Putting the professionals into quarantine

I was reading this morning that John Heslin, who returned recently from a 6 month stint with AFL club Richmond, was the star performer for Westmeath U21s in their challenge match against Longford on Tuesday night.

Is it just me, or is there something very unfair about sides fielding a lad, in an underage amateur game, who has just returned from a 6 month stint living and training as a professional athlete? It's not just Heslin either, as I've always thought it a joke that Tadgh Kennelly, a career professional athlete, can return to Ireland every September and play intermediate club football for Listowel. Due to the intense training they have undergone, these guys have a clear physical advantage over their team-mates and opponents.

I don't mind lads playing part-time soccer but, in my opinion, if you have been working as a fulltime professional athlete (AFL, soccer, rugby, whatever...), then you should not be allowed to step straight back into life as an amateur gaelic footballer.

I'd suggest some sort of quartantine period, possibly equivalent to half the time that you were playing professionally, capped at 6 or even 9 months. A lad who has been away for 6 months needs to sit out for 3 months on his return or, someone like Tommy Walsh or Kennelly would need to sit out 9 months, effectively ruling them out of the next intercounty season.

I know it is important that the GAA provide football/hurling for everyone, but it is also important that this is done on a fair basis. Anyone else any thoughts on this?

Harsh in the extreme. Quarantine talk makes them seem like animals! Is it not good to have such lads back playing GAA? I see nothing wrong with it and unless there is a change of rules there is nothing illegal in it.

I would think the years of service given at underage to your club gives you the right to play for them no matter what you choose to do as a profession.

Parouisa wrote: Is it not good to have such lads back playing GAA?

Good for who? Certainly not the lads playing agianst them, who haven't spend the previous 6 months training 3 times a day.

I agree that it is good to see them return, but I would strongly advocate a 'cooling off period' (if you don't like the use of quarantine), to level the playing field.

JS, irrespective of what service anyone gives at underage, I think the duty of fairness has to be given to the other association members, for than to th individual concerned. The opponents who are unfairly disadvantaged, or even the team-mate who will forfeit his place in the side, deserve primary consideration. What someone does for a living should not normally count, but being a professional athlete surely flies in the face of training/playing as an amateur?

I just don't agree with the whole concept.. Saying someone is too fit or well conditioned to play an amateur game doesn't sit well with me. If David Givney trains in a top of the range Gym in Dublin every day week under a conditioning coach paid for by the Cavan County Board is that an unfair advantage on the Junior lads he plays against? I know that is within the organisation but the advantage is similar.

I just don't think it right that a club should be robbed of their best assets when they make themselves available because these lads have taken an extra step in their sports careers. A step no doubt built on hard work and training done at that club over a decade or more.
Heslin for example scored 2-6 for St. Loman's in his last game before leaving for Australia. It would be galling for them to be without him for 3 months because of his time in Australia.

I would also assume that it would put more pressure on players like Heslin. They know that quitting the Australian Rules could rob them of a year playing GAA and feel forced to stick at something they are not at all happy with.

Jonsmith wrote: I would also assume that it would put more pressure on players like Heslin. They know that quitting the Australian Rules could rob them of a year playing GAA and feel forced to stick at something they are not at all happy with.

Seriously JS? Being deprived of playing gaelic football for 3 months (or even a bit longer) is going to make a lad stay on in Australia when he is desperate to leave? The GAA is great, but let's not be so naive as to think that it is the reason Heslin is coming home.

By way of comparison, I can't think of any physically intense sports where amateurs can compete on an equal footing with professionals. (Are the Klitschkos heading to London 2012?)

GAA intercounty athletes are not as big, strong, fast or fit as the elite from aussie rules. Is this because Australians are naturally a bigger race? No, it is because the professionals are able to do nothing but eat, sleep and train 3 times a day in state of the art facilities. No GAA player who has a full-time job has this luxury. Now, take it a step further, as in the case of Kennelly and Listowel, and compare the professional to an intermediate club player, and the gap is huge.

Considering that if a student go over to the USA on a j1 during the summer and plays a bit of Gaelic Football or hurling over there he then has to sit out a month of action for his club when he returns home there is some logic to TC point.

Would be harsh on young Heslin though. What happens if a promising young players gets a youth contract to play soccer in England or a development contract with one of the provinces but didn't make the cut after a year, would the same apply to them

TC if a Tyrone player or club player for that matter returned after a year of training in the AFL would you say no to letting him play if you were manager? I think in today's game every manager will use whatever means they can to gain an advantage. McKeever gave Clarke a welcome home when he came back in the NFL 2 seasons ago and was taken off.

GAA-Fan wrote:TC if a Tyrone player or club player for that matter returned after a year of training in the AFL would you say no to letting him play if you were manager?

Yes, I would, for the reasons I outlined above.

Thomas Clarke wrote:

GAA-Fan wrote:TC if a Tyrone player or club player for that matter returned after a year of training in the AFL would you say no to letting him play if you were manager?

Yes, I would, for the reasons I outlined above.

I understand your concern TC but I could never see any manager in any sport saying no to a player that could bring some advantage to a team. Returning players that have played sport can also have a negative effect on teams to. What would your views be on players who have careers as fitness coaches?

I disagree GF - there are many managers who say no to talented players for very many reasons.

A career as a fitness coach is very different - you are not being paid to train and develop yourself, rather you are being paid to train and develop others. Yes, many fitness coaches have greater access to gyms etc, but they aren't full time athletes.

I can appreciate the "advantage argument" but if you extend the logic are you therefore saying that if someones proffession gives them an advantage they should serve a "period" until the advantage reduced.

What if a player from the six counties elected to serve in the special forces SAS-SBS for example. (ignoriing any political principle) or say a player serving with the French Legion - or as mentioned above on a more relvant level proffessional fitness coach or even PE teacher - where do you decide that the career gives an advantage ?

Thomas Clarke wrote:I disagree GF - there are many managers who say no to talented players for very many reasons.

A career as a fitness coach is very different - you are not being paid to train and develop yourself, rather you are being paid to train and develop others. Yes, many fitness coaches have greater access to gyms etc, but they aren't full time athletes.

I would say with confidence that they would still hold an advantage in some aspects of playing gaelic football. I dont think there is a big problem with playing the odd professional player the differences between players will be soon reduced. Playing at a higher level will never replace natural ability.

OMAR wrote:I can appreciate the "advantage argument" but if you extend the logic are you therefore saying that if someones proffession gives them an advantage they should serve a "period" until the advantage reduced.

What if a player from the six counties elected to serve in the special forces SAS-SBS for example. (ignoriing any political principle) or say a player serving with the French Legion - or as mentioned above on a more relvant level proffessional fitness coach or even PE teacher - where do you decide that the career gives an advantage ?

I'm pretty sure the French Foreign Legion aren't doing 15yd shuttle runs.

A poor example Omar, comparing army training with professional sports training. Obviously a child of the John Maughan era!

OMAR wrote:I can appreciate the "advantage argument" but if you extend the logic are you therefore saying that if someones proffession gives them an advantage they should serve a "period" until the advantage reduced.

What if a player from the six counties elected to serve in the special forces SAS-SBS for example. (ignoriing any political principle) or say a player serving with the French Legion - or as mentioned above on a more relvant level proffessional fitness coach or even PE teacher - where do you decide that the career gives an advantage ?

Pretty much the point I was scrolling down to make.

It doesn't even need to be as extreme as the army examples, take the contrast between somebody working a block-layer, or as as a GAA development officer (plenty of county players seem to get this role) versus somebody working an office job, or a sales rep who's work involves 3-4 hours of driving per day.

OR what if a player is on the dole, and decides to follow a professional training regime during that time, surely that gives them an advantage over someone who is working?

Looks like I am on my own on this one, but I'm still convinced that you are all deluded if you think that a gym instructor, PE teacher or anything of that sort is being remotely conditioned like a full-time professional sportsperson! Still, I'll agree to disagree!

black&white wrote:

OMAR wrote:I can appreciate the "advantage argument" but if you extend the logic are you therefore saying that if someones proffession gives them an advantage they should serve a "period" until the advantage reduced.

What if a player from the six counties elected to serve in the special forces SAS-SBS for example. (ignoriing any political principle) or say a player serving with the French Legion - or as mentioned above on a more relvant level proffessional fitness coach or even PE teacher - where do you decide that the career gives an advantage ?

Pretty much the point I was scrolling down to make.

It doesn't even need to be as extreme as the army examples, take the contrast between somebody working a block-layer, or as as a GAA development officer (plenty of county players seem to get this role) versus somebody working an office job, or a sales rep who's work involves 3-4 hours of driving per day.

OR what if a player is on the dole, and decides to follow a professional training regime during that time, surely that gives them an advantage over someone who is working?

Certainly. That's why Dublin done so well last year.

Thomas Clarke wrote:Looks like I am on my own on this one, but I'm still convinced that you are all deluded if you think that a gym instructor, PE teacher or anything of that sort is being remotely conditioned like a full-time professional sportsperson! Still, I'll agree to disagree!

Nobody is saying that a gym instructor, etc. is conditioned to the same degree as a professional Aussie Rules player, just that it's an extension of the same logic.
The average block-layer gets a decent work-out by being doing their job, whilst an office worker would need to spend a few hours in the gym to get the equivalent benefits.
It's the same principal in action, i.e. your profession is providing an advantage. If you choose to punish one person for picking a certain profession (sportsperson) then it's opening a huge can of worms.

black&white wrote:

Thomas Clarke wrote:Looks like I am on my own on this one, but I'm still convinced that you are all deluded if you think that a gym instructor, PE teacher or anything of that sort is being remotely conditioned like a full-time professional sportsperson! Still, I'll agree to disagree!

Nobody is saying that a gym instructor, etc. is conditioned to the same degree as a professional Aussie Rules player, just that it's an extension of the same logic.
The average block-layer gets a decent work-out by being doing their job, whilst an office worker would need to spend a few hours in the gym to get the equivalent benefits.
It's the same principal in action, i.e. your profession is providing an advantage. If you choose to punish one person for picking a certain profession (sportsperson) then it's opening a huge can of worms.

The big difference, of course, is that one is earning a living by playing a professional sport, and then returns to play an amateur sport.

Block-laying is a bit different, id've thought.

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