Mickey Harte's Column in Today's Irish News

I don't normally make a point of reading his column but I thought this weeks was interesting - unfortunately i don't have a copy of the full thing as i don't subscribe to the site - but Mickey is making a case for the League and Championship to be linked, in that your finishing position in the league would dictate your seeding for the championship draw.

He says that the idea of no semi finals in the national league means that very early on teams know they are not going to make the final and so the competitive edge is gone. He also argues the point for provincial winners to be given a second chance in the championship - he says the 4 provincial winners should be paired together in an open draw with the 2 winners playing the last 2 teams left in the qualifiers. His idea is to restructure the qualifiers.

For example based on the league just completed Ulster would read 1 Derry 2 Tyrone 3 Monaghan 4 Donegal 5 Armagh 6 Down 7 Fermanagh 8 Cavan and 9 Antrim. In the preliminary round Cavan would play Antrim and the winner would go to q/f were they would meet Derry. Tyrone (2) would play Fermanagh (7), Monaghan (3) would play Down (6) and so on. The loser of the preliminary round would enter the first round of the qualifiers.

The preliminary round losers from each province would play off in an open draw and the winnders go forward to the second round qualifiers were would they would in the same pool as the q/f losers from Ulster & Leinster and the s/f losers from the other two provinces. The 8 winners would then play each other in an open draw with the 4 winners from that playing each other in the 4th round to leave 2 successful teams. These two teams would join the beaten s/f from Ulster and Leinster and the beaten finalists from Munster Connaught. These 8 remaining teams would play off until there are only 2 left who would then play the two remaining provincial winners.

I think there is some merit in what he is saying but i would be interested to here the views from my fellow gaatipster brethern....................

nice one RM thanks for that

bocerty wrote:nice one RM thanks for that

No worries. It's an interesting idea all right. IMO it's inevitable that this type of change is coming. It's just a matter of when.

from reading your first comment RMD i have to point out that i see three problems:

1. how can you rate Monaghan above Donegal when Donegal played div1 football? is it because Monaghan went up and Donegal went down or because you think 2nd in Div 2 is better than 7th in Div 1?

2. if it was to be conducted the way you used in your example then the likes of Derry/Tyrone will always be the top 2 seeds as they very rarely do bad in the league and get relegated while the likes of Antrim are probably always going to be seeded 9th. in Connaught and Munster you will always have the same two teams (Mayo/Galway& Cork/Kerry) as top 2 seeds meaning you are more than likely going to have the same final every year unless an upset takes place.

3. it still does not give the provincial champions a 2nd chance. instead of playing a team from the qualifiers and being knocked out after one loss they are just playing another provincial champion and being knocked out.

other than that it does seem like a good idea to link the league and the championship somehow but i just dont agree that this is the way.

I know this aint your idea, im just directing this post at you cause you asked for our views

In theory, this should result in the 16 bottom teams according to current League form making up the second round of the Qualifiers. Of course, there could be a number of ‘upsets’ or giantkilling acts, and consequently a highly ranked team could find themselves in the Qualifiers at this stage, but it is likely that the majority would follow the expected pattern. This method would have the distinct advantage of giving developing counties a realistic chance of making progress and not suffering any humiliating defeats.

don't agree with him here as the biggest deafeat anyone had last year was us in the Leinster Final, this to me is the big boys looking after themselves.
Wexford haven't have to play a prelimary match in Leinster for the last 4 years because we have been in the Leinster semi-final or better for the last 5 years, so mickey's system IGNORES a counties champ run instead concentrates on the league which a lot of counties use to trial players.

Meanwhile, there would be two beaten semi-finalists in Ulster and Leinster plus the beaten finalists in Munster and Connacht to join them in making a total of eight again. An open draw for the fifth round would reduce this to four and the sixth round would reduce this to two and then the beaten finalists in Ulster and Leinster would provide their opposition (seventh round) to eventually leave the two best qualifiers who would have to meet the beaten provincial champions (eighth round) in order to re-enter the All Ireland series proper.

is this the unbeaten two provincial champs plus the 2 qualifiers or if the qualifiers win do we go to round 496 to let the beaten champs back in.

The benefits could be
(a) higher value placed on League positions equally valid across each province;-agree but to what avail
(b) better weighting given to provincial success and, consequently, more of a ‘knock-out’ mentality prevailing within the provinces; - No because you league form dictates where you enter the champ not if you are the defending provincal winner
(c) more realistic chance for developing teams to make progress without the risk of demoralising defeats; popppycock (my word of the moment) all this does is stop the big boys been drawn together in a qualifier earlier such as this yeat because either Cork/Kerry Armagh/Tyrone could possibly face one another in round 2 of the qualiers think of it one of the top teams gone homer early this wouldn't happen with mickeys system
(d) it would create a more level playing field for teams from Ulster and Leinster, where their beaten finalists enter at a more advanced stage than those from the provinces with a smaller number of counties. Though a provinal final is a provincal final there are 4 of them and tradionally if you won you were entitled to an all ireland semi final. that would mean that they are equal so by entering munster and connaught teams earlier would tyhat not devalve those provinical finalist comnpared to the other 2??

I doubt if Mickey Harte writes this nonsense.

Probably one of the regular reporters, as the standard is poor.

Mickey just gets the cheque.

Patrique you may be right that a reporter writes the actual column however surely Mickey is providing the content in some shape or form, and I don't think the standard is too bad - but then I am not an intellectual like you are - were I would be reading the Sunday World you'd probably be reading the Sunday Times.............

Also i was more interested in hearing in what you thought of Mickeys idea for changing the qualifier system than i was in anything else..............

Bocerty, as the Godfather was fond of saying "What did I do to deserve such disrespect?"

The Sunday TIMES? Murdoch owns that, and Sky and the Sun and the rest. No Murdoch products for me.

So how am I going to see the European Cup Final today?

PS: When it comes to the Irish News there is one long s5tanding reporter for GAA who puts me off.

I confess the paper has improved in recent times.

thats great but you still havent answered the original question