Dan Martin

Bet wishes to adopted son Dan Martin who takes a 17 second lead into final stage of Volta De cataluyna into Barcelona after a very impessive win earlier this week in a moster stage in Pyrenees

Martin Wins

It is sad how tainted the TDF has become in the mindset of passive sports fans. Ireland with 2 in top 20 of a truly global event not split by weight distance, discipline just pure speed and endurance.
Should be sport in its purest form and something we should be grasping much more than if a 34 year old gets picked in swansong of his career for a friendly or the transfer market for next years Murdoch league or a 3 page spread on foiling catamarans. Alas our niave days of cheering Kelly and Roche mark 1 are halcyon.

OMAR wrote:It is sad how tainted the TDF has become in the mindset of passive sports fans. Ireland with 2 in top 20 of a truly global event not split by weight distance, discipline just pure speed and endurance.
Should be sport in its purest form and something we should be grasping much more than if a 34 year old gets picked in swansong of his career for a friendly or the transfer market for next years Murdoch league or a 3 page spread on foiling catamarans. Alas our niave days of cheering Kelly and Roche mark 1 are halcyon.

Ah, the children of today, suffering for the sins of their fathers (in Roche's case, literally).

A first stage win for an Irishman since 1992.

Great achievement for him, what happened with Team Sky after? Last i saw some looked like they really struggling to the point of hitting the wall & Frome was 'caught in a Movistar sangwich' as Sean Kelly said!

Great result and Pyrenees certainly a happy hunting ground for Martin.
Froomes to lose his bludgeoning of the field on the first sight of hills a level of dominance not seen since a certain Texan held court. My views on Froome have been previously documented.

I did see a journo comment on twitter last night and i quote "Frome showed superhuman resolve and strength, we all know what that is likely to mean!!"

great day fro Martin and great to see it too. He had too much in the sprint for Fuglsang, i'm sure he was expecting more of a response when he made his break but Fuglsang was busted and had nothing in the tank.

What is the feeling on Froome - he says he is 100% clean and adamant that the sport has turned a new leaf and whilst i want to believe him i cant help but think the efforts he put in yesterday and the day befor when he won the stage just aren't human.

Was out on the bike myself yesterday and we were just discussing his performance from Saturday, he literally blew the field away. A few of the guys in the group who are cycling veterans are convinced he is at the same chit as Armstrong and moreover they are sure that Wiggins was at the same carry on last year, and that the main reason he is not riding this year is down to that very reason.

The great thing about extreme high altitude training is that it's not exactly on the TGV line for doping control testing and these guys train where you need to hire a Sherpa.

OMAR wrote:The great thing about extreme high altitude training is that it's not exactly on the TGV line for doping control testing and these guys train where you need to hire a Sherpa.

Do our suspicions extend to the 2 irishmen?  Or, to phrase it better, to what extent are we suspicious of the 2 irishmen?

Thomas Clarke wrote:

OMAR wrote:The great thing about extreme high altitude training is that it's not exactly on the TGV line for doping control testing and these guys train where you need to hire a Sherpa.

Do our suspicions extend to the 2 irishmen?  Or, to phrase it better, to what extent are we suspicious of the 2 irishmen?

I'll be honest TC, it'll be a long time before i trust top level cyclists again! I have relatives that are competitive cyclists in Australia at a high level who don't trust the elite of their own sport, doesn't say much for the whole of the sport eh?

I hope that things have improved. I don't follow it closely enough, in terms of analysis to fully benchmark times. It's hard to do as weather wind direction etc can also impact. There is an amazing soundtracked piece on you tube of Pantani sprinting up Alpe dheuz at 24kmph (for the hard bit) which compares to my local club where 26/27 is a typical flat pace for the leisure section of an amateur cycling club. What was more amazing was this time was beaten by LA. I think current average pace of the tour and times on the marquee stages are slower than 5 years ago but for how long. It would be fairly safe to assume if we see times from armstrongs peak close to repeated then something is badly wrong. On a scale of 1 to 10 (10 being highest) I'd give Martin benefit of doubt with a 4, Roche 6 - for anyone that has heard him cross examined by Owen Mcdevitt re McQuiad or supporting Contador he makes a poor witness. Froome for me is a 9. The level of improvement in 36 months is astounding and I expect if not for team orders last year he would have destroyed the field in the Mountains like only a Lance has done recently.almost Every single HC mountain stage win where the winner has destroyed the field in the last 30 odd years has been disproved, so what is Froome doing different on Saturday. And maybe my score on Martin is blinkered because he is likeable when you look at his performance in the Voletta.

Froome's improvement has been remarkable but so far that's the only case against him.

Himself and a Spanish rider Cobo came from nowhere to fight out the finish out of the 2011 Vuelta. Cobo hasn't really been heard of since.

Loyal2TheRoyal wrote:Froome's improvement has been remarkable but so far that's the only case against him.

I think a positive test for Froome would be an absolute hammer blow for the tour. It would paint SKY in such a poor light, and cast huge doubt over everything that Brailsford has built on both road and track. SKY's bankrolling of British cycling has been a massive boost for the sport during its darkest hours, and cycling really needs this fairytale to be true.

I wonder did he ease off in last sector of Time Trial. He was leading at penultimate split.
Suddendly becoming the best TT man and beating specialist Tony Martin would surely have drawn some curiosity from even the most optimistic supporters.
It does feel to me that we are not even seeing how much better he really is.

Froome sprints away from contador up mont ventoux.

OMAR wrote:Froome sprints away from contador up mont ventoux.

Sometimes in sport, we rush to hyperbole, such is our desire to see new champions usurp those of yesterday.

However, I won't, as I don't think that Froome's performance today was any more impressive than others I've seen down the years (e.g. Armstrong, Pantani, Ullrich, Riis, Contador, Delgado, Virenque....)

Thomas Clarke wrote:

OMAR wrote:Froome sprints away from contador up mont ventoux.

Sometimes in sport, we rush to hyperbole, such is our desire to see new champions usurp those of yesterday.

However, I won't, as I don't think that Froome's performance today was any more impressive than others I've seen down the years (e.g. Armstrong, Pantani, Ullrich, Riis, Contador, Delgado, Virenque....)

seemed a bit unnatural TC to have that burst of speed not only to get away from Contador but also to go past Quintana - though it seemed he ran out of gas moreso than Froome getting away from him.

Read a few articles lately that suggest Froomes stats are on a par if not better than Armstrong when he was 'winning Tours'  surely that can only suggest one thing.  One of the articles i read suggested it wasn't physically possible for any cyclist to reach the levels Froome is reaching without 'help'.

bocerty wrote:

Thomas Clarke wrote:

OMAR wrote:Froome sprints away from contador up mont ventoux.

Sometimes in sport, we rush to hyperbole, such is our desire to see new champions usurp those of yesterday.

However, I won't, as I don't think that Froome's performance today was any more impressive than others I've seen down the years (e.g. Armstrong, Pantani, Ullrich, Riis, Contador, Delgado, Virenque....)

seemed a bit unnatural TC to have that burstof speed not only to get away from Contador but also to go past Quintana - though it seemed he ran out of gas moreso than Froome getting away from him.

Read a few articles lately that suggest Froomes stats are on a par if not better than Armstrong when he was 'winning Tours'  surely that can only suggest one thing.  One of the articles i read suggested it wasn't physically possible for any cyclist to reach the levels Froome is reaching without 'help'.

Agree totally, which was the point I was making.

The only thing in Froome's favour is that he is with Team SKY. SKY's organisation, professionalism and financial resources seem to be at a different level to everyone else, and perhaps this is what is giving their riders an advantage. Having said that, I find it very difficult to give benefit of the doubt to any cyclist.

Thomas Clarke wrote:

bocerty wrote:

Thomas Clarke wrote:

OMAR wrote:Froome sprints away from contador up mont ventoux.

Sometimes in sport, we rush to hyperbole, such is our desire to see new champions usurp those of yesterday.

However, I won't, as I don't think that Froome's performance today was any more impressive than others I've seen down the years (e.g. Armstrong, Pantani, Ullrich, Riis, Contador, Delgado, Virenque....)

seemed a bit unnatural TC to have that burstof speed not only to get away from Contador but also to go past Quintana - though it seemed he ran out of gas moreso than Froome getting away from him.

Read a few articles lately that suggest Froomes stats are on a par if not better than Armstrong when he was 'winning Tours'  surely that can only suggest one thing.  One of the articles i read suggested it wasn't physically possible for any cyclist to reach the levels Froome is reaching without 'help'.

Agree totally, which was the point I was making.

The only thing in Froome's favour is that he is with Team SKY.  SKY's organisation, professionalism and financial resources seem to be at a different level to everyone else, and perhaps this is what is giving their riders an advantage.  Having said that, I find it very difficult to give benefit of the doubt to any cyclist.

i'm trying to give him the benefit of the doubt but the stats arent adding up for me. To be able to do what he did at the end of the longest stage and the 'worst' climb so far begs too many questions for me.

As i said before my cousins mate works in the lab that does all the testing and he says they are all at it, the reason they are getting away with it is they are a step ahead of the testing processes and he included Wiggins in that statement.

Team Sky have offered to hand over all their team data to WADA to prove their innocence but i dont know what that proves to be honest. If he is doping the data wont make one blind bit of difference.

[quote="Thomas Clarke"]  Having said that, I find it very difficult to give benefit of the doubt to any cyclist.[/quote]

Thinly veiled "Bocerty was in the bus for most of last year's fund-raiser" from TC.... Scandalous.

i had to laugh at Froome yesterday trying to blame Contador for his close call on the last descent, Froome was chasing him down the descent and both men ended up off the bikes with Froome accusing his rival of taking too many risks - as my mother used to say if he stuck his hand in the fire would you do the same??????

a bit pathetic i thought.



Mind you i laughed harder when i heard one of the competitors has pulled out of the Tour as he has a mental issue with the fast descents - FFS is only realising now he has an issue with going downhill on a bike, next thing he will be looking the stabilizers off

Got off his bike and still won taking the proverbial at this stage.

Predict he will stop for wine and cheese tomorrow and then win double Alpe Dheuz

Though tactically his objective tomorrow will be to not lose material time to Contador.
Very interesting to see what the times are for the ascent - a real bellweather with the top ten times.

Pantani,Armstrong,pantani, Armstrong, Pantani, ulrich, Landis,Kloden,ulrich, Virenique, mayo, Kloden
all tainted which takes you to 39 17. Inside 40 also are Riise, Bugno,Zulle - indurain only big name under 40 with no hard proven doping.
Contador and frank schlek 41/42 both tainted - maybe Greg lemons 48 is a proper benchmark.
Cadel Evans Did 41'46 and is so far untainted.
Anything inside 42 tomorrow raises serious questions

However with the double climb it is probably not relevant to compare.

OMAR wrote:Got off his bike and still won taking the proverbial at this stage.

Predict he will stop for wine and cheese tomorrow and then win double Alpe Dheuz

Though tactically his objective tomorrow will be to not lose material time to Contador.

Froome nervous about tomorrow. Doesn't like going downhill...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jul/17/chris-froom-tour-de-france-stage-17

Omar, can you clarify Lemond's time on the Alpe? Surely it wasn't 48 mins?