 14 other team mates to an Ulster title or and ALL Ireland - FFS P your getting worse

patrique wrote:

RMDrive wrote:Will a "Tyrone are shoite" statement make this silly poster go away?

Oh my God.

I knew it was all above your head.

The whole point is Tyrone were GREAT and still might be.

How, with what on paper appears to be INDIVIDUALLY a weak line up, is the question here.

Sometimes I wonder.

Does the Tribune sell many copies in Donegal?

OMAR wrote:

patrique wrote:Talk of the McMahon's individual greatness set me thinking again.

The club championship. Bar Errigal Ciaran, featuring Tyrone's undoubted indivdual star, Tyrone clubs have a very poor record in the competitions.

Now at club level one star player can be enough. DJ Carey, Joe Canning, Gooch and Muldoon spring readily to mind.

So you would imagine a club with TWO McMahon's would be well nigh unbeatable, except by a club with say TWO McGuigans and Kyle Coney.
Yet these clubs cannot win a county title let alone an Ulster or All Ireland.
Perhaps hayes is right.

Patrique - It would be fair to say that some of you logic has merit, some is stretched some is straw clutching but I have to say trying to gauge a players ability by reference to his success at club level takes the biscuit for absolute manure.
Its a fifteen man game and an exceptional player in a bad team is not going to win
a provincial medal

DJ carey won one county final - I don't recall him winning a provincial or AI.
Pat splillane and his 9 all stars never won a county title with his home club despite having a couple of county playing brothers.

RMDrive wrote:

patrique wrote:

RMDrive wrote:Will a "Tyrone are shoite" statement make this silly poster go away?

Oh my God.

I knew it was all above your head.

The whole point is Tyrone were GREAT and still might be.

How, with what on paper appears to be INDIVIDUALLY a weak line up, is the question here.

Sometimes I wonder.

Does the Tribune sell many copies in Donegal?

Ad hominem. Sad but not unsurprising.